That sounds great. Yes, you should be able to let the FC level come down on it's own now. Keep an eye on it. If the algae is all dead the water should clear up noticeably each day.
Opened yesterday, when should I start testing?
- Thread starter Gooserider
- Start date
Thanks, glad to see I'm starting to get my head around the ideas on this... It will be hard to see the water get much better as it really looks nice now, at least except when the robot finds a crud patch...JasonLion said:
One minor thing I've noticed when testing, is that if I leave a DPD test sitting in the vial after getting the two changes to clear for FC and CC, it will turn pink again after a few minutes... Is this normal / OK? What is the process that makes this happen?
Gooserider
Gooserider said:
Yes this is normal. IT will turn pink again after one minute, just ignore it.
Looks like things are doing pretty well -
It rained and / or was quite cloudy on Wednesday and Thursday, got a little sun this afternoon, but not much...
Checking the pool this evening, I ran everything but CYA - since I added some on the 26th, I shouldn't test that for another few days if I understand the way it takes a while to dissolve... I'm guessing it should be around 20-25
Results...
FC 9
CC 0.5 (I seem to get that every time - I add the 003 after the sample goes clear the first time, and get just a faint touch of pink - then one drop of 871 clears it up again - am I doing things right and getting a typical result, or am I being over fussy about it "turning red after adding the 871"?)
TC 9.5
The chlorine is droping slowly, but I guess that is normal considering that I haven't had much sun...
pH 7.3 (a bit low, but not bad)
TA 100 (still a bit high, but slowly dropping, and not all that bad either)
CH 290
Water still looks great, and the pump pressure is staying right where it belongs for a clean filter.
Hoping to go shopping for borax this weekend and start putting that in...
Gooserider 8)
It rained and / or was quite cloudy on Wednesday and Thursday, got a little sun this afternoon, but not much...
Checking the pool this evening, I ran everything but CYA - since I added some on the 26th, I shouldn't test that for another few days if I understand the way it takes a while to dissolve... I'm guessing it should be around 20-25
Results...
FC 9
CC 0.5 (I seem to get that every time - I add the 003 after the sample goes clear the first time, and get just a faint touch of pink - then one drop of 871 clears it up again - am I doing things right and getting a typical result, or am I being over fussy about it "turning red after adding the 871"?)
TC 9.5
The chlorine is droping slowly, but I guess that is normal considering that I haven't had much sun...
pH 7.3 (a bit low, but not bad)
TA 100 (still a bit high, but slowly dropping, and not all that bad either)
CH 290
Water still looks great, and the pump pressure is staying right where it belongs for a clean filter.
Hoping to go shopping for borax this weekend and start putting that in...
Gooserider 8)
Getting just a tiny bit of CC is common for some pools and doesn't pose any problems. Running with FC just a little higher than usual for several weeks will sometimes get rid it, but sometimes it sticks around more or less forever.
JasonLion said:
OK, won't worry about it over much then... Glad to know it isn't a problem.
Will be heading out to purchase some borax soon, the Pool Calc says I need 14 boxes of 20 Mule Team, and 4 gallons of Acid - does that sound about right? It seems to match up with the borax sticky... (which might be good to move into "pool school" to make it easier to find)
One minor question - I have on hand about 10.5 lbs of BioGuard "Lo'n'Slo" pH reducer - according to the label it's 94.5% Sodium Bisulfate. I found another post that said this was the so-called "dry acid" so I assume I can use it instead of some of the MA? Any idea what the substitution ratio would be?
Gooserider
Given the large quantities involved, and the higher cost of dry acid, it is better not to use dry acid.
10 lbs of dry acid is about the same as one gallon, minus one cup, of muriatic acid.
10 lbs of dry acid is about the same as one gallon, minus one cup, of muriatic acid.
JasonLion said:
Agreed, but I had the "low'n'slow on hand, and am trying to use up my old "pool-store-era" chemicals to get them off the shelf...
At any rate, I went shopping for borax this afternoon - Had to go to TWO Wal-marts in order to get the 14 boxes needed, and cleaned out both stores - in both places I got comments from the clerks that they had been selling a great deal more than usual of it lately (Might be a subtle indicator that TPF is getting the word out...)
Wally-World didn't have any MA in stock though, and we had to come home before finding any due to some other commitments - About 5-7 I added the one gallon of OLD MA that had been around the house for over 15 years, and about 8 lbs of the Lo'n'Slow, along with 8 of the 14 boxes of Borax. I also set up a little bit of aeration by pointing one of my three return eyeballs up, and rigging another with a pipe that shoots the water up above the surface (but it's a pretty solid stream, I need to get something better tomorrow)
I let it set with the pool pump running and the robot going for a good bit of the time to let things circulate.
Just ran a set of tests about 11:30
OTO Cl - over range, but close
pH - 7.8
FC - 5
CC - barely 0.5
TC - 5.5
TA - 150-160 (Yes, I know that's way high....)
CH 280
I added the last 2 lbs or so of dry acid that I had on hand, I need to add a bunch more acid tomorrow (after shopping) and get some better aeration going, then add the rest of the borax and start the countdown to confirming that I have that at the right range...
Gooserider
Arghh... Forgot to post yesterdays results when I put them in...
Got 4 more gallons of MA at the local hardware store this afternoon.
I also picked up a bunch of plumbing fittings to make one of those fountain aerators - all 1" PVC... A coupler, a 45* elbow, a tee, 2 caps, and a 10' length of pipe.
Put in one gallon, then started working on the aerator - I picked 1" because I took one of my eyeball fittings with me, and found that a 1" coupler has an OD just bigger than that of the eyeball fitting. I chucked it in a lathe and took off just enough with a file and some sandpaper so that I could pull the eyeball fitting out of my first return, and jam the coupler in instead - Note that my pool plumbing is all 1.5" nominal PVC... (It could also have been done by hand, as I didn't remove that much material, it wasn't enough to make a cut with a lathe tool, probably only about .010" at most.)
I glued a 6" length of pipe into the coupler, then added the 45* (This length is mostly so that if I need to take it apart and modify it later I can...) I put a 3' length of pipe in the 45* which results in it sticking up in the air about a foot, with the end about 3' into the pool. I then glued the tee on the end of the 3' length so it would go crosswise. I then put a 2' length of pipe into each branch, with a cap on the end. I drilled a 1/8" diameter hole every 1/2" in a line down each pipe - this gives me a 4' wide tee sticking out of the water and shooting about 44 thin jets of water out about 2' into the pool - makes lots of bubbles...
I haven't decided yet whether or not I should try to add another row of jets or not... Per my numbers, the 44 jets that I have gives me a total area of 0.55 sq", while the 1" pipe has an area of 0.785 sq" - should I add more jets, or would that turn my fountain into a dribbler?
After I got the aerator in (took a while to make it, plus we had a lot of T-storms this afternoon that interupted things) I added a 2nd gallon of MA and my last 6 boxes of borax. Let it sit with the pump running until about 12:30, then ran another batch of tests...
OTO cl - 1 (I'm having a hard time reading that block!)
pH - 7.5
DPD
FC - 1.5
CC less than 0.5
TC ~2
TA - 140-150
CH - 280-290
Those last two tests I have a bit of a question on when to count the completion - seems like I will have a range where one drop takes the solution from the starting color to an intermediate "greyish" shade but NOT to the "end point" color, however a very definite color change, and the next drop goes to the "end point" - which drop is the one I should count?
looks to me like (and the pool calc agrees) I need to add about 1/2 gallon each of Chlorine and acid, and keep aerating like mad to get the TA down...
Currently my CSI
C seems to be a bit OK at -0.04, but dropping the pH down will push it out of range to -0.88, is this something to worry about? Presumably it will come back up as I get the TA down....
Gooserider
Got 4 more gallons of MA at the local hardware store this afternoon.
I also picked up a bunch of plumbing fittings to make one of those fountain aerators - all 1" PVC... A coupler, a 45* elbow, a tee, 2 caps, and a 10' length of pipe.
Put in one gallon, then started working on the aerator - I picked 1" because I took one of my eyeball fittings with me, and found that a 1" coupler has an OD just bigger than that of the eyeball fitting. I chucked it in a lathe and took off just enough with a file and some sandpaper so that I could pull the eyeball fitting out of my first return, and jam the coupler in instead - Note that my pool plumbing is all 1.5" nominal PVC... (It could also have been done by hand, as I didn't remove that much material, it wasn't enough to make a cut with a lathe tool, probably only about .010" at most.)
I glued a 6" length of pipe into the coupler, then added the 45* (This length is mostly so that if I need to take it apart and modify it later I can...) I put a 3' length of pipe in the 45* which results in it sticking up in the air about a foot, with the end about 3' into the pool. I then glued the tee on the end of the 3' length so it would go crosswise. I then put a 2' length of pipe into each branch, with a cap on the end. I drilled a 1/8" diameter hole every 1/2" in a line down each pipe - this gives me a 4' wide tee sticking out of the water and shooting about 44 thin jets of water out about 2' into the pool - makes lots of bubbles...
I haven't decided yet whether or not I should try to add another row of jets or not... Per my numbers, the 44 jets that I have gives me a total area of 0.55 sq", while the 1" pipe has an area of 0.785 sq" - should I add more jets, or would that turn my fountain into a dribbler?
After I got the aerator in (took a while to make it, plus we had a lot of T-storms this afternoon that interupted things) I added a 2nd gallon of MA and my last 6 boxes of borax. Let it sit with the pump running until about 12:30, then ran another batch of tests...
OTO cl - 1 (I'm having a hard time reading that block!)
pH - 7.5
DPD
FC - 1.5
CC less than 0.5
TC ~2
TA - 140-150
CH - 280-290
Those last two tests I have a bit of a question on when to count the completion - seems like I will have a range where one drop takes the solution from the starting color to an intermediate "greyish" shade but NOT to the "end point" color, however a very definite color change, and the next drop goes to the "end point" - which drop is the one I should count?
looks to me like (and the pool calc agrees) I need to add about 1/2 gallon each of Chlorine and acid, and keep aerating like mad to get the TA down...
Currently my CSI
C seems to be a bit OK at -0.04, but dropping the pH down will push it out of range to -0.88, is this something to worry about? Presumably it will come back up as I get the TA down....Gooserider
Gooserider said:OTO cl - 1 (I'm having a hard time reading that block!)
pH - 7.5
DPD
FC - 1.5
CC less than 0.5
TC ~2
TA - 140-150
CH - 280-290
Those last two tests I have a bit of a question on when to count the completion - seems like I will have a range where one drop takes the solution from the starting color to an intermediate "greyish" shade but NOT to the "end point" color, however a very definite color change, and the next drop goes to the "end point" - which drop is the one I should count?
looks to me like (and the pool calc agrees) I need to add about 1/2 gallon each of Chlorine and acid, and keep aerating like mad to get the TA down...
Currently my CSI
Gooserider
1) I can't read the OTO at all, I don't bother. Keep your FC above 2 at a minimum - you need to add more each day so that it doesn't go below 2.
2) The last drop is the final count.
3) I don't know - hopefully Jason will jump in and advise. My gut reaction is don't worry about it as you are adjusting this over such a short time you'll be fine and once your numbers are in range it won't be an issue.
You count up to and including the last drop that causes a change.
I think CSI being out of range briefly is okay, you'll be bringing pH right back up with the aeration.
--paulr
I think CSI being out of range briefly is okay, you'll be bringing pH right back up with the aeration.
--paulr
OK, thanks for the clarification on doing the readings...
I decided to drill a few more holes in my aerator today, added a second row of holes about a few degrees above the first row, and centered on the spaces between the first row, skipping every other space - IOW about 50% more holes... Still getting a good flow out of it, but not sure how much more in the way of bubbles, I think I will probably call it quits with this setup as I don't see it being worth doing a lot more to it. I do need to get a picture, will do so soon...
Todays readings...
CL block 2?
pH 7.2 - a bit low, but OK
FC 3.5
CC 0.5
TA 100 - good, that has come way down..
CH 280
CYA - about 25 - first time doing the test since I put some CYA in last week - looks like I still need a bit more.
So it looks like my TA is coming down nicely, but still has a ways to go, and I need to add more CYA - but not much...
As instructed by the Pool Calc, I added about a quart of acid, and a cup of bleach - it said to add 34 oz of CYA, but I only added 30, with the idea that this should still get me within the desired range, but still leave me a bit to play with if I need to...
On the bleach - is there any easy way to deal with the 5 gallon drums of 12%? It doesn't seem like the real ideal solution to measure it by the "glug"
but it's hard to pour small amounts...
How often should I bother with the CH test? It seems that has been really stable ever since I started, and I'm not really seeing much that would make it change in the stuff I'm adding... Hate to waste the chemistry on frequent testing if I don't need to.
Gooserider
I decided to drill a few more holes in my aerator today, added a second row of holes about a few degrees above the first row, and centered on the spaces between the first row, skipping every other space - IOW about 50% more holes... Still getting a good flow out of it, but not sure how much more in the way of bubbles, I think I will probably call it quits with this setup as I don't see it being worth doing a lot more to it. I do need to get a picture, will do so soon...
Todays readings...
CL block 2?
pH 7.2 - a bit low, but OK
FC 3.5
CC 0.5
TA 100 - good, that has come way down..
CH 280
CYA - about 25 - first time doing the test since I put some CYA in last week - looks like I still need a bit more.
So it looks like my TA is coming down nicely, but still has a ways to go, and I need to add more CYA - but not much...
As instructed by the Pool Calc, I added about a quart of acid, and a cup of bleach - it said to add 34 oz of CYA, but I only added 30, with the idea that this should still get me within the desired range, but still leave me a bit to play with if I need to...
On the bleach - is there any easy way to deal with the 5 gallon drums of 12%? It doesn't seem like the real ideal solution to measure it by the "glug"
but it's hard to pour small amounts...How often should I bother with the CH test? It seems that has been really stable ever since I started, and I'm not really seeing much that would make it change in the stuff I'm adding... Hate to waste the chemistry on frequent testing if I don't need to.
Gooserider
You don't need to test the CH often anymore, provided your other numbers are in range, and you aren't using any products like calhypo. Monthly ought to do it.
Note, adding CYA will lower your PH and TA some. Keep that in mind.
Also, have you tested the borates yet? Have you reached your target? Because TA of 100 is perfectly fine, especially if you don't have an SWG.
I don't have any tips on 5 gallon drums, sorry- never used em.
Note, adding CYA will lower your PH and TA some. Keep that in mind.
Also, have you tested the borates yet? Have you reached your target? Because TA of 100 is perfectly fine, especially if you don't have an SWG.
I don't have any tips on 5 gallon drums, sorry- never used em.
frustratedpoolmom said:
Good, will slack off on doing that test as often...
I saw notes that the CYA will impact my other numbers, but I don't think it will be a big factor, will see what things look like tonight... I was looking to get the TA to around 80, as the PC says my goal should be in the 70-90 range. I dropped pH down to a calculated 7.0 again last night and have been aerating steadily, so hopefully it should be about right by now - I was thinking that I would probably be about right tonight anyway.
I haven't tested the borates yet, as I just finished adding them on Sunday, and the Borate sticky said wait 48 hours before testing - it's on the plan for tonight 8)
No problem, perhaps someone else has an idea, or I could always use the search to see if it's been discussed to death already... :lol:
Fixing to go actually take the first dip of the season - probably freeze off certain anatomical bits,
but I've got the water looking so good it is hard to resist...Gooserider
70-90 is recommended, but not essential for non-swg pools. Mine TA ran at 110-120 for 2 seasons with no PH rise at all. Every pool is unique. Oh well, no matter.
Look in the "tips" thread, maybe something there.
Great job, it's been a pleasure!
Look in the "tips" thread, maybe something there.
Great job, it's been a pleasure!
Well did first dip this afternoon - spent about 2 minutes in the pool, and 20 in the shower trying to find things that hid... :lol: Water felt nice though, and I have never seen it so clear.
Todays readings -
OTO - 2?
pH - 7.2
FC - 5
CC - less than .5, call it .25?
TA - 110
Borates - 50-80 - pad was somewhere between, will call it 65 to keep the Pool Calc happy...
CSI - -0.46
Looks like I need to aerate some more, as the TA is still a bit high, and the pH is still low, but both are tolerable, so I'm not going to worry about them a lot... I need to confirm my CYA in a few days after doing the (hopefully) final addition last night, but it looks like I am now in "maintainance mode" where I'm mostly just going to need to worry about keeping on top of the Chlorine levels...
On the subject of testing alternatives - I still have a pretty large supply of test strips from my previous life as a pool store addict, and while I know people make rude remarks about their accuracy, would it work to use those as an intermediate test method now that I have things under control - i.e. use the strips most of the time, and just go back to the TF100 once a week or so? I figure that would help me stretch the good kit stuff out a bit.
I am not thrilled with the OTO test, it doesn't seem readable to me as I can't really see a difference in the reference blocks, let alone the test sample, but it seems like the reagents would go pretty fast if I did the DPD test every night - maybe the test strips would be easier to read?
Gooserider
Todays readings -
OTO - 2?
pH - 7.2
FC - 5
CC - less than .5, call it .25?
TA - 110
Borates - 50-80 - pad was somewhere between, will call it 65 to keep the Pool Calc happy...
CSI - -0.46
Looks like I need to aerate some more, as the TA is still a bit high, and the pH is still low, but both are tolerable, so I'm not going to worry about them a lot... I need to confirm my CYA in a few days after doing the (hopefully) final addition last night, but it looks like I am now in "maintainance mode" where I'm mostly just going to need to worry about keeping on top of the Chlorine levels...
On the subject of testing alternatives - I still have a pretty large supply of test strips from my previous life as a pool store addict, and while I know people make rude remarks about their accuracy, would it work to use those as an intermediate test method now that I have things under control - i.e. use the strips most of the time, and just go back to the TF100 once a week or so? I figure that would help me stretch the good kit stuff out a bit.
I am not thrilled with the OTO test, it doesn't seem readable to me as I can't really see a difference in the reference blocks, let alone the test sample, but it seems like the reagents would go pretty fast if I did the DPD test every night - maybe the test strips would be easier to read?
Gooserider
Goose,
I'll be honest. I don't test every day. Shhhh...don't tell the other Mods. They might take my Pod away. 
You'll "get to know" your pool. You'll know how much FC you lose each day, and get to the point where you can skip a day or even two, especially if you use a solar cover.
Say you test with the FAS-DPD on Monday. You add enough bleach to cover your FC for say 2 days, say you target 7. You can use the OTO on Tuesday, look to see if the color looks like a 5 or not. IF it doesn't look like a 5, break out the FAS-PDD and make sure. Wednesday p.m., retest with the FAS-DPD, repeat the process. After a while, you may be able to get a handle on what 5 is on the OTO, I have not. I don't bother with it anymore. But for quick checks to see if chlorine is present, it's great to use, and much more reliable than strips. I wouldn't use the strips.
Anyway, like I said, I don't test everyday anymore. In fact this spring, with the cold weather and the water temps so cold, my FC usage was around .5 a day and I was testing once a week, if that.
You'll get to that point, where you feel confident that you have a handle on things and not have to test nightly. As long as you are doing things right, you're pool is not going to turn green overnight if you miss one test. 
No worries!
I'll be honest. I don't test every day.
Shhhh...don't tell the other Mods. They might take my Pod away. You'll "get to know" your pool. You'll know how much FC you lose each day, and get to the point where you can skip a day or even two, especially if you use a solar cover.
Say you test with the FAS-DPD on Monday. You add enough bleach to cover your FC for say 2 days, say you target 7. You can use the OTO on Tuesday, look to see if the color looks like a 5 or not. IF it doesn't look like a 5, break out the FAS-PDD and make sure. Wednesday p.m., retest with the FAS-DPD, repeat the process. After a while, you may be able to get a handle on what 5 is on the OTO, I have not. I don't bother with it anymore. But for quick checks to see if chlorine is present, it's great to use, and much more reliable than strips. I wouldn't use the strips.
Anyway, like I said, I don't test everyday anymore. In fact this spring, with the cold weather and the water temps so cold, my FC usage was around .5 a day and I was testing once a week, if that.
You'll get to that point, where you feel confident that you have a handle on things and not have to test nightly. As long as you are doing things right, you're pool is not going to turn green overnight if you miss one test.
No worries!
The main value of the OTO test is simply to check that there is still some chlorine in the pool. You can't necessarily tell exactly how much, but you can tell if it has gone to zero for some reason. Once you are in the routine, that is all you really need every day. Then, once a week, you can do the FAS-DPD test to get an exact measurement and see if you need to change the amount of chlorine you are adding each day.
I suppose that test strips can be used for the same role that the OTO test would be used for. They won't be quite as reliable at making the chlorine/no chlorine distinction, but should be OK.
I suppose that test strips can be used for the same role that the OTO test would be used for. They won't be quite as reliable at making the chlorine/no chlorine distinction, but should be OK.
frustratedpoolmom said:I'll be honest. I don't test every day.
aha!