Pentair EasyTrouch 4PSC, what's included?

[Kaa]

The EasyTouch panel with the SWG integration basically has the IntelliChlor power center preinstalled, but is it connected? That is, will I need to buy and install (another) breaker to supply power to it or it is already wired?

Also, for a new EasyTouch + IntelliFlo VSF install what else would I need to get? The 20A breaker for the pump (e.g. Siemens QF220A), assorted wires and conduit, appropriate plumbing fittings, anything else?

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

Nothing is connected...

Here is a pic of the inside of my ET... You have to add the circuit breakers you want and then wire the system up. Both the large SWCG Transformer and the smaller system Transformer can be wired to 120 or 220 so that is left up to you... (or your installer).

I personally like to have as many individual circuit breakers as possible so that way I can turn off one circuit at a time if I want. As an example I have my SWCG on its own transformers so that I can electrically turn it off.. I also like having surge protector, but have found out that the one I have is not as good as it should be...




As far as the IntelliFlo install... I suggest that you use IntelliFlo pump unions... you can't buy them at home depot.. Well worth the $20 bucks or so..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

Lazy bums

My understanding that the breaker for the SWG power center need not be GFCI, right? Something like Siemens QP series?

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

You are correct, about the breaker anyway... The breaker for the SWCG's transformer does not need to be a GFCI...

Every pool is different, so it makes perfect sense to me that they all get wired up on site...

While you are looking at my ET, notice the SWCG's transformer AC power is routed through the Pump/Filter relay.. Top left with yellow and white wires..

And that the IntelliFlo pump gets power from the pump's GFCI breaker and that that power goes directly to the pump and no where else...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

Yep, I know the pump wants its own private breaker.

Did you run the SWG power through a relay just as a precaution or it's required? Theoretically, the EasyTouch "brain" makes sure that the SWG is on only when the pump is on, no?

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

It is required... If you look you can see the large transformer has a "warning" label on it.. It is just one of several places that tells you to run the power through the pump/filter relay.. This relay is what the "brain" uses to turn the power to the cell off when the pump is not running. The brain just makes sure the relay and the signals to the pump are on the same page...

If you were planning to use that relay for something else, you can't.. You cannot control the pump filter relay like you can the Aux relays.. So in reality, the ET 4 only has three programmable relays.

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

Ah, yes, makes total sense.

 

[Kaa]

Hm, the Pentair manuals want the same GFCI breaker to feed BOTH the pump and the SWG transformer -- I'm guessing to make sure that the SWG doesn't run if the pump trips the breaker.

It also seems that Pentair wants non-IntelliFlo pumps connected to the first relay as well, but IntelliFlo doesn't have to since it has its own control wires:

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

The reason that the SWCG has two safety devices is to make sure it can't turn on if you have a pump failure.

The primary safety device is that the cell will not get power unless the pump/filter relay is closed. The Secondary safety device is the flow switch. So even if the pump/filter relay was closed but the pump was not running, the flow switch would prevent the cell from working.

Most installers use the same GFCI for the pump and the SWCG, (Just like pictured above) but they do it because it is easy and not for any safety reason.. It is not a requirement. The only requirement is that the SWCG transformer is wired so that it won't get power unless the pump/filter relay is closed..

I personally like putting the SWCG on its own circuit breaker.. this allows you to shut if off if needed, and of course would be the only way you could run the SWCG on 120 volts.

If your main pump is a single speed pump it would make sense to wire the SWCG and pump to the load side of the pump filter relay.. If you have any other pumps, they will need to be powered by their own Aux relay...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

So basically by putting the main pump and the SWG on different breakers you gain the ability to easily cut off power to the SWG. The trade-off is that if the pump trips the breaker, you're relying on the flow sensor to shut down the SWG (from the relay's point of view the pump is on, so SWG can run fine). Does that sound about right?

(I see that has been a point confusion before: Wiring Intelliflo Pump to Easy Touch panel & Wiring for the intelliflo vs and the easytouch )

 

[Flying Tivo]

A VSF pum is wire directly from the breakers to the pump, so it is basically always on. The ET is controlling the pump via the COMS. I believe the COMS know if pump is running or not, might be wrong.

Felipe

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

You are correct... You would not on purpose run the system with a tripped breaker, but if it happened you are protected by the flow switch.

Keep in mind that exploding cells are rare... but they do happen. So even if you only had one safety device the chances of failure are slim, but having two safety devices means you would have to have two simultaneous failures to even have a slight chance of an explosion.

Many things can cause the pump not to run and not trip the breaker, so having them on the same breaker only helps if the problem actually trips the breaker.

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

A VSF pum is wire directly from the breakers to the pump, so it is basically always on. The ET is controlling the pump via the COMS. I believe the COMS know if pump is running or not, might be wrong.

Felipe

Felipe,

The ET only knows if the pump is supposed to be running.. It has no clue if the motor is actually turning or not...

In theory, the Pump/Filter relay will only close when the pump is being told to run by the data cable.. AND you need to be in the Pool or Spa mode.

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

The ET only knows if the pump is supposed to be running.. It has no clue if the motor is actually turning or not...

That's probably not true for VSF pumps like IntelliFlo. The pump is variable FLOW, not speed, so there must be a flow meter inside and that data goes back to EasyTouch. The controller should definitely know if the pump is unpowered and very likely knows if the power is on, but the pump is not operational.

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

I suspect not... the EasyTouch just tells the pump what speed or flow to use. All the flow or speed controls are inside the pump.. remember the pump can run by itself without the Easytouch.

You are giving the designers of the EasyTouch way tooooo much credit.

I was under the impression that the VSF was both a VS and/or a VF pump.

I also doubt there is a flow meter of any kind, more likely they just have a table that relates power used to what that equals in Flow.. It would interesting to know for sure...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Kaa]

IntelliFlo has a separate low-voltage control/data cable running back to EasyTouch, so EasyTouch can know everything the pump knows. And IntelliFlo is explicitly marketed as "The pump can adapt to applications between 20 and140 GPM. Simply program the pump to the desired flow rate, and the pump will automatically adjust to operating conditions to maintain that specific flow rate" which means that the pump must know its flow rate which means it must have a flow meter (a power/flow table won't work because head, etc. will be wildly different between different systems).

 

[Jimrahbe]

K,

I can't argue with that theory... I have no clue how it measures flow rate..

I think the point is that if the pump is not working the Pump/Filter relay will still be closed, as the ET does not monitor the pump status to turn the relay on or off.

If you have the pump running and shut off the pump's breaker, the pump will stop (obviously) but the pump/filter relay will still stay closed. The ET "thinks" the pump is still running. I'm sure ScreenLogic will show zero RPM or Flow, but the ET does not have the programing to use this info to shut off the Pump/Filter relay.

Thanks,

Jim R.