Pentair Clean And Clear 420 Cartridge Filter Exploded, Brand New Filter Leaking Help

[Dodger]

When changing zones, the flow is blocked for a second.

In my system, the pressure DROPS by several psi in the transition between zones. I assume water is flowing to both the Before zone and the After zone to explain this. For example, it has 10 pop-ups to flow to during transition instead of 5 within an individual zone.

What in-floor model do you have? Is it a 5-port Caretaker?

 

[Fadderall]

Dodger SORRY MY MISTAKE 38PSI NOT 48PSI.
It jumps about 4-5PSI as it cycles from zone to zone.

Its been some time maybe couple years at least since I had someone take a look at it.
I just looked at the check valve closely. Its a Jandy Check Valve PN 7236-REV. I can see inside with a light and it looks intact. Of course I will open it to check better in morning.

So my running pressure is in low 30's and the spike to high 30's is only momentary when it changes from one zone to another.

So if I do go for the test....
Are you saying to remove each head in a zone one at a time? Lets say I have a swim step zone and there are 4 heads on the step. Should I remove head 1, note pressure, replace head 1, remove head 2, note pressure, replace head 2, etc. until all 4 heads in that zone are tested? I would assume that a head with no drop in pressure when removed means that line is blocked? If there is no change in pressure for all 4 heads then the block is on the whole zone branch?

 

[Fadderall]

Oops just saw your replies while I was typing away.

Yes James the bulkhead connection was fine, just a little persuasion. Like I corrected the pressure was only spiking to the high 30's.

I will look into the pump after getting everything back on line. Could the heater be restricted internally? Is there a descaling process or some way to check internal build up and resistance? We have VERY hard water out here in Las Vegas and I have been known to let the total alkalinity go crazy for long periods.

Dodger I believe it is the 5 port caretaker.

 

[Dodger]

You really should have an external bypass on the heater and a check valve bypass on the cleaner that limits the psi to less than 30.

You are right James. My 5-port Caretaker setup has the 30psi Pressure Relief Valve, circled in red, on a bypass loop similar to this. Depending on the pressure drop after OP's filter, this should be activating at least some of the time if his pressure is that high.

 

[Dodger]

So if I do go for the test....
Are you saying to remove each head in a zone one at a time? Lets say I have a swim step zone and there are 4 heads on the step. Should I remove head 1, note pressure, replace head 1, remove head 2, note pressure, replace head 2, etc. until all 4 heads in that zone are tested? I would assume that a head with no drop in pressure when removed means that line is blocked? If there is no change in pressure for all 4 heads then the block is on the whole zone branch?

You can do that approach later to purge the lines if you want. For now, just remove any pop-up within each zone. The purpose is to see if that improves (drops) the pressure at your filter and then we can define other steps.

You should also be able to take pressure readings from the Caretaker itself. There is a pressure gauge on the dome, and the optimal pressure for cleaning is about 14-20psi. Hopefully that gauge isn't broken.

I am really concerned that your pressure is rising in the transition stage. Makes me suspect that the manifold is broken. Maybe pieces or o-rings are blocking flow. => I would do the second experiment first, i.e. inspect/remove the manifold guts.

Could the heater be restricted internally?.

Our plumbing did not have a heater bypass originally (25+ years old.) Before, the pressure would drop 7-9psi between filter and Caretaker pressure gauges at about 3000rpm on our VSP. After the bypass was installed and the diverter set to in between position (not closing off the heater), we now only see a 2-3psi drop from filter to Caretaker.

 

[JamesW]

I think that the main issue is the pump size. It's just too big for the system.

It works, but it puts excessive pressure and flow on the system.

 

[Fadderall]

Ill look for that pressure release valve near infloor. unfortunately, I am pretty sure the little gauge on the dome is busted. Last I looked it read 10 psi with everything apart. Are you sure you see a drop in pressure? I have to check more carefully tomorrow. I assumed it was the zone change but maybe not.
Ill kick it on tomorrow and let it run through and check all the zones are operating while having someone watch the gauge. The pull some heads out and see what happens. I guess after that I will change out the check valve and maybe open the dome?

Or should I just start with the dome and the check valve?
I have a rebuild kit already for the dome.

James, my biggest fear about the pump is of course the money. I just cannot remember why I went with this pump and I am worried about buying an expensive pool pump and then finding out it is under powered and not being able to return it.

 

[proavia]

I don't recall if anyone asked or you mentioned it previously.... but does the filter pressure gauge return all the way to zero with the pump off? If not, replace the filter pressure gauge and see what the reading are then. You may also wish to consider getting a working gauge for the in-floor distribution valve.

 

[JamesW]

Ok. When you do need to replace the pump, you can go with an Intelliflo which is the same pump but variable speed.

It has the same total hp, but you can dial it down or up as needed. So, no worries about not having enough power.

You really don't need much power to run everything.

In my opinion, 1.25 total hp would be plenty.

The lower power usage would save you a lot of money depending on what you pay for power and how many hours you run the pump per day.

Between the rebates available and the power savings, the cost to replace the pump isn't that much.

Also, the stress on the system and equipment can cause premature failure.

 

[Fadderall]

proavia, yes the gauge goes to zero. It is brand new with the filter and appears to operate well. Good idea on the infloor gauge. I will have to get one.

 

[Fadderall]

I just took off the dome on the caretaker in floor cleaner. I haven't rebuilt in a few years but the mechanism looks perfect inside and the plungers are still pretty stiff. I have a rebuild kit so I am going to put all new parts in, but I dont see anything unusual in the dome.
A question, one of the pipes in the 5 port is full of water and the others are all down at the bottom. Is this normal when opening the caretaker infloor dome? I attached a picture.

I also found what looks like the regulator valve you pointed out Dodger. It is on a pipe right next to the intake for the caretaker. It looks like the same part. I attached a picture, what do you think.

So now should I rebuild and replace the dome or just put the dome back on and see what happens with the pump feeding all the heads at once? Dodger, you mentioned this procedure. Have you done this? Anything I should be aware of in that process.

Gotta get a new band too. The bolt sheared off while I was trying to remove.

Thanks agaiN
BACK PIPE IN 5 PORT FULL OF WATER

IS THIS THE PRESSURE REGULATOR VALVE DODGE WAS TALKING ABOUT?

 

[bdavis466]

That looks like a check valve and it's poorly oriented. The pipe with water in it - does that feed the spa?

I would look at replacing that check valve with a Jandy style valve and rearranging it so its horizontal. I bet thats the reason your spa is draining.

 

[JamesW]

It's a high pressure spring check valve that bypasses the cleaner at 30 psi.

 

[Fadderall]

Im not sure which zone it goes to. Just got back from store with new check valve flapper. Installed.
Now what do I do with the infloor cleaner? Should I start it up with no guts in the caretaker as Dodger suggested?
Pool is really cloudy now from lack of circulation so I cant even see the infloor heads to diagnose anything.

 

[Fadderall]

I just checked the zones. I shoved a hose in the pipe in the back that was full of water and sealed as best I could with a towel. Water cam out in spa. Interesting though, the new Jandy check valve flapper I just put in next to the in floor cleaner I could see water and bubbling under the clear plastic lid when I put the hose in that rear pipe.
So should I just put it all back together or try this turning it on without the pistons and cams in the dome?

 

[Dodger]

I did not rebuild our Caretaker manifold. We hired out for that just a month after we bought this house and we knew anything about the pool.

I have opened it up to inspect before and I can't recall if one or more of the pipes was full of water, but my first guess was also that it may be the spa line. You can tell if it is the spa line because it's the one with a check valve on it just below the dome. It may be buried in your case.

The white valve in your picture is a Pressure Relief Valve, shown here:

Caretaker 5 Port Pressure Relief Valve 1-1-220

Mine is installed horizontally, but I don't have any insight as to whether that is important.

To your question about what to do next. I trust James' diagnosis that the pump is too big. If you are planning to get a new one in the near future and are concerned about the high pressure busting your new filter, then I personally would leave the manifold guts out. That should keep the pressure in the filter lower. You can run the system, filter and circulate your water. You probably won't have much rise from your pop-ups so your floor may not be swept as good as it was before. But you can brush if you need to.

If you rely on the floor system to spill over your spa water and keep it fresh, you'll need to make sure you set up another spillover action.

 

[Fadderall]

Dodger, thanks. It is the spill over for the spa. I have another setting that pumps all water to a spa return and turns the spill over into a water fall. I suppose I could use that once a day to keep the spa fresh. Would not take too long.

 

[Fadderall]

Well the fun keeps on coming. I went to reassemble the caretaker dome and noticed that the center plate (the one that holds the pistons) is cracked and chipped at 3 holes. Unfortunately, I cannot get the screws tight on that side so I have to get new plate before I can test anything.

I filled the spa with a hose and I will see if the level goes down by tomorrow. Hopefully, the new check valve flapper is working.

Whats a good cheap pump?

 

[Dodger]

If I recall, you said you only have pop-ups as returns to the pool. If so, then that spa return is the line that the Pressure Relief Valve must tee into.
That drawing I posted earlier shows "To Pool", but in your case that would say "To Spa".

 

[Fadderall]

Yes normally only the pop ups, there is no return in the pool. I forgot that the spa one is a return. I always thought of it as a water feature since it makes the big waterfall on the spill way. But yes its a return.