Owners of a scrubbing suction side cleaner

[phonedave]

I wouldn’t say my experience was “bad” with my robot. I got about 5 seasons out of it. What I did come to realize is that the Dolphin robots are “engineered for failure” such that it makes more sense to buy a new robot when one fails rather than try to fix it. That’s a business model decision that the parent company, Maytronics, has made. I simply don’t agree with it and it results in the pool owner having to lay out a large sun of money clean their pool. They could be engineered much better but that would then require Maytronics to stock parts and take on the responsibility of managing their products life cycle with more robust Warranty terms. They simply don’t want to deal with that and so they take the route of wastefulness instead - you get what you get and when it fails throw it in the trash and buy a new one. It’s the millennial age belief in wasteful consumerism - “I don’t want to take responsibility for the stuff I own, just give me new stuff …”. I suppose that’s how most people operate these days and it’s sad.

On a side note - my Maytag washing machine and dryer (10 years old) are finally being given the heave-ho and I’ve decided to upgrade to much better, and simpler, technology … Speed Queen classic series. I’m psyched to go back to machines that don’t need fancy and expensive-to-replace digital control boards. The Speed Queen classics are designed with simpler knobs and buttons. The tub is porcelain coated steel and the wash basket is all steel construction. You add detergents to the tub so there’s no dispenser systems with a half dozen hoses to potentially leak and fail. Water goes in one way and gets pumped out one way, that’s it. All the components are in the front of the machine right behind the access panel and easily reached. It’s 1960’s design with a modern tech behind it … I’m so psyched. The Maytag’s did their job for 10 years but, like most modern appliances, they are barely serviceable by any normal human being and their parts are expensive. We do a lot of laundry in my home and chew through machines at a fast clip so I’m looking forward to a much more reliable and serviceable design.

It seems you like to repair your own things.

Circuit Board Medics - Automotive, Trucking & Appliance

Circuit Board Medics is an automotive, trucking, and appliance electronic module repair company serving consumers and businesses worldwide.

circuitboardmedics.com

That place is wonderful. I had them repair the MCU (motor control unit) in my Whirlpool washer. The washer was maybe 4 years old when it died. It was easy enough to figure out it was the MCU. The hard part was finding a new one. While searching I found Circuit Board Medics. I think I sent it out on a Monday and had it back on a Thursday afternoon. That washer is still working 6 years later.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It seems you like to repair your own things.

Circuit Board Medics - Automotive, Trucking & Appliance

Circuit Board Medics is an automotive, trucking, and appliance electronic module repair company serving consumers and businesses worldwide.

circuitboardmedics.com

That place is wonderful. I had them repair the MCU (motor control unit) in my Whirlpool washer. The washer was maybe 4 years old when it died. It was easy enough to figure out it was the MCU. The hard part was finding a new one. While searching I found Circuit Board Medics. I think I sent it out on a Monday and had it back on a Thursday afternoon. That washer is still working 6 years later.

Thanks for the link. I replaced the control board and evap/condenser fans on my GE fridge a few years back. The original control board got fried from a fan motor failure. It burned out a few components. CBM probably could have repaired it and saved me the $350 for the new board but, oh well. It was actually a fun project to take apart the fridge and see how the technology really hasn’t changed much since the days of fixing my mom’s old fridge. It’s really just more fancy window-dressing tech heaped onto old refrigeration technology that’s about the same as it was in 1940’s. Personally I can do without being connected to my fridge by WiFi but going with the lower freezer drawer and upper side-by-side refrigerator section would improve my kitchen appliance game. I’ve decided that if/when the fridge gives me another major trouble event, it’s getting replaced. It’s 2005/06 unit so it’s given me enough service life.

 

[phonedave]

Thanks for the link. I replaced the control board and evap/condenser fans on my GE fridge a few years back. The original control board got fried from a fan motor failure. It burned out a few components. CBM probably could have repaired it and saved me the $350 for the new board but, oh well. It was actually a fun project to take apart the fridge and see how the technology really hasn’t changed much since the days of fixing my mom’s old fridge. It’s really just more fancy window-dressing tech heaped onto old refrigeration technology that’s about the same as it was in 1940’s. Personally I can do without being connected to my fridge by WiFi but going with the lower freezer drawer and upper side-by-side refrigerator section would improve my kitchen appliance game. I’ve decided that if/when the fridge gives me another major trouble event, it’s getting replaced. It’s 2005/06 unit so it’s given me enough service life.

That is not bad. My last fridge lasted 10 years. My biggest complaint was with the side-by-side doors. There is a mullion strip between the doors (to seal them) and it is spring loaded. Well one my kids shut the door with the strip in the wrong position and the post for the little spring broke off. It was not the first time people had closed the door like that either, and the post was thin, hollow plastic.

Well you cannot just replace that post, you have to replace the whole mullion strip and that strip contains a heater to prevent condensation. It was around $150 to replace (and somebody was just going to break it again) so I lived with it.

An other warning. From what I have seen, counter depth refrigerators don't seem to last that long.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

When I said that I found suction side cleaners to be more trouble than they are worth, I was talking about exactly what she said.

You cannot just leave them in the pool. The hose blocks the skimmer, the cleaner floats everywhere, and sometimes it looses prime.

I also found them to be very touchy to get working correctly. Too little suction and they just sit there. Too much and the climb out of the pool. Between having to set the thing up each time, futz around with the pressure to get it just right, and then to come back after an hour to find it wedged into the stairs or cleaning the waterline for the 20th time because it decide to crawl up the wall, it was faster and less frustrating for me to set up the manual vacuum and be done with it.

I am looking at robots for the future. If you were local I would say come over and borrow one of the three suction side cleaners I have in my shed and see if you like it.

I’ve honestly never experienced these sorts of problems. My Pentair KK Sandshark runs flawlessly. When the pump schedule hits “cleaner mode” speed, the unit runs fine and cleans well. Never gets stuck. Even at the lower speed it still moves around the pool just imperceptibly so. Once I set the flow correctly, it’s always worked. No issues with the skimmer and hose either. One mistake people often make is that they don’t adjust the length of the hose to the pool and instead opt to just buy a long continuous hose and throw it all in the pool. Pentair specifically supplies 3ft hose segments so that you tailor the hose length to the pools maximum dimension. And you use the hose weights on every 3rd segment to make sure the hose is submerged in the water. I’d estimate that with my setup, around 40% of the hose length is constantly under water and there’s no floating coils of hose to block anything. And this was all setup on the cleaners first run so it’s never needed any adjustment. The only issue is I can typically tell sooner when the filter is loaded because I can see the cleaner run a bit slower. So that’s kind of a good thing as it gives me a better indication of the filters status than the pressure gauge which barely changes pressure with loading.

 

[Padle]

When I said that I found suction side cleaners to be more trouble than they are worth, I was talking about exactly what she said.

You cannot just leave them in the pool. The hose blocks the skimmer, the cleaner floats everywhere, and sometimes it looses prime.

I also found them to be very touchy to get working correctly. Too little suction and they just sit there. Too much and the climb out of the pool. Between having to set the thing up each time, futz around with the pressure to get it just right, and then to come back after an hour to find it wedged into the stairs or cleaning the waterline for the 20th time because it decide to crawl up the wall, it was faster and less frustrating for me to set up the manual vacuum and be done with it.

I am looking at robots for the future. If you were local I would say come over and borrow one of the three suction side cleaners I have in my shed and see if you like it.

No need, the previous owner left me a Hayword Navigator, which moves so slow, it looks like it's going backwards, but it does (somewhat) work.

I'm at the point to either replace it with a SSC or a robot.

I'm leaning now, that If I can get a good deal on the SSC that I hope will work well, I'll go that route first. Additionaly, as of now I don't have a VS pump, so there's currently enough power for any SSC when my pump is running.

The active 20 (s200) is now $859, if it was still the 699 I may have jumped to that.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

No need, the previous owner left me a Hayword Navigator, which moves so slow, it looks like it's going backwards, but it does (somewhat) work.

I'm at the point to either replace it with a SSC or a robot.

I'm leaning now, that If I can get a good deal on the SSC that I hope will work well, I'll go that route first. Additionaly, as of now I don't have a VS pump, so there's currently enough power for any SSC when my pump is running.

The active 20 (s200) is now $859, if it was still the 699 I may have jumped to that.

Just note that the statement that suction cleaners don’t work well with variable speed pumps is simply untrue. I have had an IntelliFlo since Day 1 of my pool ten years ago and the Kreepy Krawly Sandshark works fine with it. It does require you to run the pump at higher speed when cleaning but since most people will have some kind of scheduling/automation with a VSP, then you simply schedule the higher speed to run at a specific time and the cleaner will do fine.

For example, my pump is setup to run the “slow skim” speed (1600rpm) for most of the day (18 hours). When I want to make chlorine with my SWG during the daylight hours, the PUMP schedule (that’s what it’s called) runs and the pump speed is about 1800 RPM. When I want to run my cleaner for 2 hours, the cleaner feature runs the pump at 2200 rpm. I have that set on both a schedule (every other day) and I can also use the manual “egg timer” feature if I want to run the cleaner for spot cleaning at an off-scheduled time. In reality, my SSC is still moving and running at all of those speeds, it’s just runs more quickly at the higher speed. And the cleaner stays on the pool 24/7 unless we are swimming and then it comes out.

So the notion that you can’t get an SSC to run easily with a VSP is simply untrue.

 

[phonedave]

I’ve honestly never experienced these sorts of problems. My Pentair KK Sandshark runs flawlessly. When the pump schedule hits “cleaner mode” speed, the unit runs fine and cleans well. Never gets stuck. Even at the lower speed it still moves around the pool just imperceptibly so. Once I set the flow correctly, it’s always worked. No issues with the skimmer and hose either. One mistake people often make is that they don’t adjust the length of the hose to the pool and instead opt to just buy a long continuous hose and throw it all in the pool. Pentair specifically supplies 3ft hose segments so that you tailor the hose length to the pools maximum dimension. And you use the hose weights on every 3rd segment to make sure the hose is submerged in the water. I’d estimate that with my setup, around 40% of the hose length is constantly under water and there’s no floating coils of hose to block anything. And this was all setup on the cleaners first run so it’s never needed any adjustment. The only issue is I can typically tell sooner when the filter is loaded because I can see the cleaner run a bit slower. So that’s kind of a good thing as it gives me a better indication of the filters status than the pressure gauge which barely changes pressure with loading.

I have tried many different hose lengths (mine has 3 foot segments as well).

Maybe because mine is an ABG vs IG?

A VS would likely be helpful for me. Dialing in the correct flow with a VS would be a lot easier than fiddling with spring loaded intakes.

 

[Newdude]

The active 20 (s200) is now $859, if it was still the 699 I may have jumped to that.

That was my breaking point. I had $700 in hand and BOOM. $859. It took the summer to get the yard reassembled after the build so I knew I'd be hand vacuuming a bunch either way with all the dirt blowing in.

Then we had a ton of failures over the summer and I'm back on the fence.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

That was my breaking point. I had $700 in hand and BOOM. $859. It took the summer to get the yard reassembled after the build so I knew I'd be hand vacuuming a bunch either way with all the dirt blowing in.

Then we had a ton of failures over the summer and I'm back on the fence.

Apparently Aiper has just released a new “quad drive” robot … their cordless unit. Maybe look at their stuff and see if anything interests you. I also think that with your use-case, ie, short swim season, a robot may last a lot longer especially if you’re careful with it. My gut feeling is that these robots have been engineered to the edge of failure so that they cost Maytronics the least amount possible while still able to function. So for those of us that would be inclined to leave a robot in the pool 24/7/365, it’s more likely to fail. But if you are conscientious and only use it as-need for the 3 months that the pool is open, then I think you’ll get longer life out of it.

 

[Padle]

Well, I got a new Polaris atlas xt with a two year warranty on eBay for $400. I watched it for a bit and got aggravated as it's not smart, and will do the same area over and over. So decided not to watch it. I can back 4 hours later, and it has cleaned the whole pool, leaves debris and all. It even climbed walls!

So I do know I shouldn't rely on it for scrubbing, but this is the best scrubbing/brushing my pool has gotten in a month

All in all very happy. Thank you all!

 

[Newdude]

I watched it for a bit and got aggravated as it's not smart, and will do the same area over and over

None of us like being watched. Poor little guy was nervous looking over his shoulder and being judged.

Also, the only thing worse than watching something being done wrong is watching it be done slowly. So that's 2 strikes for your sanity. Toss it in, walk away and if you feel like you need it, run a 2nd cycle.

 

[Padle]

Well, a week in, still very happy. A couple of observations.

#1 My pool robot can climb the walls of I give it all the juice from the pump, but most of the time, I don't and it still cleans the floor of the pool very nicely.

#2 I didn't realize how many leaves fall into my pool on a regular basis. I guess when I was manually cleaning, 20 leaves or 30 leaves look the same Now that it gets vacuumed every day, I can see how much actually falls in! so I'm glad I have a SSC and not a robot that I would have to fiddle with every couple days.

#3 I pray it keeps working this well going forward with minimal maintenance. If that happens, well it definitely was a good choice (over the robot)

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Well, a week in, still very happy. A couple of observations.

#1 My pool robot can climb the walls of I give it all the juice from the pump, but most of the time, I don't and it still cleans the floor of the pool very nicely.

#2 I didn't realize how many leaves fall into my pool on a regular basis. I guess when I was manually cleaning, 20 leaves or 30 leaves look the same Now that it gets vacuumed every day, I can see how much actually falls in! so I'm glad I have a SSC and not a robot that I would have to fiddle with every couple days.

#3 I pray it keeps working this well going forward with minimal maintenance. If that happens, well it definitely was a good choice (over the robot)

Cool looking suction cleaner! I hope it lasts a long time for you with minimal headaches.

 

[Katodude]

I love reading threads like this. It really amounts to a personal preference thing. I love my robots (I now have 3), and will never go back to suction cleaner. The M500 actually has a 3rd brush that is supposed to be a “scrubbing/brushing” brush. Not sure if it does or does not. My M500 is going to be 6 in May. Hope she makes it longer. I will be sad when it dies, and I am not sure what I will replace it with. It goes in the pool once a week in the winter, and 2-3 times a week in the summer.

I dont like looking at cables or hoses (thats just me). So I always take the cleaner out when it is done, clean the filters, rinse it off and put it away. I now run my Seagull SE every morning and only clean its filter once a week (it dumps most of its debris in the net I use to scoop it up). My Betta keeps the surface pretty much free of debris.

I just bought an LG robot vac from a friend (should arrive soon) that I will use to clean my deck. Stay tuned on what that fiasco will be like.

That said, do what makes you happy and what you can afford.

 

[Padle]

I love a thread like this too This forum is very robot heavy.

I grew up in Florida, seeing a SSC in the pool all the time. To me it's part of the fun of a pool. I remember as a kid swimming under the hoses, or chasing the vaccum. But I can see how some view it as an eyesore.

Like you said, it's all personal preference. Ultimately my quest is to invest in products that will save me time and hassle.

For me the best fit (I think) is this SSC. Though the betta looks enticing as well.

I also now have a SWG and I got a waterguru a couple months ago.

My working theory is. The money I'm investing, is cheaper than a pool company, and my pool is better taken care of.

 

[djw]

I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that a robot (s200 currently) is going to cost me on average $300-$400 per year, parts, wear items, periodically a motor unit. If I am lucky. I don't like it very much, but it is relatively easy to work on compared to what I have in the past, generally low hassle. I probably need another identical Maytronics unit to always have one available. And I am not all that happy about it, but it cleans better than anything I have done yet. It doesn't get every corner or do the steps and swim-outs hardly at all, I have to do that by hand anyway. I have lots of leaves, catkins, and sandy stuff throughout the year. And the cleaner is not going to get pulled out, except to be emptied and serviced - that is just the way it is here - my pool collects a lot of debris , is on the large side, and cleaning is a near daily activity.

That said, I am curious on the converts to suction-side cleaners. Specific cleaners and your experiences. The relative simplicity and lower TCO is interesting. I run my VSP all the time and very low, just enough to keep the cell generating.

I do not have a suction port, but I am also wondering if, with some creative plumbing, a pressure-side cleaner port could be converted. Or maybe a return line could be converted to a suction port (assuming one of them can be identified as 'redundant').

Interested in any info and experiences.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that a robot (s200 currently) is going to cost me on average $300-$400 per year, parts, wear items, periodically a motor unit. If I am lucky. I don't like it very much, but it is relatively easy to work on compared to what I have in the past, generally low hassle. I probably need another identical Maytronics unit to always have one available. And I am not all that happy about it, but it cleans better than anything I have done yet, doesn't get every corner. I have lots of leaves, catkins, and sandy stuff throughout the year.

That said, I am curious on the converts to suction-side cleaners. The relative simplicity and lower TCO is interesting. I run my VSP all the time and very low, just enough to keep the cell generating. I do not have a suction port, but I am also wondering if, with some creative plumbing, a pressure-side cleaner port could be converted.

Interested in any info.

It depends on the buried plumbing. If a 1-1/2” PVC line was run underground to the pool, then the pressure port can be converted to a suction line. If the PB used 3/4” line from the pad to the pool, then it can’t operate as a suction line.

 

[phonedave]

I grew up in Florida, seeing a SSC in the pool all the time. To me it's part of the fun of a pool. I remember as a kid swimming under the hoses, or chasing the vaccum. But I can see how some view it as an eyesore.

Growing up in NJ, my neighbors had a rather large plaster IG pool. It had next to no flat or square surfaces aside from the entrance steps. It was a free form kidney shaped thing with a bottom that sloped in all directions (it was also about 9-10 feet deep in the diving area).

They had some sort of robot in it. I have to assume it was a pressure side cleaner, because it had a water jet on it, but maybe not. It had a floating part that moved around the perimeter of the pool. It had a rotating sprayer on the top that would spray the waterline tile, and a rotating brush ring that went around the head that would scrub the waterline. It trailed two long suction hose "tentacles" behind it with weighted bottoms that would drag around the bottom of the pool. So maybe it was suction side, and it used a built in suction powered pump to spray the waterline. From memory, I remember that jet being pretty anemic. It was not in the pool all of the time, but it was in there often. We used to do the same thing, dive under the hose, swim around the tentacles, etc.