Nodejs Pool Controller, work with pump only?

[john800xc]

Hello everyone, I have read through many posts from the experts on the DIY Pool Controller setup and the work done is incredible.

I started down the road of getting the Pool controller setup, unfortunately I can not get a hold of a Raspberry Pi so I have been running it on a Windows laptop with Raspberry Pi operating system. I think this isn't working great and may be an issue but not related to my current question.

My pool:

Concrete pool and spa which overflows.
Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Ultra energy efficient pump with is plumbed to pull from and return to the pool and spa, vice versa or a combination.
Separate I believe 2 HP pump which only pulls from the spa and returns to the spa. This pump has no control panel on it and is NOT connected to my pool heater.
Pool heater plumbed with Pentair variable speed pump
I have NO pool automation (Intelli touch, synch, etc.).

I have an RS485 USB adapter and the Pentair communication connector and wired them up and I don't seem to be getting any signals from the pool pump.

Which is my question, can I connect to the pump without it being connected to one Pentair's automation systems (which like all of us, I'd rather not even have).

Thanks for any help!

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Paging @rstrouse

 

[rstrouse]

Yeah the Raspberry Pi's are on the endangered species list right now. There are a couple of places where you can still buy them but most places aren't shipping until the end of February. I hope there are some mating pairs still left in the wild out there.

Yes you can connect and control your pump without an OCP. You will not see any signals from the pump until you tell it to do something from the pool controller. These pumps only speak when spoken to. Do you have the dashPanel installed and did you configure the pump?

Here is a guide on the wiki to show how to set the pump up in the software

Nixie Controller Setup

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

If you submit an issue on the repo we can work through it there if you are struggling.

Issues · tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - Issues · tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

 

[john800xc]

Yeah the Raspberry Pi's are on the endangered species list right now. There are a couple of places where you can still buy them but most places aren't shipping until the end of February. I hope there are some mating pairs still left in the wild out there.

Yes you can connect and control your pump without an OCP. You will not see any signals from the pump until you tell it to do something from the pool controller. These pumps only speak when spoken to. Do you have the dashPanel installed and did you configure the pump?

Here is a guide on the wiki to show how to set the pump up in the software

Nixie Controller Setup

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

If you submit an issue on the repo we can work through it there if you are struggling.

Issues · tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - Issues · tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

Thanks for the info and all your assistance with everything. I've been trying to run the Raspberry Pi OS on an laptop. I don't think it's ideal and I am having trouble getting dashPanel and the pool controller installed correctly. Im going to work on getting a RPi ASAP and start over from there. I am glad to hear my efforts aren't without worth knowing that it will work to the pump directly. Thanks again.

 

[laprjns]

nodejs is java code so it is platform-independent. Skip the raspberry pi OS and install directly on Windows

Node.js — Download Node.js®

Node.js® is a JavaScript runtime built on Chrome's V8 JavaScript engine.

nodejs.org

 

[rstrouse]

Yeah don't run the Raspberry Pi OS. Install node and git on the Windows OS. Then clone the repos as in the instructions and you should off and running.

The only thing you will not be able to do is interact with the GPIO or I2c interfaces in REM but if you want to simulate relays it will let you install mock cards and manage states on a mock GPIO array just like it was on a pi.

 

[john800xc]

Thanks guys. A quick question you guys might know:

My RS485 adapter was detected automatically with Windows and didn't require a driver install. Where should I tell my config.json file to look for the adapter?

I'm getting this error: Unable to Open Port "/dev/ttyUSB0"

 

[rstrouse]

What comm port was assigned to the adapter? You can set it in config.json or using the dashPanel configuration. It will be something like COM1, COM2, ... COMx.

 

[john800xc]

Got it working! Thanks for all your help. One last question and I'll start tinkering.

Is their any alternative to a Raspberry Pi? Right now I've got the laptop out there next to the pump and VNCing into it is working. I suppose a tiny form factor windows PC would work? Of course not ideal, Thanks again.

 

[rstrouse]

Yeah it will work on BeagleBone and OrangePi but that is for the linux-heads and will be a lot of fiddling. It will operate perfecty on a NUC but there are some limitations if you are planning to build a complete Nixie controller. These revolve around hardware control in that the REM drivers have only been developed for broadcom based system. Bear in mind this is only if you want to control relays directly from njsPC. All RS485 connected devices will not be an issue. CanaKit does still have some in kits available if you go to their website including some 4Gb models.

CanaKit Raspberry Pi 4 EXTREME Kit - Aluminum (Silver and Black)

www.canakit.com

Bear in mind you can also access RS485 using a wifi adapter or through an RS485 to Ethernet dongle. So you can have njsPC run on a computer inside the house with RS485 being served to that computer.

 

[john800xc]

Yeah it will work on BeagleBone and OrangePi but that is for the linux-heads and will be a lot of fiddling. It will operate perfecty on a NUC but there are some limitations if you are planning to build a complete Nixie controller. These revolve around hardware control in that the REM drivers have only been developed for broadcom based system. Bear in mind this is only if you want to control relays directly from njsPC. All RS485 connected devices will not be an issue. CanaKit does still have some in kits available if you go to their website including some 4Gb models.

CanaKit Raspberry Pi 4 EXTREME Kit - Aluminum (Silver and Black)

www.canakit.com

Bear in mind you can also access RS485 using a wifi adapter or through an RS485 to Ethernet dongle. So you can have njsPC run on a computer inside the house with RS485 being served to that computer.

Thanks, again!

I definitely want to slowly add more functionality to my pool controller. One step at a time. Here is what I am planning:

1. Add three valve actuators to control:

A. Spa vs pool return
B. Spa vs pool suction
C. Vacuum vs skimmer suction

2. Turn on and off Spa Booster Pump. This is a one speed 240v pump which only recirculates the spa. No filter, valve or heater on it.

3. Control heater. I have an old heater with mechanical thermostats and a Spa/off/pool mode. Works great and I've rebuilt the whole thing for cheap. It's a tank. I'd like to add a thermostat and control the heater with on off (bypassing the manual thermostats on it).

Im going to order a PI from Canakit as you posted as it looks like I'll be needing it to run REM for the relays.

This is all a little foreign to me but I'm going to tackle one of these at a time and I am really thankful for all your help.. Getting my inteliflo pump controlled from my phone was an achievement for me sure sure!

 

[rstrouse]

That all looks very doable. You will need 5 relays on the pi for the 3 valves, booster pump, and heater. If you stack a Sequent Relay 8 onto the pi you will have 3 relays left for other things like lighting (you can stack up to 8 of these on one pi for 64 relays).

Then you will need 3hp relay for the spa booster pump. njsPC will control the thermostat for you and call for heat when it needs it and perform cooldown delays when you disengage the heater. You will be able to have setpoints for either the pool or spa, set up schedules, and create thematic groups to control your equipment.

njsPC also supports lighting themes for IntelliBrite and ColorLogic. It can control UltraTemp and solar heaters, IntelliChlor, AquaRite, landscape lighting, IntelliChem, and DIY Chemistry controllers. All of which you can expand when you want.

 

[rstrouse]

Also if you have not seen these wikis they have some advice on how to wire all this up. The second one is simply to add chemistry control and automatic dosing.

DIY Standalone Nixie Pool Controller

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

DIY REM Chem Controller

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController

github.com

 

[john800xc]

Incredible. That first Wiki answered all my questions. I'm going to copy that exact setup and it looks perfect. Thanks again.

Should I start a thread somewhere else more appropriate than here for questions about it?

 

[rstrouse]

This is your thread. I marked it to monitor. Let me know if you have any questions.

There is also an active gitter lobby at nodejs-poolController/Lobby

 

[john800xc]

So I have ordered most of the major components I will need (using your wiki). I've got coming soon:

1. Raspberry Pi 4
2. 24vdc power supply
3. 24vac power supply
4. Sequent Microsystems MEGA-BAS Building Automation Card
5. Sequent Microsystems relay hat
6. Assorted DIN Rail terminals
7. Two Temperature Sensors

I haven't ordered valve actuators just yet. I have read the cheaper Intermatic ones have quality issues. So I have some valve automation questions and I am guessing theirs's a wiki or post somewhere that answers these questions and I am looking.

My setup is pretty simple. My Spa overflows into the pool and the water level is a couple feet higher than the pool.

Return side is only Pool vs Spa after the heater.

Suction side is:

1. Pool Vs Spa
2. On pool side is vacuum port vs skimmer/main drain

So I only need three valves to have full control over the pool. I believe 180 degree valves will work fine for me. I don't usually have the spa or pool suction/return lines "mixing" the two and I can use the PoolController to run full skimmer for a certain time and then run full vacuum.

Is their anything I am missing about having full control over each valve to have it move say a half, quarter, etc.? Or is it easier than I am imagining?

 

[rstrouse]

Take a few pictures of the equipment and valve positions. Under normal circumstances the valves are standard so most valve actuators will work. The ones such as the Intermatic, Pentair CV24, and Jandy JVA have cams in them to allow you to adjust each endpoint of the valve. They work ok but for me they were my number one item that I had to fix. Over a 10 year period, adjustment cams cracked, and microswitches on the stops went bad. They worked great for a while but I found myself adjusting the cams more often than I would like, especially on the suction side cleaner valve and laminar jets since the mechanical nature of the valve doesn't always hit the endpoint exactly.

There is some slop. My laminar jets are installed in the deck at a position that is 18 inches lower than the water level so if the valve didn't exactly seat back to the fully closed position the pool would drain down 18 inches through the jet drains. On the cleaner it would run faster or slower depending on where the valve landed. I did put another regulator on the line to smooth it out but it was annoying. I am sure the cam cracks were partially because I had to adjust them so often.

So I switched all the valves over to the new IntelliValve. While it doesn't have RS485 capabilities that were promised the endpoints have been rock solid and you don't have to disassemble the actuator to set them. They are quite a bit more expensive than their mechanical counterparts but I haven't adjusted a valve since I put them in. They do not use mechanical means to set the endpoint so the cams can't slip and there is no mechanical switch for the endpoint.

The bottom line is that many pools have mechanical actuators and do just fine. Your setup may not be as sensitive as mine and will do just fine with the mechanical actuators. Either one will work but I am just sharing my experiences so ymmv.

Again shoot some pictures of your existing equipment and I will be happy to give advice where I have it.

 

[john800xc]

I believe I am in the same situation as you. I need my valves especially for the spa return to fully close or the spa will slowly drain when the pump is off into the pool. I am leaning heavily towards the Intelivalve. I only need three so it's $600.

Of course, I have a likely obvious question. The PoolController will be able to control these valves in the various degrees of movement? or is it a full off or full on situation?

Here are the pictures, sorry, didn't clean anything up for them. Pretty simple setup piping wise.

 

[rstrouse]

Of course, I have a likely obvious question. The PoolController will be able to control these valves in the various degrees of movement? or is it a full off or full on situation?

Unfortunately, I believe that the firmware required to make these valves have remote endpoints does not exist on the valves. We have beat the bits out of these things to see if there was a path but alas there is not. The only difference between the CV24 style valve and the IntelliValve is the ease of adjustment and they are more accurate when returning to their endpoint.

Pentair keeps promising that there will be remote endpoint control but I have all but lost hope in that. The reason for the pessimism is because the expected release date for the functionality was 4 years ago. If the functionality does come I will jump up and down waving the cane in the air that I will likely need by then. Of course you could blame everything on covid or supply chain but the digital bits to make this work aren't stuck on a ship 150miles off Long Beach. Besides everybody knows bits can swim.

 

[john800xc]

Sounds like I want them. I ordered one as that's all the place I saw had in stock. I will see if I like it and then go for two more. Don't need part overload, right now anyway.

However I have progress!

Got all my parts today but the enclosure is a few days away of course. I made the following progress on the bench. BTW - I bought everything exactly per the wiki you linked.

1. Pi up and running with all software
2. Both relay and BAS hats installed
3. Installed a temperature sensor and got it working on the bench and communicating with the pool controller - I almost came back here for help but I got it.
4. RS485 Pass Thru seems to be working controlling my variable speed pump

I am pretty happy. Maybe I didn't mention it, but I had never even heard of the Raspberry Pi before a couple weeks ago or ever used Linux or any other OS than Windows.

I'll wait for the enclosure, get the parts into there and install the power supplies.\

Okay, I do have a question, is the coin battery necessary on the BAS?