Pentair IC40 alternatives?

[Mayorb]

As I understand it, and I very well may have been misinformed, a salt cell has a life expectancy of about 10,000 hours.
That's "water running through it" time, not just while it's generating chlorine. I assume that's why the manufacturers sell "dummy" cells, to switch out with the salt cell when water temps get below 65 degrees, and the salt cell won't generate chlorine.
I had a customer buy an off-brand replacement for his IC-40 cell 2 years ago, and it's still working. Less than half the price of the Pentair model, just fyi.

 

[mknauss]

That's "water running through it" time, not just while it's generating chlorine.

That is incorrect. It is Generating Time.

 

[Mayorb]

That is incorrect. It is Generating Time.

Thank you, good to know!
Just curious, what causes them to fail? I've seen dead cells that still look to be in good shape inside.

 

[mknauss]

Several things cause them to fail. Electronics, the rare metals get worn off by being cleaned with acid too much. etc.

 

[Mayorb]

Thanks again!
I was suspecting a "planned obsolescence" thing.

 

[Dirk]

Several things cause them to fail. Electronics, the rare metals get worn off by being cleaned with acid too much. etc.

Those are some causes of premature failure, but the rare metals wearing off the plates happens no matter how well you take care of it. That is the expendable component of an SWG, and that's what drives the ~10K hour lifespan. You cannot baby an SWG to make those metals last longer, you can only abuse it to wear them out sooner.

Marty corrects your idea about lifespan, it is generating time, but that may not be obvious how to calculate. It's generating time, not runtime.

An SWG does not produce chlorine in a variable way. The output setting does not vary the amount of chlorine gas coming off the plates. An SWG only makes chlorine "full blast" or not at all. The output setting is a percentage of time the plates produce per runtime. Here's what I mean:

My SWG cycles every five minutes (other brands might do this slightly differently). If my output setting is 100%, then my SWG makes chlorine (full strength) for five minutes, then repeats that during the entire runtime. But if my output setting is 50%, my SWG makes chlorine full blast for 2.5 minutes, and then it idles off (stand by) for 2.5 minutes, then repeats that every five minutes for the entire runtime. 20% setting would get me 1 minute full blast, 4 minutes of stand by, etc. So...

If you have a runtime of, say, eight hours, at a 50% setting, your SWG will turn itself on and off every X minutes, but during that eight hours it will produce chlorine for only four hours total. It's the four hours that counts against your 10K lifetime hours, not the eight hours of runtime. Put another way, 40 hours at 100% uses up the plates the same as 80 hours at 50%. So...

If you run your SWG 24/7 at 100%, it'll last about 10K hours, or about 1.14 years. But if your pool only needs your SWG for 8 hours a day at 50% (4 hours of generating time), your SWG will last for about 6.8 years.

You can't really skimp to try and get your SWG to last longer. If you balance your water properly (we'll help you with that), you won't need to clean your SWG plates much if any at all. That's the best you can do for it. Your pool will need the chlorine it needs, determined by a dozen or more variables. You'll know how to run your SWG when you know (and we can help you with that, too). So your SWG is going to last how long it's going to last, but that might be more years than you think.

 

[ajw22]

An SWG does not produce chlorine in a variable way. The output setting does not vary the amount of chlorine gas coming off the plates. And SWG only makes chlorine "full blast" or not at all. The output setting is a percentage of time the plates produce per runtime. Here's what I mean:

My SWG cycles every five minutes (other brands might do this slightly differently). If my output setting is 100%, then my SWG makes chlorine (full strength) for five minutes, then repeats that during the entire runtime. But if my output setting is 50%, my SWG makes chlorine full blast for 2.5 minutes, and then it idles off (stand by) for 2.5 minutes, then repeats that every five minutes for the entire runtime. 20% setting would get me 1 minute full blast, 4 minutes of stand by. etc. So...

You need to qualify that blanket statement. For the Pentair IC40 under discussion and most SWGs sold in the US that is true.

The Hayward AquaRite S3 and many SWGs manufactured in Australia, Europe, and China, produce continuous chlorine at a percentage of maximum production. This is changed from the earlier Aquarite systems that produced maximum chlorine on a time basis.

The Aquarite S3 produces chlorine continuously at whatever % setting, at a reduced voltage and amperage.

There are two different electrical designs that are commonly used manage % output. The variable duty cycle with 100% on or off is predominantly used in SWGs designed in the US. The proportional generation method is often used elsewhere.

Our Australian friends SWGs often use proportional generation and we are seeing it in the US with some imported SWGs.

 

[Dirk]

Our Australian friends SWGs often use proportional generation and we are seeing it in the US with some imported SWGs.

Thanks for the added details. I wonder if the SWGs using "proportional generation" get better or worse overall value (actual amount of lifetime chlorine generated per SWG cost)...

 

[PumpinIron]

You're using the Pool Math app, right? It can track more than one pool, and there's more than one way to make use of that feature. Set up at least two "Pools," two sets of test data. One for your pool, and one for your source water (city or well?). You could even have a third for your fill water, after the softener, after it is connected.

Do the full set of tests regularly for your pool and record them in Pool Math, in the "Your Pool" pool data set. That'll be your normal day-to-day, week-to-week test results to help you determine the proper dosing of chemicals.

Then do a partial set of tests for your source water. And again for your softened water. Record each in their own Pool Math pool. This will give you some data for comparison over time, to see how both your source water might change, and how your softener output might change. If you're super curious, you could test your source a few times a year, at least at first. My municipality changes its water source by the seasons, one from a local lake, the other from ground water, maybe even mixing the two sometimes. The chemistries are very different, and affect my strategy for exchanging water (as one has significantly more CH in it). These tests would help you determine if your source and fill water is chemically stable or not, and so help you form your own strategies.

You only need to test a few things for the source and fill. CH mainly. pH if you're having pH issues in your pool. TA if you're having TA issues. Salt if you're curious, but it's not really critical, as your pool is going to gain salt no matter what. You don't need to test for CYA, there won't be any. FC would probably be too low to be of use, and wouldn't affect your day-to-day maintenance anyway, so you don't need to test FC for your source or fill water.

These extra sets of data will give you a good baseline, to help you (and us) determine what is going on with your water and how to correct it when necessary.

It's also a great way to practice with your new kit at first.

PS. After the first few tests, you're going to say "Gee, they were sure right about that SpeedStir!" Have fun.

I have the Pool Math app downloaded but I haven't actually used it yet. Speaking of which, is there a good YouTube or forum tutorial for how to test the water using the TF test kit and plugging the numbers into the app? Since this is my first time doing such a thing I just want to make sure I do it right and don't overthink things (which I have a tendency to do).

I like that idea though of being able to test the pool water, source water (which is well water), etc. Perhaps I will do this.

 

[mknauss]

TF-100's YouTube Channel

 

[PumpinIron]

TF-100's YouTube Channel

Thanks, this is what I needed! I'll report back soon with some numbers.

 

[Mayorb]

Calcium deposits on spillways are not uncommon.
Even with sequestering agents, water that dries above the water line has calcium in it, and leaves scale.
It's easy to confuse this with efflorescence, which usually grows from behind the tile, either through micro cracks in the tile or along grout lines.
For normal scaling (a haze), a light acid scrubbing usually takes care of it if it hasn't accumulated too long. Efflorescence is a different story, it's hard as rock..
That usually requires a glass bead blasting and some elbow grease to remove it.