pebbletec stained

With the TA at 60, how fast is the pH rising? I personally wouldn't actively lower the TA any further right now. So no aerating - if it drifts down a little with regular MA additions, that's fine.

Let the PB replace the pump and see what he offers as an option to remove the stains/scaling. Let us know what his solution is BEFORE blindly letting him do it. We might be able offer insight based on what he proposes to do.

If the FC is still a little high when the PB tests it next, just tell him you "shocked" it before he arrived. Don't even mention the TFP way to him - these guys are generally clueless as to how to correctly maintain pool water.

EDIT:
Did you add MA between the test yesterday and the test today?
Yesterday you reported a CSI of -0.07
Today you reported a CSI of -0.50
Virtually impossible if you didn't add a bunch of MA. Was the -0.50 actually -0.05?
 
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Make sure you enter all test results, most have an impact on CSI, including cya.

I would, and have, mitigated scale in my pool by using an aggressive CSI. I would spend up to through next pool season managing your CSI and brushing as the first choice. It does not hurt anything to have some scale on your pool surface and there is no hurry to get rid of it. It is strictly cosmetic for now. If it continues to worsen and thicken then that is another story. But, caught early it is ok. Then if you aren't happy do the no drain acid bath. It is not nearly as aggressive as an acid wash.

Many PBs do not know the first thing about water chemistry, let alone CSI, alkalinity and CH. Which is a shame, especially in your area where water is hard and scale is virtually guaranteed if CSI is not managed.

I agree with Gene that TA at 60 is fine. Just manage your pH.

If you have any extra rough spots you can sand them with wet/dry sandpaper to smooth them. 100 to 150 grit.

Ask all the questions you want.
 
thanku proavia and Pooldv! Unfortunately, I had been looking in the wrong place to see if I had replies and didn't see page 3 until now. pb came and left and I made the mistake of talking too much. the VP of construction came out with a company that Paramount sends out. I had tried to give my story to the VP who didn't know about my daughter almost dying during the drawn out pool build and all the mistakes... PB, I believe tries to make things right but have limited knowledge on how to help. In trying to tell my whole story in thinking they may offer to give us some extras besides just a pump (which isn't an extra, it's what they should've given us in the first place), I wanted them to know that one of the things they need to do different is not to tell people that it's ok to only check your pH once a week. they all seem to think it shouldn't raise to 8.2 within a week and think it's odd if i'm adding too much. now i feel like i forget how much i've been adding because i add what the calculator tells me and I've made the mistake of not writing it down. So, he said scaling is only due to calcium and only way to deal with it is to empty the pool. He said if u go to high or too low with pH it can cause other probs with pebble and I later proceeded to get nervous about dropping it to 7.2 and looked on paramount's website to see what i had seen here before, that salt should not have been added to pool within first 30 days (it was added on day 2) and it said nothing about where to maintain chemistry, just that if it's not balanced correctly it voids the warranty. I called them and they weren't there and I researched a bit more on tfps and then was going to start a post under "in the deep end" since I was told to post there when I become a doubting Thomas, but I checked and saw I had posts so here I am.

Since I hadn't seen these posts I made the mistake of telling him I want the stains fixed and he said they should be able to send a diver out. the stains i was referring to are a dirt stain in the corner and the one by the drain. looks like dirt and it's also white, i guess scaling or DE that never made it to the filter? i was not referring to the general scaling that i see in different places of the pool at that time, as they already poo pooed my reasoning of letting the pH rise too often caused it. he said it takes months of leaving the pH high for that to happen.

proavia, i think u did tell me to record when i add ma and i keep forgetting. sorry, i can't remember if i added ma before the 7.5. i think i did because it pH was at 8.0 and I figured I had a couple of days to get it down before pb came out and so i may have written it wrong here. here's my numbers, again, including just what i measured that day. i can include CYA... also, but if i don't measure it daily i wasn't sure it would be accurate:

9-19:
10:30am
82 degrees
pH 8.0
FC=9
TA=60
CSI= -.2

7p i checked pH and it was 7.3/4 after i believe i aerated

9-20 at 1:30pm
temp 87
FC=9
TA=60
CSI= -.5
pH=7.5

9-21 8:11 am
79 degrees
pH 7.8
FC= 9.5 i shut off salt cell at this point as kept lowering it
TA=60

new pump installed

today 9-22 7:20am.
FC=7- salt cell still off
pH 7.8
that's all i figured they'd check today. in trying to lower it to 7.5 i put roughly 8-9 ounces in a beat up bottle with a hole in the top that i have been using to wash my tiles.

now they are not coming back until next thursday. they've asked me to not brush the pool so we can see how it looks. paramount is coming out with them and another company. the psi at the in-floor valve is within range but not quite balanced. i'm getting 18/19 on each zone accept for the smaller one below the steps where I get 22/23. they took out each head to make sure i didn't have any rocks and a couple blew out that they saw. this is the third time in a year they have done this.

i planned to add more acid while i wash the tiles today as i'm also lowering the water level so that i can get all the calcium off, but now i'm worried about going down to 7.2 so i can either start a thread on "in the deep side" or do some more research but i want to make sure i'm comfortable with what i'm doing as far as my pebble (although this may not be often when I have to lower it that far? As you are saying now I don't need to change TA so I don't' lower it, right?).

pooldv, i've seen some of your posts about heating up your pool. i am also going to leave a black hose out to fill my pool as i need more water for now. i'll get tired of doing that and i'm not sure how much heat it'd add, or if it'll be worth the effort for the short term, anyway. the next thing for me is to see if this pump can fit a heat pump on it and still be efficient for the in-floor. also looking into other ways to heat. so far i was told solar isn't the way, gas is too much $ and not so sure about a blanket or rings due to work, storage, and kids...

thx for all your help!
 
one more thing (and if I need to post this on the deep end I can), i read on pebbletec's website (i have calpebble, but same thing basically I've been told), it says, "DO NOT chlorinate your pool until water’s pH and carbonate alkalinity are within the acceptable range. Chlorine is highly reactive and high concentrations can cause metals or minerals to precipitate (cloud water, scale and/or stain)." I'm not sure if they are saying that high levels of chlorine without the balance of pH cause problems or high levels of chlorine period. If a person is not able to catch the pH jump fast enough and keeps their chlorine high, it seems like this is a good reason to be careful of chlorine going too high.

provia, U r a proponent for higher levels of chlorine. How does your pebble look?
btw, they upgraded me to your same pump. i'll update my signature. i had a 1.3 (ish?) horse power and now a 2.5 (ish?pb and hayward told me different numbers).
 
You should do what the people providing the warranty say to do, even if it is wrong. You don't want to give them an excuse.

We set chlorine levels based on CYA level and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. The chlorine/CYA relationship is something that has been known and published since the 1970s yet much of the pool industry doesn't understand it or acknowledge it.

A black hose will make no difference in your pool temp. Solar heat is all about square footage in the sun. A 50' x 3/4" hose has less than 40 sf of sun exposure. Most solar systems are sized to be half the sf of the pool surface or larger.
 
How high are "high levels of chlorine"?

Secondly, the buffering affect of CYA typically negates any adversity with chlorine being high.
FC has been around 9. CYA 50. i just started lowering FC as the pb was out last week and coming out this thursday, again. i saw it's at 3 today so I just put cell up to 100% and I plan on leaving it there for a few hours since it's sunny today.

that's good to know that CYA has a buffering effect, also, for pebble, but according to the chart, for a salt pool, 50 isn't on the chart but it's seems that's still too high if it were. It seems I need to raise CYA to 60.

- - - Updated - - -

You should do what the people providing the warranty say to do, even if it is wrong. You don't want to give them an excuse.

We set chlorine levels based on CYA level and the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]. The chlorine/CYA relationship is something that has been known and published since the 1970s yet much of the pool industry doesn't understand it or acknowledge it.

A black hose will make no difference in your pool temp. Solar heat is all about square footage in the sun. A 50' x 3/4" hose has less than 40 sf of sun exposure. Most solar systems are sized to be half the sf of the pool surface or larger.

pooldv, i must have been mistaken with you looking into heating your pool since u already have that taken care of. solar should take half the pool surface size. that's good to know and is a deterrent for me. :( i wanted to stick a couple on the side of my house perhaps but they probably don't even get enough sun there and I'd only be able to do likely one 12 x 4 panel. i'll post on the heater post u replied to on this topic. thx!
 
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