Overlay porcelain pavers over existing concrete deck?

[BigLebowski]

We are hoping to update our concrete pool deck that is approximately 35 years old. It’s in good condition with no cracks, just looks dated. We want to install EverBlue porcelain pavers that look like thermal bluestone. Our hardscaper thought we might be able to leave the existing 2” thick concrete deck in place and overlay the 3/4” tiles directly on top. Obviously, that would save a ton of $$ and effort if we don’t need to tear up the concrete slab. If so, he would chip out the cantilevered concrete edge and mortar in a 3/4” thick x 12” porcelain bullnose coping. To fill in the 2” gap, he would would also mortar in a 2” piece of porcelain that would be flush with the waterline tiles to create a new coping system. Would that work? Would it look weird to have the 3/4” bullnose coping cantilevered on top of a 2” matching piece of porcelain, then transitioning to the waterline tiles? Anything else we should be thinking about ? The coping assembly would now be close to 3” instead of 2” might look too “chunky.”

I assume we’ll need to change the waterline tiles at the same time. To save money, was planning to convert the plaster finish (currently in “fair” condition to mini-pebbles) in a few years.

 

[ajw22]

Make sure an expansion joint is properly created when you change your deck from cantilevered to coping....

Expansion Joints and Coping - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You will be adding an inch for the final step out of the pool. Make sure that will not cause a problem for people to handle. What is the step height from the last step to the deck now?

 

[BigLebowski]

This is super helpful!! I wonder if we can keep the concrete pool deck cantilevered, but just remove about an inch of overhang and cover with matching porcelain paver. That should preserverthe existing joints, but would add just shy of an inch to the pool deck. (I pasted a pdf drawing to illustrate the idea).

Unfortunately, when I measured the first step in (last step out), it was about 10”. So, if we make the deck an inch higher, we are looking at almost 11”, which I assume is a no go. The second step is currently also 10” and the last two are 9 3/8ths.

Any ideas or feedback? Other than the stairs, is the porcelain tile overlay a good way to go? Is it possible to “adjust” the stair height when we resurface the pool or should we just getting rid of the entire existing concrete deck and start from scratch? Any other suggestions?

 

[BigLebowski]

Also, the concrete was thicker (3.5") than I first thought if that matters. Maybe it can be ground down a bit?

 

[ajw22]

Here is a recent discussion about pool step heights...

Step height

I was looking at code specs for steps, I have stadium steps that are 11" and the top is a little over 14" which is pretty uncomfortable for my wife. I was on the ISCSC site a read this 809.5.2 Riser heights. Risers, other than the top and bottom riser, shall have a uniform height of not greater...

www.troublefreepool.com

12" should be the maximum step height so 11" can work if your measurements are good. Some people do struggle with a high step height. If you measure the step height in your house I think you will find it is usually around 8".

I would keep the cantilevered deck and cap the end as you showed. Be sure that the end cap does not touch the pool and compromise your expansion joint.

 

[BigLebowski]

Thanks so much!! I didn’t realize the rise in steps could be higher in a pool than inside a home.

If this works, it would be a much, much easier way to resurface the deck. I’m meeting with the hardscaper next week and will let you know how it goes. (Hopefully, if all goes well, I can share some good before/after pics).

 

[ajw22]

Thanks so much!! I didn’t realize the rise in steps could be higher in a pool than inside a home.

It is assumed the buoyancy of the water gives you a bit of a lift stepping up.

 

[lakeboater]

I recently did a pool reno with porcelain pavers. See my post with pictures. Pool Renovation in SW Florida.

 

[lakeboater]

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[BigLebowski]

Thanks for all of the incredibly helpful feedback! @lakeboater really beautiful work!

We had the mason who works with our pool company come out and he recommended leaving the concrete deck in place and using thinset to adhere the 2cm porcelain pavers to the current deck. He would also cut back the current 2" overhang and extend the waterline tiles up to the new porcelain coping. I asked if he was concerned about tiling over the expansion joint and he said the newer grouts they use are more flexible. I've made a mock-up of what this would look like ("option 1"). We also weren't planning on raising the skimmers, so about 3.5" more of waterline tile would be showing.

Alternatively, we could do something like "option 2", where where we cut back the existing concrete deck by about an inch and basically clad it with the porcelain pavers. Effectively, we'd be mocking up a new coping over the existing cantilevered deck, and the finished product would be about an inch thicker (now 4.5"). Also, my guess is that with the thin joint hidden under the top porcelain paver that overhangs, it would look probably like one piece coping.

The plus side seems to be that we'd preserve the expansion joint. But, I'm not sure whether a 4.5" thick deck would look weird or chunky. Or, if we went the other route ("option 1"), if 10" of waterline tiles would look weird. I am usually inclined to go with what the pros recommend. While the mason who came by does a lot of pool work and was nice, and I am not sure his suggestion is the best way to go. Would love any other suggestions or thoughts based on the two options (or any others).

BTW, the paver rep came by from "ever blue" and the pavers look amazing. Even better than real blue stone. Top notch!

 

[ajw22]

I asked if he was concerned about tiling over the expansion joint and he said the newer grouts they use are more flexible.

I advise you not to do that.

The tile is not flexible and the mason will be long gone when things begin cracking in a few years.

 

[BigLebowski]

Thanks @ajw22!! That's what I think as well. I wonder how my "cladding" solution ("option 2") would look? Has anyone created a thicker pool overhang coping? Ours would be 4.5" We still want a clean modern look. Here's an image from the paver company website of how the "thin" coping looks, which seems really nice.

Also, our pool company mentioned that they've switched from using sikaflex over the expansion joint to a "flexible grout." They claim that it does a better job long-term and that when it fails, it doesn't damage the underlying structure and is easier to repair. Again, not sure this makes 100% sense. I'm also getting a second pool company out to get their thoughts.

Thanks again!

 

[ajw22]

Exactly what product is this "flexible grout"?

 

[ajw22]

They claim that it does a better job long-term

and how long-term have they been using this product?

and that when it fails, it doesn't damage the underlying structure and is easier to repair.

What does that mean? When Sikaflex "fails" the underlying structure is not damaged. Repair is simply by scraping old product out of the joint and putting new product in.

Again, not sure this makes 100% sense. I'm also getting a second pool company out to get their thoughts.

What you are being told is sketchy.

 

[sande005]

I'd wonder about having any of the new pavers overhanging. I'd worry about an edge breaking off someday in the future, with no support under the cantilevered part. Plus perhaps a skin scraper as people boost themselves out of the pool onto the deck.

 

[BigLebowski]

Thanks @sande005 ! It’s a good point. It’s probably easier to make it flush with the pool surface (and that way it will also be easier to set in place—-just use spacers to keep the joint open).

On a separate note, I am being quoted $45/ft to install the porcelain pavers over the existing deck (including materials, which is $8/ft for pavers and $30/ft for the finished edge that we’ll use for coping). Does that sound right? Seems high to me.

 

[sande005]

Can't comment on the price - but back when I did my kitchen, and then later my fireplace, the really high costs drove me to DIY. But I wouldn't be qualified at all to trust my work on an outdoor install around a pool. All you can do is see if there are any others that would quote the job.

 

[SunnyP2000]

I had porcelain pavers installed on a 4" concrete base with about 2" of dry pak (sand & concrete mix). While it's not exactly a renovation, it's a similar concept. I chose a Dark Gray bluestone border because I didn't want porcelain as the coping. Surprisingly, my tiles don't have any grout, and you really can't tell. Given our harsh weather with heavy snow and freezing rain, I think this was the best option, and it has worked out well for me. All tiles are floating , I can remove and change a tile without any issues anytime. My patio is about 4 years old, and I've had no issues. If you click the link in the picture in my signature, you can see a drone view of the pool.

Maybe you should consider breaking the concrete coping and installing stone coping as border which is lot thicker (1.5" ) like mine so you have no issue with coping breaking off. Good luck

 

[lakeboater]

My paver base was dry pack as well. I stated sand in my write up. Good luck with the project!