Pebble Tec Crack

[Noob]

Hello fellow TFP'ers! Please share your expertise or experience. I have a crack in my pebble tec, on the entry ledge by the steps, that has slowly widened over the past 5 years. Current pictures are attached, with a quarter for scale. I searched this forum a few years ago and it seemed like the consensus was that if it was just a hairline crack, the solution could be worse (aka uglier) than the problem; so I just left it alone. Now though, I think that it's probably high time to get it fixed once and for all? The crack has definitely gotten wider in the past two years, and a couple other small hairline cracks have now appeared on the wall right below this crack. My questions for you are:

1. Can I expect the repair to be a relatively straightforward patch job where the cracks are simply filled in? Or could there be more extensive (expensive) work involved that I need to be prepared for? Also, if you happen to have a referral for the Vegas area, I sure would appreciate it.

2. I am currently trying to figure out if I have a water leak and will be doing a bucket test tomorrow. (Lost 1.25 inches since last Sunday, which is historically crazy fast for my pool, and weather has actually been cooler this week.) Could a crack like this be the source of water leaking out of the pool? I'm not the original owner so don't know what exactly is underneath the pebble tec, but I assume it's probably gunite (?), which I know almost nothing about.

Any thoughts or feedback you might have would be super appreciated!

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Usually if the pebble is cracking near an edge it’s a sign that the bench is cracked below it. Common practice is to use rebound when shaping steps and benches. So the problem is that because it was not pneumatically applied it’s just sitting on top of the substrate. Most common with Gunite pools and not as common with Shotcrete pools due to the amount of rebound.
Sorry no references for the Vegas area I’m in SoCal.
Yes this is most likely the reason for your water loss in the pool.

 

[Noob]

Thanks so much for the reply! After googling some of the terms used, I understand what you're saying. Bummer. Well, I'll start with the old bucket test to confirm and then move on from there I guess. I appreciate your help!

 

[Dirk]

Perhaps this was mentioned the last time you posted about it:

Before you apply any patching yourself, or allow anyone else to...

1st step is to determine if it is actually PebbleTec. Do you know? Do you have any proof? Can you get any proof from the previous owner? That might be a job for your realtor.

Next is to determine who the installer was. Do you know? Can you find out? Ask the realtor. Check with your local building department if they have a building permit on record for the pool. If it exists, that would reveal the builder and possibly the pebble installer.

What you're after is a warranty repair. Either from the original builder, or the pebble installer sub-contractor. Either might honor a warranty. And if you can't find either company, and it's actually PebbleTec, then PebbleTec might have a record of the build, and might honor a warranty.

That's a lot of "mights," and it all may be too late, but might only cost you a few phone calls...

In CA, a builder is responsible for his build for up to 10 years. The statute of limitations depends on the nature of the build and the nature of the problem. I won't go into all that just now, and we'd have to first figure out if NV has some sort of similar building laws, but it's a possibility if you're looking to recover the cost of the repair.

I recently had my attic insulation fixed by the original home builder, even though I'm not the original home owner and even though the written warranty from the original builder had long ago expired. I ultimately had to go to Small Claims court to force the builder to comply, but that didn't cost me anything but time.

If you end up discovering the fix is a substantial, costly repair (as opposed to just shooting some goop into the crack), then it might be worth a few phone calls to pursue a warranty repair or legal remedy.

FYI: it is the plaster (in your case the pebble-embedded plaster) that creates the waterproof barrier that holds water in a pool, not the underlying gunite, which is not waterproof. So, yes, a crack in the finish can most definitely be the cause of water loss. It's surprising that this hasn't been an issue before (and maybe it has, and you've been losing water, and money, to the crack this whole time).

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’ve had a similar crack like that. Still do. It doesn’t leak and the shotcrete below is fine. It’s a common kind of crack on a rolled step edge. Fill it in with pool putty epoxy (mix black & white to get a grey color that matches the plaster cream color) and be done with it. The fix (which I also had done) is horrible - they will want to chip out a large area of the plaster around the crack and apply a basic pebble plaster patch which will not match the surrounding color. It will look like a giant eye sore.

Plaster warranty is held by the plaster company and it’s typically only 5 years. Mine was repaired under warranty and it took 6 months of constant weekly calls to get the plaster company to fix it. Then, one day, some random worker showed up at 5pm, said he was here to fix the crack, worked until 9pm at night (with a flashlight) and did the patch. It looked horrible. It has since blended in but you can still see it was patched. The crack re-formed 18 months later.

My suggestion is to epoxy the crack and then, when you’re ready, replaster the pool. My intention is to replaster the spa at some point.

 

[Dirk]

While I probably shouldn't dispute Matt's likely wiser resolution, especially since his situation is almost identical to yours, just keep in mind it is not actually identical. Your pool is leaking, and his wasn't. And your pool's crack is growing, which might indicate a bigger problem than Matt had.

And while he's also likely correct that your pebble warranty is probably expired, that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't still a warranty that could cover it, or a legal remedy if there isn't.

If the crack can be repaired simply, as Matt describes, I'd agree, that's the way to go. And/or if you have plans to replaster the pool anytime soon, and a replaster would solve the problem permanently, that too is a fine plan. But if the crack is indicative of a larger structural problem, three things could come into play:

- That type of problem might not be permanently solved by a simple repair or a replaster and instead might need a more expensive fix.
- That type of problem might be covered by a lifetime warranty that some pool builders offer on the pool shell (separate from pebble warranties).
- Depending on NV law, the responsibility for that type of structural defect (if that's what it is) might fall to the original builder, despite the fact that you are not the original owner, and even if the pool shell doesn't have a lifetime warranty.

As Matt points out, pursuing any of those things certainly can take more effort than the "few phone calls" I suggested. That's a fair statement. And I don't mean to exaggerate what might be a simple fix into a big worry for you. I'm just pointing out some alternatives to consider. And so there's one more consideration: If the pool is past the pebble warranty, and the original builder never offered any sort of warranty, he may still be liable for the cost of the repair (again, depending on NV law). But even that possibility will expire. Here in CA, it's 10 years. I happened to win my case because I caught the construction defect before the 10 years was up. I only point that out because should you go to replaster your pool at year 11, and discover that the fix is going to be substantial and expensive, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't do something about it when you could.

I still say that determining who the original builder is, to see if he'll come out and take a look, is worth a little effort at this stage. There's really nothing to lose by trying, and who knows, maybe you've got a pool built by an honest, ethical builder. Hey, it could happen! If you can't find him, or he won't come out, then you can decide what to do from there.

 

[Newdude]

+1. You have nothing to lose by trying. Minor efforts could possibly reap big rewards. If nothing else, you'll feel better that you tried

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I’d wait for the bucket test results before you go too much further down the road. The southwest desert is very dry and our weather has been anything but “average” the last few years. The desert southwest gets over 100” of water evaporation per year … that’s an entire pool volume and then some. Evap rates vary A LOT by month and with air temp, wind speed and dew point.

As for structural defect, I would happily bet the underlying gunite is fine. The rolled edge of a curved stair/step is the worst place for plaster defect because the plaster applicators rarely do a good job there in terms of adhesion. Once a pocket forms between the plaster and the shotcrete, a crack is inevitable.

One step at a time … Do a bucket test.

 

[Noob]

Thank-you, all, for your valuable input! I will definitely dig into my files this coming weekend and see what I can find as far as the orig PB. My recall is that all the last owner (think I'm #3 or 4?) was able to give me were some brochures, one of which was about pebble tec, so that's how I figured out what I have (also it does look like it). I am ALL for taking advantage of warranties when possible.

Some good news, though, for the time being is that my preliminary bucket test seems to be exactly in line with what is, I guess, the common knowledge about pool water loss in Vegas. From Sunday 5 p.m. to Monday 5 p.m., with my pool pump off (and my auto-fill not working [key fact I left out!]), I lost "about" 1/4 inch in both the pool and the bucket. Now I feel a bit silly for acting like the sky was falling over a 1.25" weekly loss, especially when it finally occurred to me that the reason why this probably seems unusual for "me" is because ... my auto-fill is no longer working and so I'm noticing the dropping levels more. Doh! (There's a reason for my user name! Lol)

I'm still going to take care of the crack, but I'm relieved it's now an important task instead of an emergency. I appreciate all of the feedback!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah. I kind of figured it wasn’t a leak. I’ve seen that exact crack in a dozen or more pools (usually at neighbor/friend/kid parties). It’s very common on a curved and rolled step edge because the plaster adhesion is poor in those spots. As the plaster cures there’s a certain amount of shrinkage that occurs and curved surfaces will experience different underlying forces that can easily lead to the plaster pulling away from the gunite shell causing a void between the plaster and shell. Then, over time, SNAP! and it cracks.

Just fill it with epoxy. There’s a 2 part epoxy putty you can buy that comes in black and white. It’s like a thick playdoh that you mix together the two components. If you mix the black and white varieties you can get any shade of grey that you want and it can be a pretty close match. I believe it cures underwater as well so there’s no need to drain the pool to do the patch.

I suggest not having a plaster company repair it. Even if you could get them to come out to give you an estimate, they’re either going to give you the “go-away” price (ie, they don’t want the job) or you are going to wait forever for them to show up and they won’t be sending their A-player to do the fix. The fix is to chip out a large swath of the crack and fill it with generic pebble patch. It will look horrible. I suggest just living with it until it’s time to replaster.

 

[Dirk]

If it was an underlying structural defect in the gunite that was pulling the plaster/pebble apart, I think it'd be leaking like a sieve. If you feel that's not the case, Matt's fix is definitely the way to go. Even if you don't get the color perfect, it's the kind of blemish only you would notice, and a few weeks after would forget to remember to be bothered by it!

You might still pursue investigating who built your pool. If he offered the original owner a lifetime warranty on the pool's shell, it'd be worth knowing if he'd extend it to you. Of course "lifetime" isn't your lifetime, or his, or even your pool's. It's really the lifetime of his business. If his company is gone, so is the warranty.

If it really is PebbleTec, there are 17 authorized PebbleTec installers in Vegas. Maybe the one that worked on your pool is still around. It's fairly certain the PebbleTec warranty has expired, but this might be a path to a little knowledge about your pool:

Find a Builder for your Pool Remodel or New Construction

The ONLY way to get real PebbleTec for your pool, is to choose a real PebbleTec Builder or Applicator / Installer. Find a pool builder now!

pebbletec.com

 

[Noob]

Thanks so much everyone. I will update with a picture after I've done the patch. Going to make a donation right now because I appreciate this forum so much

 

[kazamali]

Let me know how your patch goes as I may have to do the same. I have the exact same problem, but I am the original owner of the pool and it's only been 2.5 years. I've been badgering my PB warranty folks for 2 months and they just keep saying "we're contacting Pebble Tec". I have since asked my foreman/PM who built the pool to step in and help.