Old Raypak just wont quit - but then quits. Kinda... SOLVED!!!

[Spatacuulous]

Unit is a Raypak RP2100 Mfg date 6/1998- Propane unit. Dormant and uncovered for 10 years. No propane tanks on site but they were there once.
Unit powers on! Eureka!! - "SNS" code among others. She's coming alive again.
Step 1: Clear leaf debris/chipmunk nests/birds nest/sticks etc.
Step 2: Replaced Temp sensor (Amazon) Raypak 009577F - CLEARS "SNS" Code - Unit showing correct temperature of pool 68 deg
Step 3: Install (2) 100 Gallon Propane tanks (Professional install - used existing line) New regulators - 1 at tank and 1 at heater.
Unit is charged with propane - pilot sparking heard but will not ignite (ILO code) - I rattle the board and it fires right up! - Does a heavy flame rollout though. (Still have my eyebrows BONUS)
Step 4: Open board and find mouse nest I missed on it - they have chewed wires and loosened solder in one area

Step 5: Ordered replacement board off Ebay (Raypak P/N 601769) $140
Board arrives 1 week later.
Board works! No more codes - Unit fires up but flame is very orange/heavy (Dirt debris in the burners is my best guess hence the orange flame)

Step 6: Remove burner thanks to this youtube video help:

Burners were filthy! Spider webs, clogged, dust, dirt. Removed, wire brushed, vacuumed, Compressed air - Reconstructed and reinstalled - There was also a lot of water in the Gas valve itself which I blew out/vacuumed out at the same time. After reinstall -
SUCCESS!!!!! Works great - effecient blue flame, strong! - Takes pool from 69deg-84deg in 10 hours.

Then it stopped working again- Unit still fires - shows it's lit (flame icon) - pilot is lit
No Error Codes
Pilot is lit but flame is very weak - almost strobing from flames flickering because not all burners are lit
I removed the burner unit again to check all valves etc. Seem fine to me - looks fine. No glaring blockages
The only thing left to replace is the gas valve (Robertshaw-Grayson 7000 BDER-LP-67C)
I ordered one online (Exact replacement was $179 Hayward CHXVAL1934 IID Gas Valve LP 150-250 | eBay) and I will replace and repost here to see if it fixes problem.
What else could be wrong??
If anyone can shed some light on this issue and perhaps give me some guidance it would be very appreciated! Any way to measure gas pressure coming in off tanks? Correct PSI at the regulators? I'm all ears. Thank you!

 

[1poolman1]

Unit is a Raypak RP2100 Mfg date 6/1998- Propane unit. Dormant and uncovered for 10 years. No propane tanks on site but they were there once.
Unit powers on! Eureka!! - "SNS" code among others. She's coming alive again.
Step 1: Clear leaf debris/chipmunk nests/birds nest/sticks etc.
Step 2: Replaced Temp sensor (Amazon) Raypak 009577F - CLEARS "SNS" Code - Unit showing correct temperature of pool 68 deg
Step 3: Install (2) 100 Gallon Propane tanks (Professional install - used existing line) New regulators - 1 at tank and 1 at heater.
Unit is charged with propane - pilot sparking heard but will not ignite (ILO code) - I rattle the board and it fires right up! - Does a heavy flame rollout though. (Still have my eyebrows BONUS)
Step 4: Open board and find mouse nest I missed on it - they have chewed wires and loosened solder in one area
View attachment 507914
Step 5: Ordered replacement board off Ebay (Raypak P/N 601769) $140
Board arrives 1 week later.
Board works! No more codes - Unit fires up but flame is very orange/heavy (Dirt debris in the burners is my best guess hence the orange flame)
View attachment 507915
Step 6: Remove burner thanks to this youtube video help:

Burners were filthy! Spider webs, clogged, dust, dirt. Removed, wire brushed, vacuumed, Compressed air - Reconstructed and reinstalled - There was also a lot of water in the Gas valve itself which I blew out/vacuumed out at the same time. After reinstall -
SUCCESS!!!!! Works great - effecient blue flame, strong! - Takes pool from 69deg-84deg in 10 hours.

Then it stopped working again- Unit still fires - shows it's lit (flame icon) - pilot is lit
No Error Codes
Pilot is lit but flame is very weak - almost strobing from flames flickering because not all burners are lit
I removed the burner unit again to check all valves etc. Seem fine to me - looks fine. No glaring blockages
The only thing left to replace is the gas valve (Robertshaw-Grayson 7000 BDER-LP-67C)
I ordered one online (Exact replacement was $179 Hayward CHXVAL1934 IID Gas Valve LP 150-250 | eBay) and I will replace and repost here to see if it fixes problem.
What else could be wrong??
If anyone can shed some light on this issue and perhaps give me some guidance it would be very appreciated! Any way to measure gas pressure coming in off tanks? Correct PSI at the regulators? I'm all ears. Thank you!

You may have to remove each burner orifice from the manifold and clear spider nests from them. Requires the burner try to be disassembled.
Using compressed can just push the nest back into the manifold tube where it will again block an orifice. Spider web/nests don't burn.

 

[Spatacuulous]

You may have to remove each burner orifice from the manifold and clear spider nests from them. Requires the burner try to be disassembled.
Using compressed can just push the nest back into the manifold tube where it will again block an orifice. Spider web/nests don't burn.

Thats precisely what I did. Each burner was removed, inspected, cleaned and even ran it through with rifle barrel bore cleaner. They are clean 100%. The compressed air was only used to move debris out and into the waiting arms of the shop vac tube.

 

[1poolman1]

Thats precisely what I did. Each burner was removed, inspected, cleaned and even ran it through with rifle barrel bore cleaner. They are clean 100%. The compressed air was only used to move debris out and into the waiting arms of the shop vac tube.

Burner or orifice?

 

[Spatacuulous]

Burner or orifice?

Whatever these are called - I removed every one of these and cleaned and replaced. It worked fine for 2 weeks and then *PoOf* Stopped working - now low flickering flame. Propane just got filled and they are full so it's not that. Going to replace the valve. So much water was in that valve initially I'm hoping maybe it gummed up the works after it started again after being dormant for 10 year+

 

[1poolman1]

View attachment 508011
Whatever these are called - I removed every one of these and cleaned and replaced. It worked fine for 2 weeks and then *PoOf* Stopped working - now low flickering flame. Propane just got filled and they are full so it's not that. Going to replace the valve. So much water was in that valve initially I'm hoping maybe it gummed up the works after it started again after being dormant for 10 year+

Those are the burners, the orifices are the brass nozzles threaded into the manifold that "spray" fuel into the burners. Spiders love them. Yours should be black to indicate propane.

 

[Spatacuulous]

Those are the burners, the orifices are the brass nozzles threaded into the manifold that "spray" fuel into the burners. Spiders love them. Yours should be black to indicate propane.

I took them off too. They are all clear but they are not black. They are brass. The old couple that had this house for years used this with propane. I think it’s impossible that they are the wrong ones PLUS I had it running good! I’m going to swap the gas valve and report back. I will also pull the orifices and take photos. See if I can pull numbers off them but they are 100% clear.

 

[Spatacuulous]

I’m really at a loss here. I replaced the gas valve with a new valve, pilot assembly replaced with new and even swapped the pcb board to make sure it hadn’t gone bad. I followed the troubleshooting instructions in the manual. I have 24v at the mv and pv terminals. The unit fires up the pilot, the spark stops once pilot is lit and the PCB has no errors and shows the unit as running. What typically happens is there is the SPK which lights pilot, then CFH, sparking stops, pilot goes out but metal fork stays red hot and then a little ‘poof’ like a miniature flame out and when I look in there - the flames are very small and dancing all over the burners. They stay on but act completely fuel starved. Seems like a no gas/low gas situation. The propane tanks are full and they are brand new along with the two regulators they installed. The heater was working fine a week ago then the propane delivery guy filled the tanks and that was all she wrote. Last week I could hear the gas pushing at the cylinders (hissing) as it was consumed and cooking at the raypak itself. Now It’s acting like there’s a squirrel in the gas line. Like it’s clogged. My only move here is to call a professional but I don’t know whether to call the pool repair spot or the gas company. Or do I buy a manometer and try and measure myself? I’m super bummed out and kind of at the end of my rope here.

 

[ferretbone]

Your gas valve isn't opening correctly. Or , your gas regulator to the heater is bad. I use my manometer on a heater that worked on again off again for months and all seemed well while I tested the gas after the valve in the heater, and before. I don't know what to tell you because I had a plumber replace the gas regulator that worked fine most of the time but was a problem. Every time I tested for gas I was fine. The same happened with a gas valve in one heater. So try a manometer on a heater on your heater gas valve on the outlet side, if it's around 7 or so psi, stop and call a plumber. That's the best I got for you over the phone.

 

[1poolman1]

I’m really at a loss here. I replaced the gas valve with a new valve, pilot assembly replaced with new and even swapped the pcb board to make sure it hadn’t gone bad. I followed the troubleshooting instructions in the manual. I have 24v at the mv and pv terminals. The unit fires up the pilot, the spark stops once pilot is lit and the PCB has no errors and shows the unit as running. What typically happens is there is the SPK which lights pilot, then CFH, sparking stops, pilot goes out but metal fork stays red hot and then a little ‘poof’ like a miniature flame out and when I look in there - the flames are very small and dancing all over the burners. They stay on but act completely fuel starved. Seems like a no gas/low gas situation. The propane tanks are full and they are brand new along with the two regulators they installed. The heater was working fine a week ago then the propane delivery guy filled the tanks and that was all she wrote. Last week I could hear the gas pushing at the cylinders (hissing) as it was consumed and cooking at the raypak itself. Now It’s acting like there’s a squirrel in the gas line. Like it’s clogged. My only move here is to call a professional but I don’t know whether to call the pool repair spot or the gas company. Or do I buy a manometer and try and measure myself? I’m super bummed out and kind of at the end of my rope here.

View attachment 509006View attachment 509007View attachment 509008View attachment 509009

Orifice is black, just old. Brass under the coating. Board should read CFH then SPK. If it is happening as you describe there is a problem with the board.

 

[Spatacuulous]

UPDATE: SOLVED - SOLVED - I purchased a Monometer off amazon and found the propane pressure to be 12.5" of water table to the second stage regulator. When the heater "fired" it dropped to 0.05" - Should not drop more than 2" apparently. Called the propane company out and guess what - the propane delivery guy overfilled the tanks which flooded the first stage regulator with liquid rendering it useless. The regulator AND the full tanks have to be removed and replaced now.

That was the issue the whole time! Again this proves my theory gained from working on cars - if it works fine and then you do something to it - ANYTHING - and then it doesn't work fine? Look at the thing you did. Propane tanks were filled in the early AM when it was cool out - filled to the brim - heat of the day expanded the propane and that was all she wrote.

Well at least I have shiny new gas valve, pilot assembly and PCB board just in case there is an issue in the future!!

 

[Ahultin]

Propane tanks were filled in the early AM when it was cool out - filled to the brim - heat of the day expanded the propane and that was all she wrote.

That is crazy as here at least, the propane companies cannot/will not fill a tank beyond 80% for just that reason. Sounds like you got lucky as I'm told an overfilled propane tank and heat expansion is a small bomb waiting to go off.

 

[Spatacuulous]

That is crazy as here at least, the propane companies cannot/will not fill a tank beyond 80% for just that reason. Sounds like you got lucky as I'm told an overfilled propane tank and heat expansion is a small bomb waiting to go off.

As he used the crane on the truck to pick the overfilled tanks up they were gassing off like crazy. The movement of the tanks swinging back and forth caused them to expand further triggering the safety valves that purge at those PSI levels! Heater working fine now.