NOTICE - ALL INTELLICENTER USERS

@MyAZPool
Plenty of minor issues but I don't want to drown out the only one I really care about and the biggest broken promise / false advertising / confidence killer...

RS485 Control of Intellivalves

If I had 10 votes I would use them all on this issue. Come on now Pentair, no more excuses just get it done... yesterday. :mad:
@mcqwerty
If I had 10 votes, I would certainly add them to yours. That issue is numero uno on my list as well.
It will be at the top of the list for sure.
Thanks much!!!
r.
 
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The fact that Pentair included IntelliValves with the IntelliCenter bundles and the valve is still not Intelli should be an embarrassment to Pentiar. Every time every customer looks at those dumb valves is a diminishment to Pentairs brand.

And you have permission to quote me on that.
 
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Tell them to keep manufacturing the EasyTouch control panel ... old school as it is, in all my years of using my ET-8 with my RF Easytouch remote, it has NEVER failed (except when I needed to replace the 4 AA batteries in the remote). Reading the threads about the IntelliCenter just makes me :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

(Of course I'm trolling you ... but I wanted to watch this thread and just pushing the "Watch" button is not as satisfying as getting to zing you :giggle: )
 
Just signed up and found this post. I have an Intellicenter that was installed in August. I live in ND and have it on my pool in AZ. I would say app downtime for me is higher than 50%. Have had warranty out. They replaced the antenna and said it was probably just server issues. Had family go down so I turned the heat on for them. Couldn't shut it off for two weeks after they left because the app wouldn't connect. Finally got it off. Now for the last few days I get the "JSON could not be serialized because of error". I bought the system so I could check in on my pool from home. It has been a complete waste. Rarely works and they have no fix for me. Thanks for talking with them!
 
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The fact that Pentair included IntelliValves with the IntelliCenter bundles and the valve is still not Intelli should be an embarrassment to Pentiar. Every time every customer looks at those dumb valves is a diminishment to Pentairs brand.

And you have permission to quote me on that.
@ajw22
Noted and great point.
I agree and will do.
Thanks!
r.
 
Just signed up and found this post. I have an Intellicenter that was installed in August. I live in ND and have it on my pool in AZ. I would say app downtime for me is higher than 50%. Have had warranty out. They replaced the antenna and said it was probably just server issues. Had family go down so I turned the heat on for them. Couldn't shut it off for two weeks after they left because the app wouldn't connect. Finally got it off. Now for the last few days I get the "JSON could not be serialized because of error". I bought the system so I could check in on my pool from home. It has been a complete waste. Rarely works and they have no fix for me. Thanks for talking with them!
@jbutz02
On a positive note. Welcome. I hope that you find TFP useful.
Your comments are indicative of the hundreds that I have seen. Connectivity issues either through the web-client, mobile app, Amazon Alexa or various WiFi issues are right there at the top of the list and will certainly be discussed.
Over the last two years, I have attempted to stress to Pentair on many occasions just how bad the web-client and the two mobile apps are. However, there has been little if any improvement.
I have heard every excuse that they can come up with.

Frankly, in my opinion - there are two possibilities.
They are either unwilling to address these problems or they are unable to address these problems. Inability could stem from budgetary constraints, poor corporate modeling or organizational incompetence. Who knows.

In either case, last year I gave up on them since I found an alternative method of communicating with and controlling my IntelliCenter via the nodejs-poolController-dashPanel and which is a phenomenal improvement. However, this course of action by myself and other IntelliCenter and *Touch users are probably not reasonable alternatives for the masses or the "typical" users.

So when the Product Manager reached out to me, I opted to try again and see if something productive can be realized. We'll see.

Thanks very much for your comments. I will certainly use them in an attempt to make some progress. I will report back with any news or updates that I receive.
r.
 
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@jbutz02
On a positive note. Welcome. I hope that you find TFP useful.
Your comments are indicative of the hundreds that I have seen. Connectivity issues either through the web-client, mobile app, Amazon Alexa or various WiFi issues are right there at the top of the list and will certainly be discussed.
Over the last two years, I have attempted to stress to Pentair on many occasions just how bad the web-client and the two mobile apps are. However, there has been little if any improvement.
I have heard every excuse that they can come up with.

Frankly, in my opinion - there are two possibilities.
They are either unwilling to address these problems or they are unable to address these problems. Inability could stem from budgetary constraints, poor corporate modeling or organizational incompetence. Who knows.

In either case, last year I gave up on them since I found an alternative method of communicating with and controlling my IntelliCenter via the nodejs-poolController-dashPanel and which is a phenomenal improvement. However, this course of action by myself and other IntelliCenter and *Touch users are probably not reasonable alternatives for the masses or the "typical" users.

So when the Product Manager reached out to me, I opted to try again and see if something productive can be realized. We'll see.

Thanks very much for your comments. I will certainly use them in an attempt to make some progress. I will report back with any news or updates that I receive.
r.
Thanks so much! I wish I would have found this forum sooner.
 
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I know this is probably a little bit of mud in the waters regarding connectivity but there is something you must know about the wifi connection to the pad. First, most often the location of the pad puts most pads at the outer limits of the wifi range. If that adapter loses connection for an unknown period of time the connection remains lost for a while. It doesn't just instantly reconnect.

Then there is the other thing that happens. It is not uncommon to have the pad on the other side of a garage. What do you think happens when a car suddenly parks its metal frame in between the access point and the wifi bridge on the pad. Mr. Faraday comes a calling and whammo your connection is broken. Sadly, when I had that bridge hooked up, I realized it doesn't recover well after a connection is lost so simply evicting the offending vehicle from the garage didn't fix the problem right away either.

The moral of the story here is that if you are using that wifi bridge, know that the better place for it is tucked away in the garage somewhere collecting dust. If you can run a hardwire connection do it. If you have stucco walls then that bridge is likely out at the pad wearing a tin foil hat surrounded by chicken wire. Gilligan has a better chance of communicating with it through his teeth.
 
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ALCON
Thanks again for everyone’s input here.
I spoke with the product manager today for about an hour and a half and I felt that it was a pretty productive conversation.

He had a lot to report on and I in turn shared everyone’s concerns. I anonymously shared verbatim several of the posts from above, which I believe helped him to better put a finger on the pulse of what the average IntelliCenter users are experiencing in the field.

I took notes the best I could and so as promised I would like to share the take-aways. These are not necessarily in order of any priority.

Prod Servers (intellicenter.com). (slow, unresponsive and inadequate “uptime.”)
The current servers are an “old-school” cloud infrastructure. They (Pentair) are currently planning and testing a “more scalable architecture” that will allow them to arrive at an uptime of “3 9’s.” When IntelliCenter initially came online, they had not planned for the huge user migration that occurred. They very much realize that this is a significant issue with a majority of the users. They are currently working on just keeping the servers up while they perform robust testing on the newer cloud server architecture so they can migrate users systematically. They are afraid that if they don’t take this cautious approach that it could end up causing all the IntelliCenter (as well as other automation mobile apps) users to be without connectivity to their panels.
The new architecture will allow for -
1. Improved server provisioning (scalling).​
2. Improved load balancing.​
3. Higher availability.​
Migration timeline is currently set at 3-6 months.

Alexa Skill
Much of the initial issues were because the skills were not developed in accordance with “Amazon Best Practices.”
They have made some improvements (short term fixes) and some commands do work better now. They believe that it is more stable now however they are continuing to work on it in order to make more advancements.

Their overall plan is to develop and consolidate one skill that consolidates the IntelliCenter and the *Touch automation system skills.

Apple Watch
Initial stumbling blocks were due to the intermediate “back-end” issues that were expressed by the Apple development team although he claims that it is working intermittently now. Timeline for overall completion of this feature is Q2 2022.

Next Firmware Release
A new firmware release is currently in internal testing and will be released in beta very shortly. I have agreed to upload the beta when it is available for testing and if no problems, the publicly released version should be available in the April to mid-May time frame. There are several “bug” fixes that will be incorporated as well as some of the issues outlined below.

Schedule issues in the web-client. These include the issue that some schedules do not expand to allow for editing or indicate “Special Circ#” instead of the actual Feature Circuit or Circuit Group.)
Remains on their radar and they hope that these will be addressed in the next firmware release.

Sunset/Sunrise Offset Issue
Possibly addressed in the next firmware release.

Lighting hold/recall issue
Fixed in next firmware release.

Inability to sort circuits and schedules
Fixed in next firmware release.

Google Home
The development has been paused. This is to allow for one set of voice skills (Alexa first.) They believe that this will then allow them to better leverage those voice skills to other platforms such Google Home and Siri. Timeline for completion is scheduled for Q4, 2022.

Midnight transition for schedules
Hopefully the fix is included in the next firmware release.

Inclusion of the IntelliValve on the RS-485 bus
Still very much on their radar. Their priority is to fix any base functionality issues first and to address improvements to the backend architecture (see prod server above) first before moving on to this issue which appears to be much more of a challenge for them in their prioritization.

“over-the-air” (OTA) updates
Will be addressed in the next firmware update. In the next update, users will still have to manually download the update from Pentair.com. After that, the OTA capability should be in effect.

Wi-Fi issues
A new “High Power Wireless Link Kit,” has replaced the EnGenius WiFi Link Kit (Primary Client Bridge) (P/N 522475Z). These new link kits began shipping with newer IntelliCenter bundled kits, January 30, 2021.
The new kits have two (2) transceivers. One transceiver connects to the user’s router and the other connects to the IntelliCenter. The following is reported.

1. Connection range is significantly better.​
2. Establishes a proprietary secure bridge between the two transceivers which automatically negotiates the connection.​
3. Allows for auto configuration and formatting (plug and play).​

Note: For any users that are experiencing Wi-Fi issues and if your unit is under warranty, contact Pentair Tech Support for assistance. The older wireless kits are “field replaceable” with the newer kits.


The Product manager explained current prioritization.

Existing issues:
1. OCP (Outdoor Control Panel)​
2. Apps​
3. web-client​

New Development:
1. IntelliValve (RS-485 capability)​
2. Ability to control multiple bodies of water beyond two (2)​

Note: Trouble tickets on iOS issues are being worked more expeditiously than the web-client issues. Not for any reason other than it appears that one team is more expeditious.

That is about all I got for now. Some of the above may be very good news for some users and maybe not so good for others (depending on your priorities, etc.) I guess time will tell how it all plays out.
r.

EDIT. If you expressed an issue above but don't see it addressed here. For those issues, they were noted by the Product Manager and hopefully follow-up on those issues will occur in the future. Thanks...
 
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Thanks, Ron. Appreciate the update, and all the time and effort you continue to invest in this, for the benefit of everyone here.

I am going to slowly begin the transition to the alternate method, but I've got so much going on now so this is a low priority project.

--Jeff
 
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@MyAZPool - as ever, thank you for all your hard work on ALL of this IC-based stuff.

Regarding RS485 control of Intellivalves here is my read on that... When a product manager is, in Q1 2021 already talking about things 'planned' for Q4 2022 and the thing you care about (Intellivalves) is listed as "on the radar", then there are a few things you can be sure of:

1) The thing planned for Q4 2022 will likely be Q3 2023 at the earliest.
2) Your feature (intellivalves) has ZERO chance of getting done before 2023 and you are lucky if it gets done at all since by the time 2023 rolls round there have been 100 other "more important" things planned before it.

My current estimate is a 2025 release and I consider that optimistic.
I also know that there are ZERO problems in software that cannot be fixed by spending money. If Pentair cared they could open their enormous wallet and just spend their way out of this and all of their issues in 9 months.

😡
 
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@MyAZPool - as ever, thank you for all your hard work on ALL of this IC-based stuff.

Regarding RS485 control of Intellivalves here is my read on that... When a product manager is, in Q1 2021 already talking about things 'planned' for Q4 2022 and the thing you care about (Intellivalves) is listed as "on the radar", then there are a few things you can be sure of:

1) The thing planned for Q4 2022 will likely be Q3 2023 at the earliest.
2) Your feature (intellivalves) has ZERO chance of getting done before 2023 and you are lucky if it gets done at all since by the time 2023 rolls round there have been 100 other "more important" things planned before it.

My current estimate is a 2025 release and I consider that optimistic.
I also know that there are ZERO problems in software that cannot be fixed by spending money. If Pentair cared they could open their enormous wallet and just spend their way out of this and all of their issues in 9 months.

😡
@mcqwerty
Thanks... I know you are right unfortunately.
Makes me steaming mad as well.
So well said, may I copy/paste your comments verbatim and include in an email to the product manager?
Thanks much!!
r.
EDIT. Also, I am going to suggest that if he doesn't have the horsepower to make this happen in a timely manner, maybe he could try running it up the organizational flagpole to someone who does have the horsepower.
Thoughts???

Curious as to where they are at with the RS-485/Intellivalve on the Technology Readiness Level (TLS) scale? Maybe I'll ask...
 
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Or just cough up the protocol commands. I know a few horses with power.
@rstrouse
I agree. I think I know of those same horses with power that have the ability to make very good use of those protocol commands. :thumleft:.

Remember, I brought that topic up with them back in the fall summer of last year. I got the standard "party-line" answer of something like "well, maybe we will look at that and see if that is "feasible". I kind of wanted to jump through the phone and scream "OF COURSE ITS FEASIBLE. THE GUY DOWN THE HALL HAS THEM ON HIS COMPUTER. JUST COUGH EM UP AND LET US BE ON OUR WAY." ;)..... They are so proprietary, it makes me ill.

I think I'm going to resurrect the request. I'm pretty sure it will be a waste of my time. But now that njspc/dp/REM is fully set up and going strong, I have much more time to waste. :p

Thanks...
r.
 
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