Owners of a scrubbing suction side cleaner

[Padle]

Anyone here own or owned a suction side cleaner that also scrubs. Like the new Polaris Maxx or Polaris atlas.

I know this forum is robot heavy, but as a owner of a Roomba which I am happy with, I don't think a pool robot is for me.

Either way, that aside, anyone here own a suction side cleaner that scrubs, is the scrubbing any good? Does it let you scrub your pool less often?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I owned a robot for 5 years and went back to using a suction cleaner because I don’t feel they are worth the excessive cost for me. I now use Pentair Kreepy Krawly Sandshark. No scrubbing.

But here’s the thing - I was never convinced my robots scrubbing did anything anyway. So do you think a suction cleaner with a scrubbing brush will really do anything useful?

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t get one of those cleaners. Just that I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Automatic cleaners should do one thing really well - pick up leaves and dirt. Anything else is of secondary importance.

And, being honest, I don’t do a lot of manual scrubbing/brushing and my pool hasn’t really suffered because of my laziness.

 

[1poolman1]

Anyone here own or owned a suction side cleaner that also scrubs. Like the new Polaris Maxx or Polaris atlas.

I know this forum is robot heavy, but as a owner of a Roomba which I am happy with, I don't think a pool robot is for me.

Either way, that aside, anyone here own a suction side cleaner that scrubs, is the scrubbing any good? Does it let you scrub your pool less often?

Cleaners aren't made heavy enough to do any real scrubbing as would be done with a pool brush.

 

[sktn77a]

Well, add the suction force to the weight (force) of the cleaner. It might be enough to do something(?)

 

[1poolman1]

Well, add the suction force to the weight (force) of the cleaner. It might be enough to do something(?)

Best example is the Kreepy Krauly. When the "foot pad" was worn to about half its original height the suctions was such that the cleaner couldn't move. It happens with others as well. If the suction is such that it can actually "scrub" the wall/bottom, the cleaner, usually, won't go anywhere. Most, if not all, suction cleaners have a means of adjusting the flow through them to mitigate that issue.

 

[Padle]

I owned a robot for 5 years and went back to using a suction cleaner because I don’t feel they are worth the excessive cost for me. I now use Pentair Kreepy Krawly Sandshark. No scrubbing.

But here’s the thing - I was never convinced my robots scrubbing did anything anyway. So do you think a suction cleaner with a scrubbing brush will really do anything useful?

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t get one of those cleaners. Just that I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Automatic cleaners should do one thing really well - pick up leaves and dirt. Anything else is of secondary importance.

And, being honest, I don’t do a lot of manual scrubbing/brushing and my pool hasn’t really suffered because of my laziness.

How often do you scrub, and has your pool seen algae at all due to "your laziness"?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

How often do you scrub, and has your pool seen algae at all due to "your laziness"?

I “brush” my pool when I add chemicals … which is maybe once every ten days. Or I brush when there’s debris on a step ledge … I never have algae but that’s because algae isn’t a “brushing” issue. It’s a poor sanitation issue. No one ever “doesn’t get algae” because they brush … you don’t get algae when your water chemistry is correct.

 

[Padle]

… I never have algae but that’s because algae isn’t a “brushing” issue. It’s a poor sanitation issue. No one ever “doesn’t get algae” because they brush … you don’t get algae when your water chemistry is correct.

From what I understand from this forum, even if the pool is balanced, there can be spots in the pool with poor chemistry, and then the algae attaches to the wall, that the reason for brushing.

I would love to just balance my pool and not brush if that works

 

[JoyfulNoise]

From what I understand from this forum, even if the pool is balanced, there can be spots in the pool with poor chemistry, and then the algae attaches to the wall, that the reason for brushing.

I would love to just balance my pool and not brush if that works

If you have visible algae growing anywhere in your pool then it is by definition not balanced or properly sanitized. In that case you follow the SLAM Method to eradicate the algae with one of the main exit criteria being “No visible algae anywhere”.

Sure, pools are not very hydraulically efficient in their mixing of the water and so running a cleaner and brushing periodically is a good way to make sure the water stays well mixed. But if you are relying on brushing to remove algae, then there is a problem with sanitation.

Brushing, vacuuming, and filtering are things you do to keep the water and pool physically clean if dirt and debris. That is the primary purpose. None of those things are meant to deal with biological or chemical contamination; that is chlorine’s purpose.

So in the end, all I’m saying is - don’t base your decision on which cleaner to buy based on a function that it’s not really intended to perform. No robot, pump driven or electrical, scrubs anywhere near as well as a human and a wall brush. Any advertising in contrary of that is simply marketing nonsense to get you to buy something.

 

[Padle]

I have no algae that I know of, this was all for the purpose of preventative maintenance.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[bradgray]

I have no algae that I know of, this was all for the purpose of preventative maintenance.

Thanks for all the info!

Understood. It's always nice to take advantage of tech to make our lives easier!

I'd argue a multifaceted benefit is an awareness that you'd be missing. It's good to get eyes on the pool when brushing. We find that's the process that tunes us into the plasters condition more than anything else.

We do a lot of VR home and guests stain pools and scratch chairs and toys all over the plaster and brushing is where we identify what was fixable and what wasn't.

I'd argue certain levels of automation actually put us at risk for more grief than they solved. Take vehicle back-up cameras or sensors for instance; I ran over my kids bike in my work truck recently because I parked it in my driveway against the norm, and I'm so conditioned by having that system with my other home truck...

 

[Padle]

I owned a robot for 5 years and went back to using a suction cleaner because I don’t feel they are worth the excessive cost for me. I now use Pentair Kreepy Krawly Sandshark. No scrubbing.

But here’s the thing - I was never convinced my robots scrubbing did anything anyway. So do you think a suction cleaner with a scrubbing brush will really do anything useful?

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t get one of those cleaners. Just that I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Automatic cleaners should do one thing really well - pick up leaves and dirt. Anything else is of secondary importance.

And, being honest, I don’t do a lot of manual scrubbing/brushing and my pool hasn’t really suffered because of my laziness.

I have noticed on the forums you used to be a big proponent of the robot cleaners. What changed? Is the cost a lot more than you expected?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have noticed on the forums you used to be a big proponent of the robot cleaners. What changed? Is the cost a lot more than you expected?

The way are the designed to be not repairable by the owner and the refusal of Dolphin to sell critical spare parts led me to conclude that they care more about making money than making a good product. My dead robot could have been fixed with the purchase of $30 motor but Dolphin will not sell them. Instead they require you to buy an entirely new motor assembly for $450. That’s ridiculous. That and the fact that my suction cleaner does an equally good job at cleaning my pool. So while I initially liked the robot, reality and ownership took the shine off of youthful enthusiasm. Robots are, hands down, the most expensive way to clean a pool. Some people are ok with that expense. I am not. That’s pretty much the story.

 

[phonedave]

The only place that I need to brush in order to adequately mix my water is around my stairs, which a robot would likely not get to anyway.

I have had a number of suction side cleaners. I have found that they are usually more trouble than they are worth.

 

[Padle]

The only place that I need to brush in order to adequately mix my water is around my stairs, which a robot would likely not get to anyway.

I have had a number of suction side cleaners. I have found that they are usually more trouble than they are worth.

It seems to me, that as with many other things in life, it's just luck of the draw.

Some people get a robot and they work no problem for 5 years, and some people within a year or two expenses pile up.

Same with suction cleaners.

To be sure there are better and worse brands, but even good brands can have issues.

If you have a bad experience, that will definitely shape your opinion.

 

[Padle]

As far as the decision, robot or suction side. So I went into Leslie's to inquire about Polaris maxx (suction side) and she gave reasons not to get it.

She said if your gonna leave it in the pool all the time (which I would) 1. It (the vaccum) will erode faster 2. The vaccum hose will block surface debris from getting to the skimmer 3. When my current pump dies, I will need to buy per code, a VS pump, which I will need to bump up the RPMs of If I want to vaccum 4. There's no reason to have a vaccum in the pool all the time anyway because the pool only needs a vaccum once a week.

I'm not sure if she was trying to sell me on a robot, or what her intention was.

Either way are her points correct?

Personally,

The issue with robots is as joyfulnoise points out, they have gotten even more expensive. Marina quoted me 859 for the active 20.

Though if there's a device out there that would get me out of brushing my pool, id be all in.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

It seems to me, that as with many other things in life, it's just luck of the draw.

Some people get a robot and they work no problem for 5 years, and some people within a year or two expenses pile up.

Same with suction cleaners.

To be sure there are better and worse brands, but even good brands can have issues.

If you have a bad experience, that will definitely shape your opinion.

I wouldn’t say my experience was “bad” with my robot. I got about 5 seasons out of it. What I did come to realize is that the Dolphin robots are “engineered for failure” such that it makes more sense to buy a new robot when one fails rather than try to fix it. That’s a business model decision that the parent company, Maytronics, has made. I simply don’t agree with it and it results in the pool owner having to lay out a large sun of money clean their pool. They could be engineered much better but that would then require Maytronics to stock parts and take on the responsibility of managing their products life cycle with more robust Warranty terms. They simply don’t want to deal with that and so they take the route of wastefulness instead - you get what you get and when it fails throw it in the trash and buy a new one. It’s the millennial age belief in wasteful consumerism - “I don’t want to take responsibility for the stuff I own, just give me new stuff …”. I suppose that’s how most people operate these days and it’s sad.

On a side note - my Maytag washing machine and dryer (10 years old) are finally being given the heave-ho and I’ve decided to upgrade to much better, and simpler, technology … Speed Queen classic series. I’m psyched to go back to machines that don’t need fancy and expensive-to-replace digital control boards. The Speed Queen classics are designed with simpler knobs and buttons. The tub is porcelain coated steel and the wash basket is all steel construction. You add detergents to the tub so there’s no dispenser systems with a half dozen hoses to potentially leak and fail. Water goes in one way and gets pumped out one way, that’s it. All the components are in the front of the machine right behind the access panel and easily reached. It’s 1960’s design with a modern tech behind it … I’m so psyched. The Maytag’s did their job for 10 years but, like most modern appliances, they are barely serviceable by any normal human being and their parts are expensive. We do a lot of laundry in my home and chew through machines at a fast clip so I’m looking forward to a much more reliable and serviceable design.

 

[bradgray]

Understood. It's always nice to take advantage of tech to make our lives easier!

I'd argue a multifaceted benefit is an awareness that you'd be missing. It's good to get eyes on the pool when brushing. We find that's the process that tunes us into the plasters condition more than anything else.

We do a lot of VR home and guests stain pools and scratch chairs and toys all over the plaster and brushing is where we identify what was fixable and what wasn't.

I'd argue certain levels of automation actually put us at risk for more grief than they solved. Take vehicle back-up cameras or sensors for instance; I ran over my kids bike in my work truck recently because I parked it in my driveway against the norm, and I'm so conditioned by having that system with my other home truck...

I can't help but restate that there really isn't a device that gonna "get [you] out of brushing" without blindspots/consequences.

I'll add that we don't use Robotic cleaners in our area much because they can't pick up (or more accurately, capture) our sand and the plaster will stain unless we brush it with a real brush and real muscle each week or more.

 

[1poolman1]

As far as the decision, robot or suction side. So I went into Leslie's to inquire about Polaris maxx (suction side) and she gave reasons not to get it.

She said if your gonna leave it in the pool all the time (which I would) 1. It (the vaccum) will erode faster 2. The vaccum hose will block surface debris from getting to the skimmer 3. When my current pump dies, I will need to buy per code, a VS pump, which I will need to bump up the RPMs of If I want to vaccum 4. There's no reason to have a vaccum in the pool all the time anyway because the pool only needs a vaccum once a week.

I'm not sure if she was trying to sell me on a robot, or what her intention was.

Either way are her points correct?

Personally,

The issue with robots is as joyfulnoise points out, they have gotten even more expensive. Marina quoted me 859 for the active 20.

Though if there's a device out there that would get me out of brushing my pool, id be all in.

Most, if not all, auto cleaners (not counting robots) are in the pool continually. You vacuum/clean a pool when it gets dirty, which is 24/7. A suction cleaner will do that quite nicely. Usually, with a VSP, you can ramp the RPM up for the time it takes to clean then back down again to "polish" the water or keep the SWG making chlorine. My neighbor's Hayward Pool Vac has been in his pool daily for at least 15 years (I sold it to him). Changed the feet a few of times, gear-box once so far, no corrosion. They're designed to be in the water continually (unless people are in the pool, kids will try to ride them). Since the hose moves it will get out of the way of the skimmer, unless it is plugged into the skimmer. Even then there are ways to allow the pool to skim and vacuum (Vac-Mate) if you don't have a dedicated cleaner line/port.

 

[phonedave]

As far as the decision, robot or suction side. So I went into Leslie's to inquire about Polaris maxx (suction side) and she gave reasons not to get it.

She said if your gonna leave it in the pool all the time (which I would) 1. It (the vaccum) will erode faster 2. The vaccum hose will block surface debris from getting to the skimmer 3. When my current pump dies, I will need to buy per code, a VS pump, which I will need to bump up the RPMs of If I want to vaccum 4. There's no reason to have a vaccum in the pool all the time anyway because the pool only needs a vaccum once a week.

I'm not sure if she was trying to sell me on a robot, or what her intention was.

Either way are her points correct?

Personally,

The issue with robots is as joyfulnoise points out, they have gotten even more expensive. Marina quoted me 859 for the active 20.

Though if there's a device out there that would get me out of brushing my pool, id be all in.

When I said that I found suction side cleaners to be more trouble than they are worth, I was talking about exactly what she said.

You cannot just leave them in the pool. The hose blocks the skimmer, the cleaner floats everywhere, and sometimes it looses prime.

I also found them to be very touchy to get working correctly. Too little suction and they just sit there. Too much and the climb out of the pool. Between having to set the thing up each time, futz around with the pressure to get it just right, and then to come back after an hour to find it wedged into the stairs or cleaning the waterline for the 20th time because it decide to crawl up the wall, it was faster and less frustrating for me to set up the manual vacuum and be done with it.

I am looking at robots for the future. If you were local I would say come over and borrow one of the three suction side cleaners I have in my shed and see if you like it.