Ozone is a nice option to have

[jdjeff]

Hmmmm, I should have been clearer. I didn't keep the chlorine at .5 ish while the ozonater was down. I don't recall what levels I used exactly but used the tables to figure it out. Also shocked the pool several times and had to adjust ph and total alkalinity a bunch. I adjusted for CYA but didn't have much until I started raising the chlorine levels (but I kept adjusting for CYA). Saturation index was dead on. I also didn't just rely on my own smarts (or stupidity) but called on a well regarded pool service guy to help and it was still a struggle to get it in decent shape. We brushed, chlorinated, shocked, added algaecide, etc.. No comparison though to when the ozone is running. You are absolutely right about the cost of the kit versus just going the chemicals route, but I didn't and don't want to play that game, don't want to expose my kids to chloramines, and am willing to pay the price. I just don't believe it should be dismissed out of hand. It really does work and works quite effectively.

 

[teapot]

Fairy nuff, I have been running my pool at 0.2ppm all summer with crystal clear water for similar reasons (chloramines) and wanting to try and save on chlorine generally. I use a copper/silver ioniser to augment the chlorine and no CYA as I am trialling a new compound to protect the chlorine. Three lots of guests all with children mean I have had to shock the pool this week (something I have not had to do for years) interesting to hear your comments, I am not sure why you have had the marked improvement in clarity as I posted before the algae and bacteria don't free float but attach themselves to the pool walls and floor within 20 seconds so don't go through the chamber and the ozone is injected into the pool from the returns so are at the surface of the pool and quickly re combine back into water. Nevertheless you are succeeding.

I would just like to add the same comment about cost of the ioniser as you have with the ozone, an expensive route to go but cost isn't always the bottom line and I may bolt a salt cell onto the power supply and use the ioniser power supply to genterate chlorine instead.

 

[JasonLion]

At low FC levels (assuming FC is still above zero) chloramines are going to be far more common than at normal FC levels. Normal FC levels break down chloramines fairly well, while low FC levels tend to cause chloramines to build up. If what you are worried about are chloramines, then low FC levels are not at all the direction you want to go in.

it was still a struggle to get it in decent shape

Then you were not doing it correctly. Chlorine alone used correctly (as we advise here) gives outstanding water clarity and no algae problems, all with very minimal effort.

 

[jdjeff]

I'm sure over some extended period of time it would have worked to some degree. It just works better and easier with the ozone. No doubt about it. I don't have algae, I don't have dirt that settles on the walls and floor. I just have extraordinarily clear, soft water with a minimum of fuss and very little in the way of chemicals. You can object to it because of cost (undoubtedly) and you can object on general grounds to efficacy because there are just to many worthless systems and poor installs. But my pool with my system works substantially and noticeably better than my system without it (in my circumstances). Huge amounts of chlorine just doesn't seem to be a great idea. Not trying to change your mind but there are those who could benefit.

Cheers.

On the clarity question, I am definitely getting ozone circulating through the pool. I have one 2.5 hp pump running an infloor system which really gets the water moving. I also have a leaftrapper pump (2hp) that sucks from the deep end and circulates through 5 wall returns, so the water comes in contact with the walls. What is more weird is that without the ozone running I do have dirt (and algae?) sticking to the walls notwithstanding the circulation (ie: it is not enough flow to dislodge the dirt) but with the ozone running the water with the ozone is brushing by every surface and seems to do the trick. It may be, with respect to the algae, that it isn't directly killing it but maybe it is oxidizing whatever the algae were otherwise finding so attractive in my pool to eat (although nothing in the water chemistry suggested this was the case as we used phosphate remover, etc...). Even algaecide + high levels of chlorine -and the rest of chemistry in balance--would only work for 4-5 days before it started sneaking back. I've got 30 tons of moss rock so maybe it just keeps feeding back to the pool from there? Anyway, it just works.

 

[chem geek]

At low FC levels (assuming FC is still above zero) chloramines are going to be far more common than at normal FC levels. Normal FC levels break down chloramines fairly well, while low FC levels tend to cause chloramines to build up. If what you are worried about are chloramines, then low FC levels are not at all the direction you want to go in.

teapot has no CYA in the water so assuming that his alternative chlorine shielding compound does not combine with CYA to reduce its effectiveness, 0.2 ppm FC with no CYA is more than double the level in our chlorine/CYA charts so chloramines should get handled. The main risk with the low FC is that it can get used up locally quickly so you need to monitor and feed the water carefully and should have some supplemental sanitizer just in case the chlorine gets to zero in a local region for a time. teapot's pool has that, though the kill rate for person-to-person transmission if someone urinates in an area is probably slow, but that just means it's not suitable for a commercial/public pool (though German DIN 19643 does allow down to 0.2 ppm FC with no CYA if ozone is also being used though in practice they almost always keep it at around 0.5 ppm for the practical reasons I noted above).

 

[learthur]

Just for kicks I just priced a Clearwater Tech A8e on the internet ... $9600 !!
Plus you have to add the cost of the holding tank and oxygen concentrator, probably another $2000 at least!!

I think this is a really cool ozone setup and the way ozone should be done if you are going to do it, but it is clearly expensive.

It also is a great lesson in contrast for those considering purchasing one of the typical low output ozone units typically sold in the market place....save your money

 

[Ohm_Boy]

My understanding is that while ozone is a good oxidizer, it has to be fully contained. Someone mentioned a few posts back that it will bubble out of the pool water, but ozone is hazardous and, if I recall correctly, regulated by the EPA. Am I wrong that Ozone must be kept within the piping and not allowed into the open water for that reason?

 

[chem geek]

Yes you are correct that ozone is not to be used as a bulk water disinfectant because it will outgas and is hazardous as a result. It's a gas that you want contained in the ozone chamber and for some limited distance downstream in the pipe, but not in any substantial amount into the pool itself. It's not like poisoned gas, but it is something to which you want limited exposure.

 

[jdjeff]

It is still disinfecting in addition to oxidizing, but given its limited half life, you don't want to pour so much in that appreciable quantities are escaping the pool surface. Very few systems that would be installed in a residential popol are capable of this, though, and even with some outgassing the levels at the pool surface are below those regulated. Typically by the time it reaches the surface its just plain O2. If not, that means there was nothing for it to react to. But that is the reason you put it through a conmtact tank AND introduce it at the floor of the pool. It has very limited residual in the pool but is being constantly reintroduced.

 

[teapot]

Hi jdjeff, that does sound like you have the situation well managed and the unit is capable for what it is designed for unlike the small units that do precious little. I was interested in your 2.5hp pump as you don't have any information on your pool size and filtration, could you give out any more information?

 

[jdjeff]

I've updated my profile with the pool info. The oxygen concentrator is part of the system (the concentrator, vacuum break, dryer, etc... are contained within one relatively small housing). The contact tank was extra but not very much, and the whole thing cost less than 9xxx dollars.