Not maintaining chlorine

8ightiesfan

Well-known member
May 26, 2020
69
Canberra, Australia
I'm struggling to maintain chlorine in our pool. I've been checking levels, frequent vacuuming and brushing, the pool is very clean and clear but even with the SWG set to 100% and the cover left on chlorine is not being maintained. I checked chlorine two days ago at 4ppm, cover left on, SWG set to max, chlorine today is 1.5 and I've had to manually add chlorine. I've been adding CYA over the last month or so as it was very low and it is currently at 50ppm, a bit low still but wouldn't think 50ppm would cause this issue?

I'm thinking it may be the SWG cell, which is dated 2018. I haven't cleaned the cell in almost two years as it hasn't got much calcium on the cell, not enough for me to consider cleaning it. I have attached some photos of the cell. Should I clean it? Is there a way to test a cell? It is cloudy around the cell when it's on and producing bubbles in the returns so it appears ok visually.

Levels are
FC 1.5
CC 0
pH 7.6
TA 70
CH 375
CYA 50
Salt 4600
CSI -0.20
Temp 30C

Thanks!
 

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Hey 80s !!!

The cell could use some cleaning. Use a popsicle stick or zip tie to knock off anything you can get to. Vinegar will probably take care of the rest. It will fizz like a kids science experiment. Stop and rinse well once the fizzing stops.

So that may or may not help.

You got 2 things going on. First, your season is ramping up right now, and so is your daily UV loss. With a lower CYA you aren't buffering the FC enough and are likely losing it as fast as its produced.

Then because of that, you've danced or gone below minimum.

Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to remove the UV loss from the equation. If you lose FC overnight, something organic is the cause and you need to SLAM Process. Anytime you ever suspect something FC / algae related, run an OCLT. They are free and will alert you to any issues that you can nip in the bud while the water is still clear.

Once you've proven you don't need to SLAM, or after you do SLAM, get the CYA back into range for a salt pool. If you raise the CYA now, your SLAM target will be higher so its best to wait.

Then you may still need a new cell. 4 years is fair for most places.
 
Vinegar is a much weaker acid and will remove less precious cell coating in the process. You are close to the end if it isn't the end. Try Vinegar first and a Muriatic Acid bath as a last resort. (y)
 
Lifted from pool school :


How to Clean a SWG Cell

You should only clean a SWG cell if it has visible scale on the plates. Try and clean with the process that will do the least damage to the rare metal plates and then move to more aggressive methods if necessary.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Water​

First try and use strong blasts of water to remove the scale. One mehmber found success using a WaterPik.

Cleaning a SWG cell by Scraping Plates​

You can scrape the plates with a stick, like a Popsicle stick, to remove the scale.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Vingear Acetic Acid​

If the scale is stubborn then use cleaning vinegar (6% acetic acid … available in Home Depot). It’s milder than Muriatic Acid and won’t damage the ruthenium surface. Highly concentrated mineral acids are not good for the transition metal catalysts.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Citric Acid​

On a molar basis citric acid will be “stronger” than either acetic acid or ascorbic acid. So it will produce a solution with lower pH due to more acid protons (H+) being released. This is why your perception is that it works better on scale than vinegar does.[5]

All acids will remove a small amount of material from the ruthenium surface because ruthenium oxide is not stable in acidic conditions. Ruthenium metal itself is highly reactive to air forming ruthenium oxide. In water, a pure ruthenium metal surface will slowly oxidize based on the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water as well as oxidation formed by hydrolysis. So, if you leave a chunk of ruthenium in highly acidic water for a long period of time, it will dissolve.

The key to cleaning calcium scale off the plates is to use an acid that is strong enough to destabilize the carbonate anion (force carbonate to become CO2) and remove the calcium without the acid also etching the ruthenium metal. The conjugate base of the acid matters as well. Chlorides and sulfates do increase the likelihood of reforming ruthenium oxides quickly enough at the ruthenium metal surface such that hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid would be poor choices. Ascorbate ions from ascorbic acid tend to be anti-oxidants and will less likely increase the repassivation of the metal surface. Acetic acid creates acetate ions which also weakly interact with ruthenium. As far as citrate goes (the conjugate base of citric acid), I'm not entirely certain as I would have to search the literature for it. My guess is it will be more aggressive towards ruthenium than either ascorbic acid or acetic acid but much less aggressive than muriatic acid. Citrate tends to act as a chelating agents to many transitions metals like iron and cobalt so I would expect ruthenium to complex pretty readily with citrate given the many different stable oxidation states that a ruthenium atom can attain. Ascorbates and acetates are weaker chelating agents.

If you don't happen to have vinegar lying around, and the big bag of citric acid is just sitting there screaming to be used, then you can probably use it without much harm. There's really no need to make highly concentrated solutions. A few % in distilled water will very effectively soften or remove calcium scale. Then just hit it with a garden hose spray to flush it out.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Muriatic Acid​

Cleaning a SWG cell with Muriatic Acid 10:1 diluted solution will remove some of the rare earth coating from the plates and reduce the life of the cell with every cleaning.
 
How long are you running your SWG per day? Sounds like your cell produces 25g/h, in your 75kl pool that results in 4ppm of FC in 12 hours.

Here in Melbourne, I currently need about 2-2.5ppm per day. Often less, quite cloudy. And with your cover on most of the time, you should be more on the lower end, and even with lower CYA you should be OK in this situation.

Algae is the most likely option, OCLT is the right first step there, as Newdude suggested.

Just had a look into your PoolMath, looks like your chlorine started to drop once you turned on the heater (I assume that's how you got your Pool to 32°C in Canberra?). That could also hint towards chlorine oxidizing something, which is quite temperature depending. How old is your cover? If it's already old and rough, it might be more susceptible to chlorine attack. It might be worth doing OCLTs with and without cover on.

Is the SWG producing the usual amount of bubbles inside the cell?
 
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How long are you running your SWG per day? Sounds like your cell produces 25g/h, in your 75kl pool that results in 4ppm of FC in 12 hours.

Here in Melbourne, I currently need about 2-2.5ppm per day. Often less, quite cloudy. And with your cover on most of the time, you should be more on the lower end, and even with lower CYA you should be OK in this situation.

Algae is the most likely option, OCLT is the right first step there, as Newdude suggested.

Just had a look into your PoolMath, looks like your chlorine started to drop once you turned on the heater (I assume that's how you got your Pool to 32°C in Canberra?). That could also hint towards chlorine oxidizing something, which is quite temperature depending. How old is your cover? If it's already old and rough, it might be more susceptible to chlorine attack. It might be worth doing OCLTs with and without cover on.

Is the SWG producing the usual amount of bubbles inside the cell?

Hi mgtfp,

SWG is running for 9 hours a day, during 8am-12pm + 1pm-6pm. This hasn't been a problem over winter no, just since the season has started and the warmer weather and pool use is consuming more chlorine and the SWG doesn't seem to be keeping up. The solar cover age is unknown but at least 3 years old but still in good condition. I haven't looked in the cell for bubbles particularly but it has cloudiness coming off the cell and the bubbles in the returns seem to be the normal amount.

I will perform an OCLT tonight and see how that goes as the first step.
 
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Hi mgtfp,

SWG is running for 9 hours a day, during 8am-12pm + 1pm-6pm. This hasn't been a problem over winter no, just since the season has started and the warmer weather and pool use is consuming more chlorine and the SWG doesn't seem to be keeping up. The solar cover age is unknown but at least 3 years old but still in good condition. I haven't looked in the cell for bubbles particularly but it has cloudiness coming off the cell and the bubbles in the returns seem to be the normal amount.

I will perform an OCLT tonight and see how that goes as the first step.

So, you run 9 hours all through the year? And what was the SWG percentage in the past over winter and summer?
 

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Update

Performed OCLT and passed. 4.5ppm at 10pm and still 4.5ppm at 5:30 the next morning.

I have removed and cleaned the SWG cell carefully using a plastic clothes peg and have reinstalled.

I also removed the filter for the rooftop solar heating and found a lot of gunk in it and the filter was also very green. I hosed off and soaked in strong chlorine for 5 minutes. perhaps this is the cause?

Another idea I had, the sand in the sand filter, age is unknown. We have been here almost 3 years now and have never changed the sand in the filter as it seems to be filtering well, last season though I gave the filter a deep clean using a method from this forum. Could this possibly be contributing?

I will continue to monitor.
 
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perhaps this is the cause?
It likely wanst all of the problem but it certainly wasn't helping either.

last season though I gave the filter a deep clean using a method from this forum. Could this possibly be contributing
Once a year deep cleaning of any filter style is reccomended. Sand is millions of years old and doesn't go bad at this point in its life. If it's gunked up with pervious potions, you'll know because it won't be sand like anymore when you get in the filter to clean it. If it cleans up, it's good for another million years.

Keep us posted on how the cell performs. :)
 
Update since previous maintenance including cleaning cell and cleaning solar heating filter:

I have tested chlorine most days and with the chlorinator set to 100% for 9hrs a day it is maintaining at 3ppm, but it is not increasing. This appears to be an improvement, before chlorine was dropping down to 1.5 and I had to manually dose. The solar cover has stayed on over the last few days and the pool has not been used since last weekend. The water temp has dropped though from the weather this week going down to 26 degrees from 32 but has climbed back to 29 degrees yesterday. The pool is staying very clear with no sign of algae growth at this chlorine level but I understand I am on the edge of the low scale. I decided yesterday to add 1kg of stabilizer to get my CYA to 60 or above, this will rule out the issue being CYA too low. I will wait five days and test CYA again.

So in summary cleaning the cell and cleaning the solar heating filter definitely have helped, however I would have thought the chlorinator being at 100% would be capable of lifting the chlorine level especially with the cover being on so I am still suspicious of its output. Am I expecting too much from it?

Next step is possibly a deep clean of the sand filter and I will keep monitoring chlorine patterns.

Thanks for everyone's help so far!
 
So. First things first. Mess around with production rates while you are free and clear above minimum. Say, 7-8 FC. That way, when you underproduce, it's a cell issue and not a cell issue *and* a swamp.

Our summer was 8 (?) degrees above normal this year, no clouds/rain and I needed the highest production I'd seen in 9 years. It could be as simple as just needing longer runtime. Usually, cells work until they die. Yours definitely seems to work.
however I would have thought the chlorinator being at 100% would be capable of lifting the chlorine level especially with the cover being on so I am still suspicious of its output. Am I expecting too much from it?
It makes 3ppm in 9 hours. That's totally fair daily loss for you right now. Pools average 2 to 4 ppm daily loss when everything is balanced properly.
I will wait five days and test CYA again
Always remember how easy it is to overshoot, and how sucky it is to fix that mistake. Patience and creeping up to the target is critical.

Also remember to raise the FC to match the new CYA. You can count it as soon as its dissolving in the pool. It won't hurt a thing if it hasn't all mixed yet. The important part is to always have enough, or a little extra FC.
 
Update:

CYA is now in range at 80, everything is checked and balanced, cleaned, no algae etc, pool is as clear as ever, but still not maintaining chlorine. With CYA at 80 it dropped 4.5ppm over 4 days with zero pool use and cover kept on 100%. Chlorine dropped a further 4ppm over the next 5 days with daily use and cover off mostly. Now having to manually dose again today.

The only task not completed is a deep clean of the sand filter, but I can't see this being a major contributor to this issue.

Question, how is chlorine output in ppm calculated? I know my chlorinator makes 20g per hour (0.04lbs per hour) or 480g/24hr (1.05lb/24hr) How do I convert this to a ppm/hour?

Do I just need to accept that this is normal in peak season and that the chlorinator just can't produce more than is being consumed each day?
 
ppm (parts per million) means in this case mg of Cl2 per l of water. You have to see the litre as 1kg of water, and then you have the unit mg/kg = (0.001g)/(1000g) = 0.000001 = 1ppm

In your case (20000mg/h)/75000l = 0.267 ppm/h

Or just use PoolMath's Effects of Adding.

How long and on what percentage are your running your SWG?
 
ppm (parts per million) means in this case mg of Cl2 per l of water. You have to see the litre as 1kg of water, and then you have the unit mg/kg = (0.001g)/(1000g) = 0.000001 = 1ppm

In your case (20000mg/h)/75000l = 0.267 ppm/h

Or just use PoolMath's Effects of Adding.

How long and on what percentage are your running your SWG?

Thanks, I'm running the SWG for 9 hours at 100% currently
 

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