Payment schedule?

Just FYI: It's been 2 years since my pool was "filled and started", and there are still items on the final "punch out" list which haven't been completed. YMMV
 
Just FYI: It's been 2 years since my pool was "filled and started", and there are still items on the final "punch out" list which haven't been completed. YMMV
I'm sorry to hear that, but thanks for the example of why you never pay a contractor in full until he has delivered in full.

I'm just now realizing that I hijacked this thread, but I think that's OK, as this will be a good read for anyone with similar questions about a pool build draw schedule. Not to rub it in @Stoopalini, but your posts make for a good cautionary tale.

I had forgotten the post here that I wrote two years ago (#8), but it's still stands up pretty well, I think.

And I really liked what @sbcpool had to say in post #10. It dovetails nicely with my guess as to why @Bnix's builder wants his money now.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HermanTX
Right. The OP's contractor probably got stiffed one too many times, so no longer leaves the final payment to chance. That's not an excuse not to have a reasonable retention in the contract, but a possible reason. The problem is, like with all contracts between consumer and contractor, the consumer often doesn't have the experience to know what should and shouldn't be in a contract, and the builder, over the years, modifies his contract to benefit himself. CA is better than most States in that it is very pro-consumer and has laws in place that minimize this issue. Other States, not so much.

Fingers crossed that the OP and his contractor will both be reasonable and work this out. They could probably wrap up the punch list in a day or two, and everyone can part happy.
Agreed and to your point that would have been a big red flag in the vetting process. Generally speaking each contractor I’ve dealt with doesn’t even flinch. You breathe the word retention and the response is “Is 5% ok?”. But this experience is coming from larger jobs in the 7 figures. I’ve also done smaller work on a handshake where it was never discussed. Luckily it was known trusted contractors that were super honest and wanted any future work I could toss at them, so it wasn’t an issue.

Hoping OP can get a good resolution regardless of the current stumbling blocks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kaylee34
Just FYI: It's been 2 years since my pool was "filled and started", and there are still items on the final "punch out" list which haven't been completed. YMMV
I would never make final payment prior to completion. And you have to hold back enough to make it worth their while to come out and finish. If there's $500 worth of work to do, they lose nothing if you're holding back $500, and will prioritize other higher dollar jobs than your punch list items. Good luck!!!!!
 
Luckily it was known trusted contractors that were super honest and wanted any future work I could toss at them, so it wasn’t an issue.
This is a common sentiment, and even expressed by others when this thread first started. And this "sounds good on paper" and fits with what people want to assume about their project: good guy, I trust him, gonna be perfect work, gonna finish on time, etc. This is what people assume, and have a right to, because this is what they desperately want to believe. And they might have even bothered to get a reference that proves that's how their guy has performed in the past. But here's the rub:

No construction project goes perfectly, and some go south quite badly, and of those, many went south through no fault of their "great guy, great reputation" builder. Maybe he gets in an accident and can't work. Maybe there is a massive shift in the labor force and he can't get any subs to work. Maybe a pandemic destroys the supply chain and causes massive inflation that impacts your project (sound familiar)? Maybe the guy's wife asks for a very expensive divorce right before your plaster goes in, or his kid gets sick. Maybe he pours someone else's pool with a bad batch of gunite, and now has to "make up for it" somehow. Any number of things can happen that would plummet your builder into insolvency, or bankruptcy, and if it's between his financial wellbeing and yours, how do you think that's going to play out?

Maybe you get a crooked builder, maybe he's the most honest person alive, but there are just too many things that can go wrong in a long, complicated, expensive build for you to gamble your hard-earned savings that's it's all gonna work out fine. The only way to partially protect yourself from these scenarios is to make sure, contractually, that the actual value of your build, at any point in time, always equals or exceeds the money you've paid. Which means you pay for materials after they are on site. You pay for a progress step after it's been completed, and you make your final payment after the job is done. Otherwise, you're just gambling with your money, but a gamble in which you can only break even or lose, not win anything. Not even Vegas is that risky!

As pointed out, if a builder won't agree to that, he is telling you in no uncertain terms that he does not have enough cash on hand to float the cost of materials or labor, even for a few weeks. He has no savings. He has no credit. He's not very good with his own money, so you can assume he won't be with yours. And/or he's not particularly confident that his product will satisfy you. That is not a sustainable business model, prone to failure. Do you really want to get into a five- or six-figure business deal with a stranger that just told you that?
 
Last edited:
Just to be fair, the remaining items on our list weren't a big concern for us. One was a 2nd preform 2ft x 2ft equipment pad which they never delivered. I asked about it a couple of times, and they said it was on back order. I eventually just bought one myself.

Another item is the caps for the umbrella sleeves.

The only item which really bothered me is they were supposed to replumb the pad, and move the check valve to another location in the plumbing. But even this wasn't worth the hassle of me spending the time to chase them down.

I think if I was calling them a couple of times a week, I could have gotten these things complete, but I just let it go. They really did do a fantastic job, completing the pool in record time with no major issues; so I just ended up letting these things go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk
Just to be fair, the remaining items on our list weren't a big concern for us. One was a 2nd preform 2ft x 2ft equipment pad which they never delivered. I asked about it a couple of times, and they said it was on back order. I eventually just bought one myself.

Another item is the caps for the umbrella sleeves.

The only item which really bothered me is they were supposed to replumb the pad, and move the check valve to another location in the plumbing. But even this wasn't worth the hassle of me spending the time to chase them down.

I think if I was calling them a couple of times a week, I could have gotten these things complete, but I just let it go. They really did do a fantastic job, completing the pool in record time with no major issues; so I just ended up letting these things go.
And it sounds like you're a satisfied customer, so that's good. But the overarching point is that had you withheld $1000, all those things would have been done straight away. How big or little or important or trivial doesn't matter (to me, anyway). Their attention to detail was compromised because they've done this before, and customers before you also let things go. Its now part of their MO. (Just speculating.) The reason consumers have so much trouble with contractors is because we allow it.

Done is done, and anything less... isn't.
 
Last edited:
Just to be fair, the remaining items on our list weren't a big concern for us. One was a 2nd preform 2ft x 2ft equipment pad which they never delivered. I asked about it a couple of times, and they said it was on back order. I eventually just bought one myself.

Another item is the caps for the umbrella sleeves.

The only item which really bothered me is they were supposed to replumb the pad, and move the check valve to another location in the plumbing. But even this wasn't worth the hassle of me spending the time to chase them down.

I think if I was calling them a couple of times a week, I could have gotten these things complete, but I just let it go. They really did do a fantastic job, completing the pool in record time with no major issues; so I just ended up letting these things go.
If you are holding back $1500, they're calling you, not the other way around.
It sounds like you're happy with your pool, and that's the most important thing. 😁
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk
We are ready to start building and I was wondering what is a typical payment schedule for a company building a pool/spa/grotto?I don't want to put too much money out before work is completed and risk the contractor just taking the money and not completing. I have always built my own pools and paid contractors after each completed phase. It just feels weird to have somebody ask me for 1/3 before even starting digging.
Just curious- did you negotiate a better payment schedule? It be helpful for the community to know if PB are willing to adjust their draw schedules. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirk

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
I was one of those who never asked about payment schedule ahead of signing the contract. That being said, after the pool was up and running and we were swimming I asked the builder if we were to give him final payment and he said, no after the salt--which I didn't realize was 30 days after plaster. That wait period could be a good time to get things fixed or the final punch list addressed so having a swg could really help anyone hold back money if they are doing a new build by building in a time extension.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HermanTX
I was one of those who never asked about payment schedule ahead of signing the contract. That being said, after the pool was up and running and we were swimming I asked the builder if we were to give him final payment and he said, no after the salt--which I didn't realize was 30 days after plaster. That wait period could be a good time to get things fixed or the final punch list addressed so having a swg could really help anyone hold back money if they are doing a new build by building in a time extension.
That's a great example of a builder who is solvent (has sufficient capital to keep his business running without relying on draws), and very high confidence in his product. Not to mention a willingness to make sure the customer is 100% satisfied before even asking for final payment. Gee, what a concept!

By the way, these are the types of questions one might ask of a contractor's reference, before deciding on one. What was his draw schedule? Did he want money before he finished? Or did he wait until after the pool was done-done before asking? How much deposit did he want? As we've been discussing, these are tells of how good a business man he is, as well as how good a builder he is.
 
That's a great example of a builder who is solvent (has sufficient capital to keep his business running without relying on draws), and very high confidence in his product. Not to mention a willingness to make sure the customer is 100% satisfied before even asking for final payment. Gee, what a concept!

By the way, these are the types of questions one might ask of a contractor's reference, before deciding on one. What was his draw schedule? Did he want money before he finished? Or did he wait until after the pool was done-done before asking? How much deposit did he want? As we've been discussing, these are tells of how good a business man he is, as well as how good a builder he is.
Exactly. You do NOT want a PB (or any other contractor) who is not sufficiently capilalized to pay his bills (labor and materials) before his customer has paid in full.
Our PB wasn't perfect (we got the D team for site supervisor) but the last draw wasn't until after completion, and they didn't make a peep about my withholding $1500 until the punch list was done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeani3D and Dirk
My PB is a very large builder (largest in Texas), and here is our schedule:

Total cost: $67,651
  • 40% due upon completion of excavation = $27,060.40
  • 30% due upon completion of gunite = $20,295.30
  • 20% due upon completion of deck pour = $13,530.20
  • 10% due just prior to plaster installation = $6,765.10
So while my PB doesn't require anything up front, we do make the final payment before the plaster is installed.
Not to pay completely before final inspection. No no.
 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.