NooB Just getting started (Houston, TX)

[Taddpool]

We just signed the paperwork for a build. We are just north of Houston Texas. We are in the process of picking all the items out. We started with salt as the direction we wanted to go in, however, we were talked out of it due to the jump rocks we are getting installed.

As we go through and pick all the extra items we are coming across a few things that I wanted to learn more about, and found this forum. After reading here for a few hours, and several conversations, and opinions later, I figured I would bring this question up as a post, and see if you smart folks can help me out here.

We are getting an ozonator. I was wondering if we should get a UV device as well. My pool builder states that he has never recommended one in our area because it's overkill with the Ozanator and the sodium Tetra borates we are putting in there. We continued to talk and he started telling me about this new delivery system that the owner is now using with great results. I defiantly can't speak to the science behind it, but in essence, it changes the delivery system from the ozonator to the UV because the ozonator only works for about 5 seconds, and the faster it can make it into the UV the faster it will create some super killer that will help the pool.

My research shows that either the Ozonator or the UV unit will allow the user to use about 40% less chlorine throughout the year. If you get both though, you will be at 60-80% less chlorine needed.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I doing the right thing by getting both?

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! I would say no to the ozone and UV. You get plenty of oxidation needs from the TX sun. Claims to use less chlorine for water sanitation can be misleading. Have you considered a salt water generator? I'll place a link below to review while you await other replies.

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...

www.google.com

Also see ----> Pool Care Basics

 

[Newdude]

With a properly sanitized pool, you aren't battling algae. You're battling the 4ppm peak season loss from the sun in this part of the peak season. You need that much chlorine no matter what.

Maybe. Just maybe. The Ozone/UV will help you *only* need to replace the FC the sun burns off daily, but there's no two ways about needing that much. Bather load and organics are in addition to the daily burnoff, not in lieu of.

Any organics in the pool volume will be sanitized/oxidized before they ever touch the alternative sanitizers at the equipment pad. And you need to replace that FC also.

It tweaks my melons something fierce that you have UV loss, and they want to to add more UV loss, under the guise that more UV loss means you need less chlorine. More UV FC loss means more chlorine needed. Any day of the week.

 

[pjt]

We are just north of Houston Texas.

Hey neighbor, you've found the right place. Consider starting a build thread. Fill out your signature if you plan on staying.

We started with salt as the direction we wanted to go in, however, we were talked out of it due to the jump rocks we are getting installed.

You definitely want a SWCG. All chlorinated pools have salt in them, regardless of chlorination method.

We are getting an ozonator.

Don't.

Ozone Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I was wondering if we should get a UV device as well.

Also no. We have an excellent UV source in the sky that provides ample UV.

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

sodium Tetra borates

Not necessary. Borates are optional after you master the basics of pool water chemistry.

Am I doing the right thing by getting both?

Get neither and put that money into a SWCG. You'll probably have money left over. Chlorine is king, and a SWCG is by far the easiest and cheapest method for chlorinating your pool.

 

[BDY]

Spec a large variable speed pump, SWG at least 2x your pool volume, and a large filter and you are golden for low cost operating going forward and lower maintenance and vacation headaches ….

don’t let them sell you on a in line chlorinator either…

 

[jkhamr]

We just signed the paperwork for a build. We are just north of Houston Texas. We are in the process of picking all the items out. We started with salt as the direction we wanted to go in, however, we were talked out of it due to the jump rocks we are getting installed.

As we go through and pick all the extra items we are coming across a few things that I wanted to learn more about, and found this forum. After reading here for a few hours, and several conversations, and opinions later, I figured I would bring this question up as a post, and see if you smart folks can help me out here.

We are getting an ozonator. I was wondering if we should get a UV device as well. My pool builder states that he has never recommended one in our area because it's overkill with the Ozanator and the sodium Tetra borates we are putting in there. We continued to talk and he started telling me about this new delivery system that the owner is now using with great results. I defiantly can't speak to the science behind it, but in essence, it changes the delivery system from the ozonator to the UV because the ozonator only works for about 5 seconds, and the faster it can make it into the UV the faster it will create some super killer that will help the pool.

My research shows that either the Ozonator or the UV unit will allow the user to use about 40% less chlorine throughout the year. If you get both though, you will be at 60-80% less chlorine needed.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I doing the right thing by getting both?

I started my pool build several months ago, went down the same road you are, I initially decided on salt system, pool company talked me out of it, bought UV Ozonator, chlorinator, and some inline water bonding gizmo. Then I found TFP and went back to my original plan of SWG, stick to your guns, the folks here have been a great source of info, and help us new pool owners the correct way.

 

[HermanTX]

We started with salt as the direction we wanted to go in, however, we were talked out of it due to the jump rocks we are getting installed.

Go back to the salt system. I have a rock waterfall with salt system and there is no issue - not sure what the PB was trying to indicate by saying a salt system is not good with jump rocks.
The salt system creates about 3500ppm of salt in your pool. Your tears are higher than that and the ocean is 10x the pool at 35,000ppm. So don't follow their scare tactics.

We are getting an ozonator. I was wondering if we should get a UV device as well.

I can almost guarantee that if you go with UV/Ozonator and we have another summer as we are having now in TX, that you will be on the forum asking how to get rid of algae. I have neighbors that have had multiple algae issues that are using these systems. Your potential savings on "40% less chlorine" will be quickly consumed in fighting an algae outbreak.

Worst case - don't buy anything and only use liquid chlorine. Many of us have started with chlorine pucks or UV systems, then transitioned to liquid chlorine after many algae issues then invested in a SWCG to make life easier. You have an opportunity to with the best right now.

 

[BDY]

A UV system is basically inserting an artificial sun into your plumbing, and the sun degrades chlorine. UV may be beneficial for indoor pools but for outdoor pools it’s detrimental to chlorine. And you have plenty of Uv from Mother Nature every day

 

[Taddpool]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I looked all over, but is there an "IDEAL SETUP" I should get then if going salt?

 

[Newdude]

is there an "IDEAL SETUP" I should get then if going salt?

If you have automation you'll want to stick to your brand. Kinda like a TV / Blue Ray / Sound bar. If they're the same brand you only need the one remote to control them all. They work fine separately, but it defeats the purpose.

No matter which way you decide, I'd go 3x in NY for ROI. In TX with long blazing seasons I would strongly consider 4X if they made a residential unit large enough. Upgrading costs about 20% more at each stage but returns 100% more life going 20k to 40k and 50% more lifespan going 40k to 60k. So for a double upgrade from 20k to 60k, it'd net 3x the life, for 44% more cost (compounded).

 

[Taddpool]

If you have automation you'll want to stick to your brand. Kinda like a TV / Blue Ray / Sound bar. If they're the same brand you only need the one remote to control them all. They work fine separately, but it defeats the purpose.

No matter which way you decide, I'd go 3x in NY for ROI. In TX with long blazing seasons I would strongly consider 4X if they made a residential unit large enough. Upgrading costs about 20% more at each stage but returns 100% more life going 20k to 40k and 50% more lifespan going 40k to 60k. So for a double upgrade from 20k to 60k, it'd net 3x the life, for 44% more cost (compounded).

I have no idea what you just said, but it sounds wicked smart.

1. I get the "stick to your brand" part
2. 4X, I'm assuming is the size of the Chlorinator? - My pool will be apx 34,000 gallons. are you saying get the 60, not the 40?

Are there any other items I should, or shouldn't get?

Example - People said DO NOT get a UV thing...

 

[Newdude]

2. 4X, I'm assuming is the size of the Chlorinator? - My pool will be apx 34,000 gallons. are you saying get the 60, not the 40?

Cells are rated at 24/7 output. So a 20k unit would need to run 24/7 to produce enough FC for a 20k pool in the peak season. (Less, obviously in the early spring and such).

A 2x would produce the same in 12 hours 'on', living twice as long when they're both rated for the same 10k hours of production.

A 3x would need 8 hours. And so on.

Your only choice at 34k gallons is a 60k, so that leaves Pentair and Circupool.

People said DO NOT get a UV thing...

For once, listen to those off forum folks. They are correct here.

Are there any other items I should, or shouldn't get?

If you run a schedule, you need a seperate timer for the SWG so it can only run during the pump window. They have flow sensors, but those are secondary failsafes. The unit may cause an explosion if it produces (gas) without flow to send it to the pool to be dispersed.

 

[pjt]

1. I get the "stick to your brand" part

What brand of equipment does your PB use?

Are there any other items I should, or shouldn't get?

Take a look at my build thread (link in my signature) for some ideas. Here's a good list to start with:

Should:
3 HP VSP
Large cartridge filter
60k rated SWCG
Jandy Neverlube (or Pentair) diverter and check valves only
External heater bypass
Two skimmers (independently plumbed)
4' depth in shallow end
2.5" suction
Unions on all equipment
Overflow drain
Fill line (autofill or electronically controlled valve)
Light at equipment pad

"Nice to have":
Heater
Chiller
Automation
Surge protection
GFCI at equipment pad
Extra empty conduit for future growth (landscape lighting, speakers, etc.)
Robot cleaner
Toe tile

Optional:
Main drain
Suction port
Removable hand rail
Umbrella sleeves

Don't:
UV
Ozone
Mineral systems
Tab feeder
Ball valves
SVRS pump

 

[pcollins22]

What brand of equipment does your PB use?


Take a look at my build thread (link in my signature) for some ideas. Here's a good list to start with:

Should:
3 HP VSP
Large cartridge filter
60k rated SWCG
Jandy Neverlube (or Pentair) diverter and check valves only
External heater bypass
Two skimmers (independently plumbed)
4' depth in shallow end
2.5" suction
Unions on all equipment
Overflow drain
Fill line (autofill or electronically controlled valve)
Light at equipment pad

"Nice to have":
Heater
Chiller
Automation
Surge protection
GFCI at equipment pad
Extra empty conduit for future growth (landscape lighting, speakers, etc.)
Robot cleaner
Toe tile

Optional:
Main drain
Suction port
Removable hand rail
Umbrella sleeves

Don't:
UV
Ozone
Mineral systems
Tab feeder
Ball valves
SVRS pump

Thank you for the detailed list. A question I have regarding this, is what's the biggest pushback a PB will give re these? ie - is an extra/empty conduit line a typical ask? How about 2 skimmers?

TIA

 

[pjt]

A question I have regarding this, is what's the biggest pushback a PB will give re these?

By all means, have a discussion with the PB regarding what you want and why. They may have great ideas to meet your needs and you can collaborate on the project. However, if your PB gives pushback against reasonable and logical customer desires, maybe it's time to find another PB. It's your money, your pool, and ultimately you are the final decision authority.

is an extra/empty conduit line a typical ask? How about 2 skimmers?

Both are typical. It's very easy to lay extra conduit when the trenches are open and the yard is a construction zone. Two skimmers should be the norm for the vast majority of pools.