Painting vs Re-Plastering

[JPMorgan]

About a year ago we had our indoor pool deck redone and the company dripped their polyurethane product all over the inside of the pool. We had to diamond grind the plaster in order to remove the material. Since that time the plaster on the floor of the pool seems to be deteriorating and there is also a pretty significant crack. The pool has also been more susceptible to algae, especially along the edges of the floor where most of the grinding had to be done.

We received a quote for about $25,000 to replaster the pool and are looking for a less expensive option. I used to paint my residential pool with Super Poxy paint from In The Swim with good results. The paint job was good for 4-5 years and the painted surface was slick, so rarely had any problems with algae and if we did get iot little it was easy to remove. Our pool company said they didn't have a problem with our painting the pool, but said they don't do it anymore and referred me to a company that could do it for us.

Is this a viable/ reasonable option for our indoor pool? Any drawbacks or things to consider? Being indoors, I'm guessing an epoxy paint job may last quite a bit longer than it did in my outdoor residential pool. It is also a bromine pool. Does that make any difference?

Any thoughts or information about painting vs plastering the pool is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[1poolman1]

About a year ago we had our indoor pool deck redone and the company dripped their polyurethane product all over the inside of the pool. We had to diamond grind the plaster in order to remove the material. Since that time the plaster on the floor of the pool seems to be deteriorating and there is also a pretty significant crack. The pool has also been more susceptible to algae, especially along the edges of the floor where most of the grinding had to be done.

We received a quote for about $25,000 to replaster the pool and are looking for a less expensive option. I used to paint my residential pool with Super Poxy paint from In The Swim with good results. The paint job was good for 4-5 years and the painted surface was slick, so rarely had any problems with algae and if we did get iot little it was easy to remove. Our pool company said they didn't have a problem with our painting the pool, but said they don't do it anymore and referred me to a company that could do it for us.

Is this a viable/ reasonable option for our indoor pool? Any drawbacks or things to consider? Being indoors, I'm guessing an epoxy paint job may last quite a bit longer than it did in my outdoor residential pool. It is also a bromine pool. Does that make any difference?

Any thoughts or information about painting vs plastering the pool is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Much depends on how much misery you want in your life. Pool paints are no longer durable due to the VOC laws that have removed the "good stuff" from them. In a couple of years or so you will find that the paint will start to "chalk," leaving it on anything that touches it. The water will get cloudy, and you will have to do the process all over again. Happens with epoxies as well, though it may take a little longer.
If there is a company in your area that does it, you could look into having a fiberglass coating shot overt the existing plaster. They, usually, remove any delaminating spots and fill them, then shoot a coating that will last a long time. Cost may be similar, but downtime is usually less.

 

[Bperry]

The pool has also been more susceptible to algae, especially along the edges of the floor where most of the grinding had to be done.

That’s a sanitatizer problem, not a plaster problem.

 

[JamesW]

Painting?

 

[JamesW]

The pool has also been more susceptible to algae, especially along the edges of the floor where most of the grinding had to be done.

It is also a bromine pool. Does that make any difference?

Bromine tablets contain DMH, which builds up and causes problems like CYA.

As the DMH increases, the bromine becomes less effective and you can have problems just like high CYA and chlorine.

 

[JPMorgan]

Bromine tablets contain DMH, which builds up and causes problems like CYA.

As the DMH increases, the bromine becomes less effective and you can have problems just like high CYA and chlorine.

The pool was filled in January (after the deck was done). Would DMH be causing issues in less than a year?

 

[JamesW]

The pool was filled in January (after the deck was done). Would DMH be causing issues in less than a year?

How many pounds of bromine tablets have been used?

 

[JamesW]

There is no poolside test kit that I know of to test for DMH. The only way, other than taking a sample to a special lab, is to calculate the level based on the amount of tablets used. Every 10 pounds added to 24,000 gallons will add 26 ppm of DMH. 50 pounds of tabs will add 130 ppm of DMH. The tabs are about 52 % DMH by weight.
Dilution and reverse osmosis are the only ways to remove DMH. Some areas have a service that will come to you with a commercial grade reverse osmosis setup to clean your pool water. Southern California and Arizona are the only areas that I know have the reverse osmosis service available.

You can use bromine in the indoor pool without using tabs. You just add 8 pounds sodium bromide ( for 24,000 gallons) and then use liquid chlorine as the oxidizer.

 

[JPMorgan]

How many pounds of bromine tablets have been used?

It's a bit of a guess, but I would say about 75 lbs.

 

[JPMorgan]

"You can use bromine in the indoor pool without using tabs. You just add 8 pounds sodium bromide ( for 24,000 gallons) and then use liquid chlorine as the oxidizer."

Can you say a little more about this. How do you maintain the pool using sodium bromide? How often do you add the sodium bromide? How often do you add the chlorine. We have a liquid chlorine feeder for our outdoor pool. Would be relatively simple to set up to also feed the indoor pool. Would this eliminate any issues with DMH? Thanks.

 

[JamesW]

How often do you add the sodium bromide?

Initially and then as needed to maintain the level based on dilution.

You can add more sodium bromide than necessary, so the exact amount is not critical.

How often do you add the chlorine.

Based on testing and add as needed.

Would this eliminate any issues with DMH?

Yes.

The chlorine converts the bromide to bromine.

 

[JPMorgan]

So..... could I use our liquid chlorine feeder to add the chlorine gradually (as needed) to keep the sanitizer (bromine) at a consistent level? I would still be testing for bromine (not chlorine), right? The bromine tabs are very convenient (but clearly cause some problems with the DMH). However, if I have to manually add the liquid chlorine daily or even every few days, then that becomes somewhat of an issue. If I can use the chlorine feeder that would be perfect and easy to implement as the chlorine feeder sits right next to the indoor pool pad. Will this work with a controller that operates on ORP?

 

[JamesW]

could I use our liquid chlorine feeder to add the chlorine gradually (as needed) to keep the sanitizer (bromine) at a consistent level?

Yes.

I would still be testing for bromine (not chlorine), right?

Yes.

Will this work with a controller that operates on ORP?

Yes.

 

[JPMorgan]

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

This is fantastic! Without the bromine tablets we wouldn't have to worry about the DMH build up and wouldn't have to drain and refill the pool periodically, right? Since we filled the pool less than a year ago, could we just start using the liquid chlorine feeder now (say, for another year) and turn off the bromine feeder..... then (next year) drain and refill the pool, add the sodium bromide and continue to maintain with the chlorine feeder? Is there a test kit to test for the level of sodium bromide in the pool that I should use now?

 

[JamesW]

Without the bromine tablets we wouldn't have to worry about the DMH build up and wouldn't have to drain and refill the pool periodically, right?

Right.

Since we filled the pool less than a year ago, could we just start using the liquid chlorine feeder now (say, for another year) and turn off the bromine feeder.

The DMH is already too high.

You can start using liquid chlorine instead of tabs to avoid increasing the DMH even more, but lowering the DMH would be the best choice.

Is there a test kit to test for the level of sodium bromide in the pool that I should use now?

No, there is no available test for bromide or DMH except for a qualified lab, which you would need to locate.

 

[JPMorgan]

You can start using liquid chlorine instead of tabs to avoid increasing the DMH even more, but lowering the DMH would be the best choice.

So.... just turn off the bromine feeder and get the liquid chlorine feeder hooked up to feed the indoor pool. I think I can sell the HOA on this solution to our persistent algae issue in the indoor pool. That is a great solution and I wish I was aware of this sooner. However, I think this has to go through the state permit process as it is a change in the current equipment. Seems like a relatively easy re-configuration, but the state will want their "cut".

What is the formula for how much sodium bromide to add to the pool when we drain and refill? We have a 21,350 gallon pool.

 

[JPMorgan]

No, there is no available test for bromide or DMH except for a qualified lab, which you would need to locate.

If I'm close on the amount of bromine tabs we have used in the pool so far (75 pounds) is there a formula to tell how much DMH is in the pool?

 

[JamesW]

What is the formula for how much sodium bromide to add to the pool when we drain and refill? We have a 21,350 gallon pool.

5 lb will provide about 30 ppm.

 

[JamesW]

If I'm close on the amount of bromine tabs we have used in the pool so far (75 pounds) is there a formula to tell how much DMH is in the pool?

The level will be about 200 ppm.

 

[JamesW]

The level of dimethylhydantoin in the water must be limited and should not exceed 200 mg/l. There is no poolside test kit available, and the need to regularly monitor dimethylhydantoin by a qualified laboratory is a disadvantage of the use of BCDMH. Reference

The concentration of BCDMH in water should not reach 200 mg/L or higher, otherwise the equilibrium between the residual disinfectant and the organic matter is disturbed. Reference

DMH below a maximum of 200 mg/L. http://www.health.vic.gov.au/phwa/downl ... ouncil.pdf

4 Where bromochlorodimethylhydantoin is used the maximum dimethylhydantoin concentration shall be 200 mg/L. Reference

High concentrations of dimethyl hydantoin (the DMH in BCDMH) are known to build up in pools treated with bromo-chloro-dimethylhydantoin, tying up bromine and reducing effectiveness. Problems similar to those that occur in chlorinated pools overstabilized with cyanuric acid result. Reference

Excessive DMH affects the disinfection efficiency so the level must not be allowed to get too high. The concentration should not exceed 200 ppm. http://www.swimming-pool-chemicals.co.u ... icals.html

Facilities using bromine as a sanitiser shall keep the DMH levels no greater than 200 milligrams per litre. http://cat1.poolsafety.com.au/uploaddoc ... 202010.pdf

Dimethylhydantoin (DMH) is a disinfection by-product of BCDMH, which has been associated with skin irritation (bromine itch) when the DMH concentration in pool water becomes too high. Pool operators need to maintain DMH below 200 mg/L. http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/resources/ ... g_pool.pdf