- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Newbie: Time to fix this green pool
- Thread starter idle_furiouso
- Start date
Ohhhhhhhh. Dang, I didn't know this was possible. This is how much of a pool newbie I am.
Update: Pool looks about the same as the last post and I'm struggling keep the FC up. I just dumped 6 gal liquid chlorine in. HOWEVER, I think I know the problem. It's the filter. When I first posted here it was at 23 PSI. Keep in mind, I had no prior reference to go on. Today, I had a panic moment when I saw how high it was (maybe 40?!!) and immediately went into triage mode. I figured out how to backwash and after turning things back on it was at 14!!! Omg, why didn't I start with doing the backwash first. So things should be flowing better and getting moved around in the water better too. Meanwhile, I'm going to go back in a couple hours and see what the readings are.
Also, when backwashing, you are dumping water so I assume it is customary to add water back in after doing that? Seems like that every backwash could through off CYA and/or FC numbers, no??
Also, when backwashing, you are dumping water so I assume it is customary to add water back in after doing that? Seems like that every backwash could through off CYA and/or FC numbers, no??
- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Depends on pool volume and length of backwash, but sure. As water goes out, so do chemicals. Then the new water has its own pH & TA (and no CYA) so you have to watch those every so often.
So PSI was up to 18.5 (from 14) in the matter of a few hours. So I went ahead and did another backwash and reading is now at 13. I didn't expect to have to do another backwash in the same day - is that normal? Or does that indicate other issues potentially? Does the filter need a deep clean?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Not normal. Remember a few days ago when you had all that green water (algae)? It's still there. Until you complete the entire SLAM Process you will go back & forth with organics overloading the filter. There was a time where your CYA went from 40, down to 30 and possibly lower. So first you need to confirm the new CYA as it stands today, then increase (and maintain) the elevated SLAM FC level until you pass all 3 SLAM criteria. Unless you do that, the algae will just return, especially in this TX heat.
The CYA was 30-35 earlier today (added stabilizer granulars last night). But the FC was 1.5, so I just added another 6 gallons of liquid chlorine a bit ago. I feel like it's doing nothing.... The app only has me add a few gallons at most, so I feel like I'm overdoing it try to get it elevated. I'll be back in a few hours to re-measure things. And I'll add more chlorine because I'm sure I'll be nowhere near 12 FC. Any other suggestions? How much chlorine is too much to add at once?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Round-up the CYA to 40. That requires a SLAM FC level of "16". This means add the required dosage of liquid chlorine to reach 16, then test again as much as needed throughout the day to try and keep the FC at 16. This can go on for several days as part of the SLAM Process. The FC will fall quickly in the early part of the SLAM, but should later start to stabilize better. But at first, test in 30 min, then an hour, then maybe 2-3 hrs, until you see it holding. Add chlorine as needed to maintain an FC of 16. If the FC crashes below 10, it does no good and you'll lose progress.
OK, this all makes sense. It's slightly hard for me to sit and wait around and monitor because we aren't living at this house (under major renovation). Each trip is a 15 min drive one way (which isn't bad), but considering work, kids, etc it gets challenging. I've been trying to make it there 3x a day. I think I'm just gonna dump is a ton of chlorine when I head over this evening (more than 6 gallons). I'll do my best to keep re-testing.
The other thing is, I have no idea what the "required dosage of liquid chlorine to reach 16" is. The app tells me to add X based on FC level and I've been doubling it and it's not enough still. :/
The other thing is, I have no idea what the "required dosage of liquid chlorine to reach 16" is. The app tells me to add X based on FC level and I've been doubling it and it's not enough still. :/
- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
If you are using the PoolMath APP, go to the "Effects of Adding" section. There you will see an area to select chlorine (bleach), then the proper % strength. When you select an amount next to "Gallons", it will tell you the expected change for the FC level below in the "Estimated Effects" section. It's quite accurate as long as your pool profile info in the APP is correct.
What that app can't do for you is test and anticipate how much the FC will fall based on your schedule. So let's say at 12:00 noon your FC is only at 1 ppm. Your use the app to determine how many gallons is equal to 15 ppm (Estimated Effects section) and you add that amount at 12:00 noon. If you were to check the FC at 1:00 pm it may have already fallen down to 5 ppm, so now you need to figure out how much chlorine is needed to increase the FC by 11 ppm to reach the SLAM level of 16. Remember, the beginning of the SLAM the FC will fall quicker because the organics in the water are much higher and active.
If that's what you have been doing in the app - great. If any of this seems odd to you, let us know. Your time away does seem to be hurting you at the moment when the beginning of the SLAM is the most critical to monitor, test, and add chlorine a bit more frequently. If you aren't able to be there enough, you may need to consider another strategy like a large water exchange if it's cheaper than all the chlorine that being wasted. Just something to think about.
Last night at 6:30p:
- 15 PSI, 1.0 FC, 30 CYA
- Added 8 gal of 10% Liquid Chlorine
- Added 3 lb stabilizer
This morning at 6:30a:
- 23 PSI, 2.0 FC, 50 CYA (grr)
- backwashed
- 13.5 PSI
- Added 8 gal of 10% Liquid Chlorine (that's all I had left), ran hose for a bit
* I measured the FC ~15 min after adding it and it was at 9 FC. I don't know if that's meaningful, because I'm sure it depends where the sample was taken and how well everything was circulated in the water.
I feel like pulling my hair out. Too much stabilizer this time. I can't believe 8 gal last night hardly made a dent in chlorine levels over night.
I'll be back at the property at 9:30a today. I'm going to try to babysit it as much as I can today and just work remotely from my car. But it feels like I'm buying and adding obscene amounts of liquid chlorine and something doesn't feel right. Gut tells me I should deep clean the filter, but I'm not 100% confident in how to do it - all the videos I have seen of people doing it show the filter completely detached and doing it standalone - I'd like some confidence in how to do it when attached to everything using the hose method. Could this be part of the problem? Or not really?
- 15 PSI, 1.0 FC, 30 CYA
- Added 8 gal of 10% Liquid Chlorine
- Added 3 lb stabilizer
This morning at 6:30a:
- 23 PSI, 2.0 FC, 50 CYA (grr)
- backwashed
- 13.5 PSI
- Added 8 gal of 10% Liquid Chlorine (that's all I had left), ran hose for a bit
* I measured the FC ~15 min after adding it and it was at 9 FC. I don't know if that's meaningful, because I'm sure it depends where the sample was taken and how well everything was circulated in the water.
I feel like pulling my hair out. Too much stabilizer this time. I can't believe 8 gal last night hardly made a dent in chlorine levels over night.
I'll be back at the property at 9:30a today. I'm going to try to babysit it as much as I can today and just work remotely from my car. But it feels like I'm buying and adding obscene amounts of liquid chlorine and something doesn't feel right. Gut tells me I should deep clean the filter, but I'm not 100% confident in how to do it - all the videos I have seen of people doing it show the filter completely detached and doing it standalone - I'd like some confidence in how to do it when attached to everything using the hose method. Could this be part of the problem? Or not really?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 52,024
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Even if your filter needs a deep cleaning, that doesn't explain the huge FC drop. It's also unfortunate you increased the CYA so much because now it requires a higher SLAM FC level of "20". I know yesterday I mentioned the possibility of changing water, and that may still be a good option for you if you don't get things in order because chlorine costs add-up. But let's be sure of some basic before you get back to the property this morning.
FC testing. You should be taking a 10 ml water sample from the same place in the pool each time about elbow's deep in the water. Add ONE generous scoop of powder to that 10 ml water sample. Count drops and mix until clear. Take result and divide in half. Example: 40 drops to clear equals an FC of 20.
CYA Testing:
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Use the mixing bottle to gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Recommend standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body at waist level. Then, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. To help the eyes and prevent staring at the dot, some people find it better to pour & view in stages. Pour some solution into the viewing tube, look away, then look back again for the dot. Repeat as necessary until you feel the dot is gone. After the first CYA test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, gently shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate your own CYA reading. Finally, if you still doubt your own reading, have a friend do the test. Don't tell them your numbers until they have completed their own testing, then compare the results.
Those two tests are the cornerstone of how to prevent algae. If you are able to stay close to the pool for even 2-3 hours, you "should" be able to break through this ridiculous FC drop. I would do the following and have a LOT of chlorine on-hand ready to go:
1. Increase the FC to the proper SLAM FC level (20). Test it again in 10 minutes. Don't wait any longer.
2. However much the FC fell, increase it back to SLAM level (20) right away.
3. Test again in another 10 minutes. Hopefully it will hold better, but if not, increase it again.
4. Repeat as necessary (frequently) until you see the FC showing signs of holing.
Eventually, you should be able to break away from the 10 minute interval and find the FC holding MUCH better over 30 min, then 1 hr, then two, and eventually becoming more steady and predictable to where you only need to test and increase the FC 2-3 times per day. But in the beginning this morning, stay on that FC. Don't let it crash.
FC testing. You should be taking a 10 ml water sample from the same place in the pool each time about elbow's deep in the water. Add ONE generous scoop of powder to that 10 ml water sample. Count drops and mix until clear. Take result and divide in half. Example: 40 drops to clear equals an FC of 20.
CYA Testing:
Proper lighting is critical for the CYA test, so you want to test for CYA outside on a bright sunny day. Use the mixing bottle to gently mix the required amounts of pool water and R-0013 reagent, let sit for 30 seconds, then gently mix again. Recommend standing outside with your back to the sun and the view tube in the shade of your body at waist level. Then, begin squirting the mixed solution into the skinny tube. Watch the black dot until it completely disappears. Once it disappears, record the CYA reading. To help the eyes and prevent staring at the dot, some people find it better to pour & view in stages. Pour some solution into the viewing tube, look away, then look back again for the dot. Repeat as necessary until you feel the dot is gone. After the first CYA test, you can pour the mixed solution from the skinny view tube back to the mixing bottle, gently shake, and do the same test a second, third, or fourth time to instill consistency in your technique, become more comfortable with the testing, and validate your own CYA reading. Finally, if you still doubt your own reading, have a friend do the test. Don't tell them your numbers until they have completed their own testing, then compare the results.
Those two tests are the cornerstone of how to prevent algae. If you are able to stay close to the pool for even 2-3 hours, you "should" be able to break through this ridiculous FC drop. I would do the following and have a LOT of chlorine on-hand ready to go:
1. Increase the FC to the proper SLAM FC level (20). Test it again in 10 minutes. Don't wait any longer.
2. However much the FC fell, increase it back to SLAM level (20) right away.
3. Test again in another 10 minutes. Hopefully it will hold better, but if not, increase it again.
4. Repeat as necessary (frequently) until you see the FC showing signs of holing.
Eventually, you should be able to break away from the 10 minute interval and find the FC holding MUCH better over 30 min, then 1 hr, then two, and eventually becoming more steady and predictable to where you only need to test and increase the FC 2-3 times per day. But in the beginning this morning, stay on that FC. Don't let it crash.
Thank you for the response!
Re: FC testing, that's what I have been doing. Although, I admit the tiny scoop that is included with the powder leaves a lot up to the person. By "generous scoop", I assume that means the powder is a large mind and also partially on the handle a bit. Maybe I'm doing too much?
Re: CYA testing, at 6:30a it was not sunny (the sun was just coming up), so I'm really hoping my env conditions were the cause of a higher than anticipated reading. I'll re-test of course. These are some good tips though! Sometimes I can just very faintly see the dot, does that mean add more drops? It should be completely undetectable I assume.
Great idea, I'm going to try testing the FC level at 10 minute intervals. The question is how many gallons should I bring with me??? 20? Is that enough? Too bad I have 20 being delivered later today and not now.
Re: FC testing, that's what I have been doing. Although, I admit the tiny scoop that is included with the powder leaves a lot up to the person. By "generous scoop", I assume that means the powder is a large mind and also partially on the handle a bit. Maybe I'm doing too much?
Re: CYA testing, at 6:30a it was not sunny (the sun was just coming up), so I'm really hoping my env conditions were the cause of a higher than anticipated reading. I'll re-test of course. These are some good tips though! Sometimes I can just very faintly see the dot, does that mean add more drops? It should be completely undetectable I assume.
Great idea, I'm going to try testing the FC level at 10 minute intervals. The question is how many gallons should I bring with me??? 20? Is that enough? Too bad I have 20 being delivered later today and not now.
Hang in there - Texas Splash knows what he is talking about. 'Tis a crime that the pool company let it get so out of control.
Yes, you will be using what seems to be insane amounts of Cl. As he noted, there's a LOT of stuff to kill (and perhaps a concentration of ammonia) that takes a lot to break through.
While seeming to pour a lot of $$ into the pool and stocking many cases of Cl, seems problematic, his advice is the cheapest way to get out of it.
The time to monitor and babysit at the beginning is bad. Unfortunately there is no quick fix - but the time commitment will ease as things progress.
As far as the filter - it seems like it is doing it's job, there is just an awful lot for it to do. A deep clean might help for a little while, but it is filtering out so much, it will be somewhat counter productive at this point. Think about that after things get much better.
A not great alternative is to plumb in a valve before the filter, so you can skip the filter and discharge the nasty stuff directly when vacuuming. It will be money to install that, and the vacuuming will discharge a lot of water - so there is the cost to refill, and the cost to rebalance the chemicals. Just draining and refilling (various ways) will help some, but there is still a lot of stuff on the sides and bottom that that won't get. So still vacuuming needed, and filter backwashing.
Stay the course - he'll get you through.
Yes, you will be using what seems to be insane amounts of Cl. As he noted, there's a LOT of stuff to kill (and perhaps a concentration of ammonia) that takes a lot to break through.
While seeming to pour a lot of $$ into the pool and stocking many cases of Cl, seems problematic, his advice is the cheapest way to get out of it.
The time to monitor and babysit at the beginning is bad. Unfortunately there is no quick fix - but the time commitment will ease as things progress.
As far as the filter - it seems like it is doing it's job, there is just an awful lot for it to do. A deep clean might help for a little while, but it is filtering out so much, it will be somewhat counter productive at this point. Think about that after things get much better.
A not great alternative is to plumb in a valve before the filter, so you can skip the filter and discharge the nasty stuff directly when vacuuming. It will be money to install that, and the vacuuming will discharge a lot of water - so there is the cost to refill, and the cost to rebalance the chemicals. Just draining and refilling (various ways) will help some, but there is still a lot of stuff on the sides and bottom that that won't get. So still vacuuming needed, and filter backwashing.
Stay the course - he'll get you through.
Hello! So things are shifting... perhaps it is how I am testing? I was maybe going forearm deep on water scoops, now I make sure I'm going elbow deep and I've got much better results. Here is how today is shaping up.
9:44a - 13.5 PSI, 18 FC, 40 CYA
10:17a - 17 FC
10:20a - 1 gal 10% Cl (preventive, as I needed to run to store to pickup new telescoping pole, mine broke)
10:55a - 13.5 PSI, 15 FC
11:00a - 4 (or was it 5?) gal Cl
11:16 - 30 FC
I'm a little bit at of a loss of how to get this hot tub clean. I've been using the hose/manual vacuum plugged in via the skimmer, but, meh, it's not really accomplishing much. You can see how much nastier that side is. It's just tons of fine particles. There is no skimmer basket in the hot tub (not even sure if hot tubs have those). Any suggestions?
Also, can/should I be doing anythign to make the water less cloudy - because it is so hard to see where one should be scrubbing.
9:44a - 13.5 PSI, 18 FC, 40 CYA
10:17a - 17 FC
10:20a - 1 gal 10% Cl (preventive, as I needed to run to store to pickup new telescoping pole, mine broke)
10:55a - 13.5 PSI, 15 FC
11:00a - 4 (or was it 5?) gal Cl
11:16 - 30 FC
I'm a little bit at of a loss of how to get this hot tub clean. I've been using the hose/manual vacuum plugged in via the skimmer, but, meh, it's not really accomplishing much. You can see how much nastier that side is. It's just tons of fine particles. There is no skimmer basket in the hot tub (not even sure if hot tubs have those). Any suggestions?
Also, can/should I be doing anythign to make the water less cloudy - because it is so hard to see where one should be scrubbing.
Attachments
As I'm thinking about, it feels like the circulation on the hot tub is not that great. Should I be doing something special to help improve that?
Hg433
Well-known member
If you can find store that sells 12% LC instead of 10% LC that helps the process a lot.
If you have pool robot, have it run multiple times or brush the pool. Clean all skimmer baskets thoroughly if not done already.
Also, Have you tested for CC, CC should be 0 for a week, as it is one of the three exit criteria's.
If you have pool robot, have it run multiple times or brush the pool. Clean all skimmer baskets thoroughly if not done already.
Also, Have you tested for CC, CC should be 0 for a week, as it is one of the three exit criteria's.
Actually, you are making great progress - compare to the swamp photos posted on Thur. Can't advise on the hot tub - your plumbing is more complicated than mine. It should be possible to dial down the output to the pool outlets, and thereby increasing the amount of water that goes to the spa. But let's defer to Texas Splash for the how-to.
CC for a week at zero is pretty stringent. That's not one of the criteria. Passing the Overnight test with .5 or less is the criteria. Some go an extra day and retest the overnight, to make sure, before declaring it done. After all is said and done and you've passed, going above .5 CC in routine testing is cause for thinking about another SLAM....
SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain
CC for a week at zero is pretty stringent. That's not one of the criteria. Passing the Overnight test with .5 or less is the criteria. Some go an extra day and retest the overnight, to make sure, before declaring it done. After all is said and done and you've passed, going above .5 CC in routine testing is cause for thinking about another SLAM....
SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain
I haven't seen 12%, but I have A LOT of gallons of 10% at the moment.
Thanks for the tip!We just have a very basic / old school robot that is hooked up to the pool and goes through the filter - it doesn't seem to get much honestly. I've been looking at Dolphin Nautilus Pro (and similar options)... I think that would really help this process.
CC @ 0 for an entire week?! Yikes, I have not been testing that. I just went back and read the docs, it doesn't say anything about it being at 0 for a week??
I'm definitely failing #3.