Our House Anchor

[jay_mcc2]

So begins my first pool build. Quick backstory. Wife and I have lived in our house for over 10 years. It's our starter home. We have several times started and stopped looking for a new and bigger house to move into. One of the things that we want in a new home is a bigger yard for the kids to play in, our current yard is on the small side, this will become important later on. Living south of Houston in our area it has been difficult to find a new home that we liked and felt was worth the significant new investment. Well we just stopped looking again (still have not told our realtor). Instead we decided to fill in our yard with "brand new pool". Since this pool is intended to have the affect of keeping us in our home for another 10+ years, hence the title "House Anchor".

We currently have a large 27' x 14' patio in our backyard, a 5' easement on one side and 7' easement on the back fence. We have three trees, a maple, an orange tree and a large pecan. The maple tree is being turned into firewood. I am going to try and transplant the orange. But the large pecan has to stay. It provides gorgeous shade to my yard that I don't want to lose. So our pool will have to fit around and in these parameters.

We currently have interview three PB's. One is a custom designer and independent pool builder. Another is more of a production pool builder. The last is a home remodeler who is getting into the pool building game.

The wife wants a rustic free form pool with tanning ledge and rock water fall. I want a deep end and the biggest bang for my buck and to spend as few of those bucks as possible. Between the two of us I am sure that we present a descent challenge for any PB.

I will keep this post updated with my pool build status. I appreciate any and all advice or recommendations.

 

[kimkats]

In to watch this one for sure!!!

Kim

 

[jay_mcc2]

Here is the quote from the first pool builder. It is a small custom firm. When he came over he actually told us that he is so good at building pools we are getting a deal by having him design one for us. Our pool is on the lower end of what they do, but I have been impressed so far with what he has shown so far.

When he first came over, at 10:30 in the morning, he already had our survey. We went in the backyard and discussed a few options. Then we went back in and sat at the kitchen table. The PB sat with us until 1:30 in the afternoon designing and discussing our pool. He came up with the entire design on the spot and provided a quote as well. I definitely did not expect him to get me a quote immediately. And we really like the design. He provided a youtube of our pool design, even put us in it (the idealized versions of us anyway).

Here are some pictures and the video.







Here is the quote that was provided by this pool builder.

Custom Lagoon Style Design

87' Perimeter pool 31' x 22' 484' Sq. ft. Surface area
868' sq.ft. Internal surface w/ 14,849 Gallons
Gunite Concrete Shell # 3 - # 41/2 steel


Steel Schedule 8*' on Center BoxBeam foundation

Excavation

42 day build time start to finish

Remove section of wood fence for tractor access

Equipment S750 Excavator
Pre-grade & set elevations
Building & Engineering Plans


Homeowner's ARC Plan Submittal
Tri-Level Baja Entrance w/ 2 Water Bubblers
6" Tile line

2 LED color Pool Lights
Dual Interior Comfort Ledge



Wet-Edge® Level 1 Pebbles interior Finish
wetedgetechnologies.com


Special Feature
5' x 3' on beam Natural Moss Rock Waterfall Feature w/
Multiple water pours

Kool Concrete Decking


458' sq. ft. 4" Concrete Based w/ Kool Deck Selective Colors
308' Sq.ft. Covered patio Kool Deck Top coat finish






********Deck and Area Drains included to Street **********

Equipment Package:
*SwimClear™ Multi-ElementHayward Pool Equipment Information


*1.7 hp.VS Variable Speed Circulation pump ............Included Eco star Pump Video
*C450 Cartridge Filter
*Robotic Shark Pool CleanerShark Vac Video
*Dual Port skimmers
*7 Return Lines w/ inline Chlorinator
* Anti-Vortex VGB Rated Drain


* Schedule # 40 PVC Plumbing
* Equipment pad reinforced 4" concrete w/ overhead light & GFCI Outlet

Project includes: All Electrical runs
Advanced Dedicated lines Duel Port skimmers and Anti-Vortex Main Drain
Overflow release & Autofill line
Yard Clean up
Start Up OrientationSuper test Kit


Telescope net and Brush
Owner's Manual

Any input or comments based on this quote? It is the first pool quote I have ever got so not sure what should be included or detailed.

 

[jay_mcc2]

We have a second design from the production pool builder. This design is his second attempt based on our input. Unfortunatly our communication somehow created a pool design that I would not want in my backyard, see image below. I am not sure if you can see what we do in the pool, it is defintley suggestive of a certain body part unique to men. We are not satisfied with this design to say the least and still have not got a quote, he said it will be coming next week.

I'd like to hear what you think of this one.





Pool Size: 19'6"X 33'
Pool Perimeter: 89'
Pool Area: 389 SQ Ft
Pool Gallons: 11,536
Decking: 321 SQ Ft

 

[Pv2]

LOL @ #2!

Actually not bad for swimming, but how could you ever NOT think about that??

 

[Dirk]

OMG!! Classic!

Well what did you expect from a designer named Preferred Pools of Houston? Otherwise known as the "P.P. Pool" people!!

 

[jay_mcc2]

LOL @ #2!

Actually not bad for swimming, but how could you ever NOT think about that??

I have been looking at it for awhile and once I get past the visual and see just the pool, I agree, it’s a nice pool for our yard. But the dimensions compared to the custom pool builder makes the size of it seem so much smaller, no pun intended (sorry, couldn’t help myself )

When comparing pool dimensions what is the most important factor to consider to determine which pool is “larger”? Square footage of water surface? Gallons? Perimeter or max length/width?

 

[tldude876]

I prefer the look of #1. We are looking to get a pool installed as well and #2 company came out last Friday to give us a design.

 

[zea3]

In addition to surface area you also have to take depth into consideration. A deeper pool adds more gallons without adding more usable pool area.

Think about how you are going to use this pool. Do you see a lot of pool parties with friends hanging out in the pool? You will want a lot of standable pool area for that, or lots of room for floats to hang out on. A narrow, deep pool is difficult to just hang out in.

If it is going to be mostly your little family unit, how long do you see yourself at this house, and how old are the kids? If they are very young you will need to fence off the pool. Little ones are excellent outside the box thinkers (they don't know the box exsists!) and what ever measures you take to secure the pool you need to look at any possible ways they could defeat it. Location and shape play into that equation. Ask the builders to incorporate a child proof pool fence into the design.

I also like the look of pool 1. Pool 2 would improve alot if they remove the phallic curves and make it a true L shape, or lose a little of the covered patio and straighten some of the sharp bend to take out that suggestive angle. Instead of the tiny sitting self at the "foot" of the pool, I would put a larger bench that encompassed the whole corner of that rock garden area and use the "foot" as the deep end jumping spot with a small swim out to the side.

Are either of the pools considering a saltwater chlorine generator? Are permits included in the bid? What is the payout structure? If you pay for the majority of the pool up front that leaves you little leverage to correct any problems at the end of the build. A builder is more likely to walk away from a $2000 balance than a $10000 balance if there are issues that need correcting. Ask for references of homeowners who you can contact and ask questions about their build.

The comment from builder #1 does give me a little pause. If his attitude is that he is doing you a favor by even considering to build your pool, how much extra is he charging you for his expertise, and is he going to stick with the project or will it be back burnered in favor of a more lucrative build should one come along?

Ask for line by line cost breakdowns so you can compare apples to apples as much as possible when weighing the merits of each bid.

 

[jay_mcc2]

Ok, we have narrowed in on our PB and have a proposed contract. Any recommendations to adjust on this?

Basic Dimensions
Freeform Pool
LxW: 30'x20'
Surface Area: 422 sqft
Perimeter: 82'
Gallons: 12,982
Depth: 3.5 - 6'

Features
WetEdge Satin Matrix Cat 1
10'x5' Tanning Ledge
1 Swimout bench (should be two)
2 Bubblers in tanning ledge
2 ton Moss Rock waterfall with Cantilever rock
2 Umbrella Sleeves

Equipment
400 - C4030 Hayward Cartridge Filter
Maxflo Pool Pump (1.7hp VS?)
2 Pool skimmers
5 Returns
Dual Main Drain
Letro Water Levelor installed
2 Universal ColorLogic Pool Light (LED)
AquaRite Salt Generator T-Cell 15
Hayward Shark Vac w/Caddy
Pool Drain to street
Spraydeck deck coating

Extras
Remove Tree stump (I will cut down tree)
Sawcut 15' existing patio

We have also picked out some of our finishes, I will post a pick of those once my wife sends it to me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Brentr]

Jay I prefer the layout of number 1. The wife always want more entertaining space. Plan on addition for summer kitchen and being able to watch TV from the pool comfortably. We have a SPOOL aka social pool and would not trade it for anything else. If you add lots of benches you would be able to eliminate the tanning area which takes up valuable space. Look at our pool build in the sig bar for ideas. Congrats on your new pool build

 

[jay_mcc2]

Any comments or suggestions to our contract? I am emailing him about the few things that I have and would appreciate any second opinions that someone wants to share. TIA.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Wow.... I was impressed they do SWG. So many Texas builders balk at them for some unknown reason. Or am I mistaken and you had to insist on that part??

Please ask about a handrail! You *can* go without it, but folks later find they need one and its a PITN to add after the fact. You can always have the sheath put into the decking and capped off until you need it (say and elderly relative visits, or you've had an injury that slows you down a bit). This is really important, 'k?
Maddie

 

[Dirk]

Wow.... I was impressed they do SWG. So many Texas builders balk at them for some unknown reason. Or am I mistaken and you had to insist on that part??

Please ask about a handrail! You *can* go without it, but folks later find they need one and its a PITN to add after the fact. You can always have the sheath put into the decking and capped off until you need it (say and elderly relative visits, or you've had an injury that slows you down a bit). This is really important, 'k?
Maddie

+1 for future handrail.

 

[jay_mcc2]

Wow.... I was impressed they do SWG. So many Texas builders balk at them for some unknown reason. Or am I mistaken and you had to insist on that part??

It is very odd, of all the PB we got quotes from all recommended against the SWG. No real reason was given, other than by the PB we decided to use, he said it would effect the natural stone that is used in the coping and waterfall. And even though they all recommended against them, they still had the SWG pamphlets and sample equipment in their showrooms. Once we insisted on the SWG there were no arguments or suggestions otherwise. Once we did request the SWG, they also suggested the ozone and UV systems to add on, which I politely declined.

I don't really understand it. Not sure if it is a regional thing or other areas see the same responses from PB regarding SWG. In all of my research, I have seen few (any?) detriments to using SWG. I personally think the benefits are mainly in convenience, not sure about the overall cost savings once you factor in replacing the salt cell every 4-6 years.

Regardless, we are getting the SWG and pool build should start in the next few weeks.

 

[Dirk]

There is no substantial cost savings with an SWG. There is some thinking that the cost of using chlorine for the same length of time an SWG will last is about the same as the cost of an SWG. It's probably pretty close. (Heck, they're probably priced that way!) Some here have worked extensively on the subject. Suffice to say, over time, the costs of two methods of sanitation are pretty close. One you pay up front, the other every week. In your case, the primary disadvantage of using an SWG, if you've never managed a pool without one, is that you'll never fully appreciate the convenience they provide. So you'll just have to take our word for it!! They're awesome. You've made a good decision.

Well, I take that back. You'll have to run your pool without salt for the first month, so no SWG during that time. You'll get the gist of it!

I think PBs shun SWGs for the same reason many people think saltwater ruins coping. So they don't want to risk having to replace your decking. The irony, all pools are saltwater pools after a few years...

 

[#40Fan]

If I was a PB, I'd be looking at it as another issue that could go wrong, upset the customer and eventually look bad on me. You have to look at the grand scheme of things when you have people out there that can stub their toe pulling a sock over their foot. Not many people would have the kind of knowledge it would take to understand how an SWG works or even maintain it.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

As an example of why getting a oversized cell- My cell is 7 years old, going strong and we have never cleaned it. We run it on 10-20% for about 8 hours now a day. Running your cell low helps extend its life.

Moral of this story- make sure you get a cell at least 2x the size of your pool. You won't regret it.

Maddie

 

[jay_mcc2]

We received the detailed build print from our PB. We are getting pretty excited!!!

 

[Dirk]

Wow, that looks great. I love all the curves, in pool and deck. Really great. And the two benches. And the steps/shelf combo.

How deep? Pools can be designed to work fine without drains. More and more are being built without them. I had mine removed, and really like the look of no drains, plus the safety issues. With your roundish shape, I'd imagine drains would not be needed at all to achieve good circulation. If you or PB are set on drains, there are some that are very subtle looking, some can be camouflaged with the pebble surface.

I have a thing about seeing light bulbs. Anywhere. I like ambient light and hate ceiling cans. Have a look at the light on the right, and how that's going to impact your primary sitting areas. Will that light be shining in your eyes? Personally, I don't like my pool all lit up bright, especially when I'm in it at night. I'd rather have one light than two, if one was shining into the house or sitting area. Or consider moving the light on the right closer to skimmer #2, so that one light lit up the left half, the other the right half, but they both shine away from house and patio. The bench might cast a shadow, so that might have to move to the right some. At the very least, ask that each light be wired separately to the pad, so that you could put them on different circuits if you wanted to (so that you could turn either on independently).

I'd draw cones out from the lights, to approximate from where you'd be able to see the light fixture itself, to determine how that will all work.