Pentair Intellicenter keeps dying

[Killer Squirrel]

I had the IntelliTouch full load center that I bought and installed about 6 years ago and it worked great till about 10 months ago when ants got inside and killed it. I opted to get the Intellicenter upgrade kit (i10ps) and after several months of backorder I finally got one and installed it. Got it fully set up, firmware updated and it ran for about 2 days then just died. No response, screen dead, cannot connect via app, nothing. I ended up getting it warrantied through the vendor that I purchased it from, waited another couple months for another backorder and installed the new entire kit with new transformer, main board and expansion board. Same thing, updated firmware, got it fully set up with all my equipment and addons, and it worked perfectly for about 2 months. Then blam, died again, same thing as last time. I called Pentair and they actually sent me out a new board, to which I got it installed and it lasted about a week. Funny thing on this is that they only sent the main board so I used my expansion board from the last one - the expansion board was never recognized by the new board so I guess whatever happened took out the expansion board as well?? I don't know what is going on, it is clearly installed correctly or it wouldn't run in the first place. I have it on a dedicated 15A GFCI/AFCI breaker in my load center (sub panel), and my main panel at the pole has a surge protection unit on it. I have verified that the transformer is still putting out voltage. I've read where some others have had issues with this board dying and wondered if there is anything else I can do to protect it so this doesn't keep happening?

I am referencing this thread in particular. @ogdento were you able to determine anything else on the board you looked at? I am now in possession of 2 dead Intellicenter boards and can solder/replace parts if I know what I am looking for. I have some electronics experience but not enough to troubleshoot the entire circuit on my own. If you have any tips or things I can do to check my boards out I would greatly appreciate it! I just need to figure out what keeps burning these out! I have had some storms around the time of each failure but I was hoping my other precautions would have kicked in and saved it. I am using the wireless connection that comes with the upgrade kit, so no direct ethernet from any of my switches or equipment and I do not have anything connected externally via com ports except the VSF pump and SWG.

@Phil G which .80 part are you referring to on yours?

 

[ajw22]

I have it on a dedicated 15A GFCI/AFCI breaker in my load center (sub panel),

You should not be using AFCI CBs in an outdoor subpanel.

AFCI’s should only be used in instances where arcing in a confined space could happen. This is why electrical code in many jurisdictions now requires that they be installed on all bedroom circuits. AFCI’s should not be used on circuits with high inductive loads like motors.

and my main panel at the pole has a surge protection unit on it.

You should put a SPD in the IntelliCenter subpanel. Although having a Siemens First Surge 140 in my IntelliCenter panel did not prevent a storm blowing out my IntelliCenter board.

Tom looked at my blown board and determined the CPU or memory was bricked.

My belief is the IntelliCenter board components are not sufficiently hardened from EMPs caused by close in lightning strikes.

 

[ogdento]

hey Squirrel, Phil's part was the bridge rectifier for the wifi power port, labelled DA-1 up by the gas heater connector - the part is CDBHM260L-HF... I haven't been able to look at that many dead Intellicenters but I've seen one other board with the same issue. EDIT: the wifi power port has a current limit of 160mA, so the dead DA-1 problems are likely caused by whatever was plugged into it - rather than a surge/lightning.

I've seen a few boards with issues like Allen's where the board won't do anything at all. His won't boot up... and when I use his "main board" (the one with the arm chip, ram, etc) with a known-good "top board" (the one with the comm/power/aux connections) I see no appreciable current draw - it's only about 13mA, which may suggest the processor isn't even starting up (off the top of my head, I think a working panel draws 150-180mA initially on start, and then settles to around 80-100mA). There are a number of power supplies (regulators, converters, etc) on the top board, and at least the one for the comm port (which also powers any accessories) is dead. I've got two other intellicenter boards (an indoor and an outdoor) with seemingly similar issues. And I've got a third that seems to boot but doesn't show anything on the screen - although the screen works on a different panel.

Interesting thing with yours though is that - if I'm understanding correctly - your personality board is dead, whereas Allen's personality board survived whatever killed his outdoor panel. I don't have a personality board to look at, but I recall it having it's own 8-bit pic microcontroller, a unl2803 (or similar) for driving relays, and an rs485 comm chip. Do you have any way to measure the current draw for the panel?

 

[ogdento]

hit "post" too early...

It does seem that Allen is correct about these things not being very durable (not sufficiently hardened). I don't work for an industry that builds electronics, but it does seem like these are too delicate. They're certainly much more difficult to repair than the old - and much simpler - Easytouch/Intellitouch boards. I just got 3 more boards that all have some level of corrosion that I don't recall ever seeing with the Easytouch or Intellitouch, although I've seen a few corroded handheld remotes that likely got wet or were left in a very humid environment. None of the pentair boards - Easytouch/Intellitouch/Intellicenter have any sort of conformal coating which is nice for tinkering/repairing but I don't think it's great for longevity of the device?

 

[Killer Squirrel]

I got both boards apart and took a much closer look and found visible damage. The same chip burned on both boards and looks to be the same chip that also burned on the expansion board. I sent back the very first board that blew so I don't have that one to look at. I have attached several photos for reference. The photo x_1.jpg means from the second board that blew (the one last lasted 2 months) and x_2.jpg is from the 3rd and latest board to go out. Photo mainboard_1b.jpg shows damage that the latest board does not have, a scorch mark that starts (or ends) close to the heater 2 pin connector and then blowing out what looks like a surface mount resistor. Apart from installing a dedicated SPD in the load center I don't know what else to do.

 

[ajw22]

Is your heater connected using the Fireman's switch or RS-485?

I don't think the EMP is getting into the boards through the power lines.

The system has the actuator cables, RS-485 cables, and other wires that act as antennas and can pickup EMF and carry it into the board.

I would look at where your cables are routed and try and move things around. If I continue to blow boards I would try running the wires into the panel inside of grounded metal electrical conduit.

Post pics of your equipment pad.

 

[Killer Squirrel]

Heater control is via fireman's switch attached to the 2-wire heater plug.

All equipment is bonded together at the copper ground rod and the load center is also bonded to the rod.

 

[ogdento]

yuck. The part labelled U16 is part of the 5v power supply, it's a Richtek RT8289, 5A 32V 500kHz Step-Down Converter... it generates a 5vdc output from the rectified 18vac input from the transformer (there are 4 rectifiers above the comm port on the top board... these convert ac to dc, making the 18vac into about 24vdc - which is then fed into the RT8289 on the main board via pin2 on the blue connector). The 18vac and 24vac inputs to the top board go straight through to the expansion board, which has it's own rectifier to convert 18vac to ~24vdc, along with its own RT8289 chip to generate 5v from that 18vac. The 24vac is left alone to drive the valves.

Your mainboard_1b pic shows a blown capacitor... anything with a silkscreen label of Cxx is a cap, Rxx is a resistor, Dxx a diode, Uxx is a semiconductor of some kind etc. The interesting thing is that another member, @nsbenz, has an older thread with a picture a failed boards that has the same blown cap - although I don't recall seeing a picture of U16. I actually have two of his dead boards, but U16 is not blown.

Were there any storms around the failures? It's hard to say whether it was caused by a storm surge/nearby lightning strike, but that's my inclination. The RT8289 has a maximum input of 32vdc, so it's plausible that the maximum input voltage was exceeded, killing the chips on the main and expansion boards... it's hard to say. But it's also interesting that the rectified output (24vdc) also goes to that blown capacitor via pin2 on the blue connector (c25 i think?)... if that cap was only rated for 30v, I can see how it would blow up too.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that pin 7 on the RT8289 - the pin that exploded on all of your chips - is the input.

 

[Killer Squirrel]

Yes, it's possible that a storm was very close to at least 2 of the failed timeframes. I live out in the country and the power is not the most stable. Inside, I have 5 separate UPS's just to handle spikes and blinks on all of my electronics, server, network closet, etc. I can add a SPD to the load center if it will help but I don't know that it will if the Pentair hardware is that sensitive. Is there anything I can do? Am I doomed to just blowing boards? I *may* be able to get Pentair to send me one more board under warranty, but if I have another fail there is very little hope from there on out. I don't really know what else to do at this point... I love the convenience of the IntelliCenter, I have backyard lights, fountains, all sorts of things wired to my load center and relays so that I can control it all with my Home Assistant.

 

[ogdento]

I was thinking about what you could use to eliminate any spikes on the 18vac input (from the system transformer), but it would be good to know if your voltage is actually getting spikes, and what their magnitude is. Allen posted a link to a voltage logger in another thread... it would be a good way to monitor your voltage for a few days/weeks:

Post in thread 'Intellicenter keeps resetting' Intellicenter keeps resetting

I recently read that the 2020 NEC code requires a Type 1 (line or load side) or Type 2 (load side only) SPD on all new dwelling unit electrical services. Probably not a bad thing!

 

[Killer Squirrel]

Is there anything more I can add or change on my pad and/or load center to mitigate the spikes or surges? I can add a SPD to the load center itself, but not sure which one would be ideal for specifically helping the IntelliCenter board since that is my primary concern. @ajw22 do you have any suggestions on a specific brand/model? I have the Square D HEPD80 on my main panel at the pole that feeds all my sub panels. Also, I know I didn't need the AFCI on the breaker, but the combo AFCI/GFCI was much cheaper than just the GFCI breaker itself so I didn't see the harm in it. Is it detrimental to use that breaker in this instance or just unnecessary? I have that breaker dedicated to only feeding the transformer for the IntelliCenter. I know having its own breaker is overkill but I was trying anything I could think of to try and protect that thing...

 

[Killer Squirrel]

Anyone have any ideas on what would be best to put in my load center to help alleviate the spikes that are killing the power IC's on my boards? Also I wanted to ask since I just thought of it - I remember when I was working on the load center before this last intellicenter blew, I noticed even when I turned off the breaker for the intellicenter that the display was still on and functioning. I know that it has an on-board battery and I'm guessing that's what allows it to run like that but I just thought I'd check if that was normal operation for the Intellicenter. Does the display stay on even when the main power has been shut off or do I have some other funky issue I need to be looking at?

 

[ajw22]

I noticed even when I turned off the breaker for the intellicenter that the display was still on and functioning.

That is not correct.

The color touch screen in the outdoor control panel should go dark when the power to the IntelliCenter is removed.

I know that it has an on-board battery and I'm guessing that's what allows it to run like that

The on-board battery just keeps the clock when power is off.

but I just thought I'd check if that was normal operation for the Intellicenter.

No it is not normal.

Does the display stay on even when the main power has been shut off or do I have some other funky issue I need to be looking at?

You need to examine how your IntelliCenter is wired. That may be why you are blowing boards.

 

[ajw22]

Remove the front panel and show us the internal wiring of the Load Center.

Also post larger more clear pictures that can be zoomed in to see details. I can't read the lettering on your CBs.

 

[Killer Squirrel]

I just checked all of the inputs to the Intellicenter board with all powers on except the breaker for the Intellicenter transformer. All of the 2 pin relay plugs, the 4 pin serial coming from the SWG board, the 3 pin actuator plugs, 2 pin ethernet power plug, etc. The only one with any significant power was the 2 pin heater plug, it had ~23.7v.

 

[KevMo]

That is not correct.

The color touch screen in the outdoor control panel should go dark when the power to the IntelliCenter is removed.



The on-board battery just keeps the clock when power is off.




No it is not normal.



You need to examine how your IntelliCenter is wired. That may be why you are blowing boards.

I agree it is not normal for the Intellicenter touch display to stay on when the power is shut off to the panel. However, it happened to me one time where the display stayed on. I could push buttons and the display responded but the equipment was not responding. I have a subpanel at the equipment pad feeding my Intellicenter via a double pole breaker. A few weeks ago I had the Intellicenter door open and the display was on. I turned off the breaker in the subpanel to change some wiring. The display stayed on. I double checked that I had turned off the right breaker in the subpanel. I didn't get my multimeter out, but I am certain the breaker was off. The filter pump stopped running and the lights were off on the pump. I turned the breaker back on and the pump lights came back and it begsn to prime, i turned the breaker back off again and the display turned off. My system is only about 6 months old. I have probably powered down the Intellicenter via the subpanel at least 50 times prior and 5 or 6 times since. It has only ever happened once that I know of. The main board was replaced a couple of months ago after a nearby lightning strike. I chalked it up to some fluke with the board.

 

[ogdento]

@KevMo it's interesting that you and @Killer Squirrel have both seen the panel stay on "with the power off". I can't explain how that would happen!

But I did see a slightly similar behavior the other day... my power supply was set to cut off at 200mA and I tried to power up an Intellicenter. It never actually booted, but the display backlight was on (and flickering a bit), after I shut the power off the backlight stayed on... I couldn't get it to shut off! I powered the board back up and it reset itself.

 

[ajw22]

Tom, I was surprised to see that the IntelliCenter has a larger battery then the typical CR2032 keeping the clock circuits alive.

I wonder what it needs this Lithium battery for?

 

[ogdento]

it's a good question Allen... I was thinking it was just for the clock backup but it could be ram as well... not sure. It's a 3.8 volt 400mAh battery (1.5Wh), which isn't really a whole lot... but most rechargeable 2032 size lithium batteries are 150 to 250 mAh so yeah, not sure why it's oversized.

whenever I've shut off power to an intellicenter (with the exception of when I accidentally underpowered it to start with), the screen has always shut off. But it might be interesting to cut power to the Intellicenter and then see if the arm chip or the ram is still powered up.

 

[ajw22]

Tom, take a look at the battery condition and battery circuits on the failed IntelliCenter boards you have. See if you see any smoking guns.