Newbie needs SLAMing advice, and how much sodium hypochlorite in Clorox Bleach?

[kimkats]

Hi! I cannot get a pic of my set up as I am under a tornado threat! Got to love Florida in the summer! But the pond is loving it!

JBF did the AWESOME pic with the labels. I wish I knew how to do that!

So I had my husband look at your hoses and he says that they all can be used with chlorine. The only real problem is what we are facing with not being able to stop the water......That can be fixed later when you drain the pool.

On to how to fix/clear the pool for now.......I am thinking about the skimmer/return. No good circulation and problems with filtering is leading to the cloudy.

Two ideas:
1. Find something that can be put in the skimmer and in the return to act as plugs at the pool. Not sure what to use but thinking large corks that taper, a tennis ball in the skimmer, ????? This will allow you to deep clean the filter sand.

2.Doing like Tom says. Skimmer hose to be used to take in the water at another level.


DE may help now. I hope you can find it at a good price.

Now comes what I am not 100% of but my husband says may be the problem. Your pump/filter/equipment is too far from your pool.That could be why your cleaner does not work. Just not enough suction.

Your circulation could also be a problem due to the return not having an adjustable eyeball so your water does not go around the pool to "push" it into the skimmer to go to the filter.

So you see---------no control of the pushing from the return and no sucking to the pump. All of that could equal to a cloudy pool due to filter now really have a chance to do it's job.

You can fix any and all of this with our help. Your Dad may have to help when the time comes to do the permanent fix as it might take two sets of hands. This will be later when you are ready to close the pool.

For now think over what you think you can do NOW to get those girls in the water. (Shhhh don't tell them but my husband said to let them in the pool and start running around the pool to make the water go in the direction needed to help the water go around the pool and into the skimmer LOL)

ANY input from ANY one will not hurt my feelings! All I want is to get those girls swimming!

Kim

 

[JFB]

Darlene. I used Microsoft Paint. Very basic... It's in all windows programs.

I have solar as well, and usually the water enters the solar panels from the bottom of the roof and exits to the pool via the top of the roof. That is how I labeled your plumbing. It took me a little while to figure it out, but your inside and outside shots REALLY helped me. Plus, you should see MY spaghetti of a plumbing job! I have deck jets, solar panels, SWG, etc.etc...

In any case, your plumbing needs upgrading, for sure, but it's not something that is critical to the task at hand of getting the pool clear. It might be an idea to have the pool guy come over to open up that sand filter since it seems you are having a hard time with that. You can film him, or just watch him and then you'll know... It won't cost much I'm sure, and it will save you a bit of time...

I know you are probably losing hope, but if I can offer any advice, is that when (no if) your pool becomes clear, it will be because you followed the advice from people on this forum. HERE is the best place to get your pool perfectly working and clear in the shortest time... Trust here. Keep smiling, you will end this.

 

[JFB]

Darlene. I'm pretty sure you can replace your return jet with an eyeball jet for a couple bucks from the pool store. They are just screw in. If you had a picture of the current jet (if the water isn't too cloudy) or a picture of the winter plug you put in the jet, or even remove the jet from the water and take a picture, we could tell you exactly what to buy and you could start to get a better circulation...

Looking at your pictures again, I'm starting to think your return jet (with its poor placement) is not allowing dirt to enter the skimmer and get filtered out. Not having a bottom drain leaves you with only the skimmer to suck in the crud to get filtered.

I'm with the others here that have suggested you plug in your vacuum hose in the skimmer and sink the other end in the pool. At least this way, you will not have the return jet pushing all the crud away from your water intake...

 

[Darlene13]

JBF did the AWESOME pic with the labels. I wish I knew how to do that!

Oh, dear! My apologies to JFB, I'm so sorry! Awesome labelling on the photo, JFB!!

So I had my husband look at your hoses and he says that they all can be used with chlorine. The only real problem is what we are facing with not being able to stop the water......That can be fixed later when you drain the pool.

Thank your hubby for me, Kim! I appreciate that!!

On to how to fix/clear the pool for now.......I am thinking about the skimmer/return. No good circulation and problems with filtering is leading to the cloudy.

Two ideas:
1. Find something that can be put in the skimmer and in the return to act as plugs at the pool. Not sure what to use but thinking large corks that taper, a tennis ball in the skimmer, ????? This will allow you to deep clean the filter sand.

2.Doing like Tom says. Skimmer hose to be used to take in the water at another level.

I'm going to go with #2 for now. I still don't feel comfortable at this point attempting to disconnect hoses and opening up the Sand Filter with no ability to block/stop the flow of water between the Pump and the Sand Filter.

DE may help now. I hope you can find it at a good price.

The quote is $27.33 for 11.34 kg bag (that's 25 pounds). Is that good or bad? By the way, this is the ONLY source that I could find in Canada for "pool grade" DE: ClearTech.

Now comes what I am not 100% of but my husband says may be the problem. Your pump/filter/equipment is too far from your pool.That could be why your cleaner does not work. Just not enough suction.

Your circulation could also be a problem due to the return not having an adjustable eyeball so your water does not go around the pool to "push" it into the skimmer to go to the filter.

So you see---------no control of the pushing from the return and no sucking to the pump. All of that could equal to a cloudy pool due to filter now really have a chance to do it's job.

You can fix any and all of this with our help. Your Dad may have to help when the time comes to do the permanent fix as it might take two sets of hands. This will be later when you are ready to close the pool.

Yes, please, I want to fix this!! Alright, sounds good. We will have to wait for now until September for all that.

For now think over what you think you can do NOW to get those girls in the water. (Shhhh don't tell them but my husband said to let them in the pool and start running around the pool to make the water go in the direction needed to help the water go around the pool and into the skimmer LOL)

LOL, that is a great idea! My older one can definitely do that but my little one doesn't touch bottom yet but she can put her swimmies on and swim around the pool with lots of kicking

ANY input from ANY one will not hurt my feelings! All I want is to get those girls swimming!

Big, big, big HUGS to you Kim for all your wonderful ideas and suggestions! It's supposed to be really hot over the weekend, and I'm going to SLAM in the evening at a lower level (I was hitting Mustard Algae level at 24 ppm) so that the FC drops below 16 ppm so that the girls can swim at least during the daytime.

Stay safe during your tornado watch! And please post pics of your system once you have a chance (and it's safe to do so!), thanks!

 

[Darlene13]

Darlene. I used Microsoft Paint. Very basic... It's in all windows programs.

You did a great job, JFB! I do have MS Paint but just haven't used it. I will start playing

I have solar as well, and usually the water enters the solar panels from the bottom of the roof and exits to the pool via the top of the roof. That is how I labeled your plumbing. It took me a little while to figure it out, but your inside and outside shots REALLY helped me. Plus, you should see MY spaghetti of a plumbing job! I have deck jets, solar panels, SWG, etc.etc...

My brother was over earlier, and we just had an argument about the solar panels, LOL! When I looked at the plumbing and how my valves were switched when I opened and closed the plumbing and followed the pipes/tubes and looked at the roof, I also said the same thing that the water goes upwards to the bottom of the roof and the warm water exits the roof at the top and goes back down to the RETURN pipe back through the Chlorinator and underground to the pool via the Return Jet. My brother told me "no way" because "water doesn't go upwards!" He said that the water should flow from top to bottom on the roof. So, is my set-up backwards? LOL! It wouldn't surprise me!!

In any case, your plumbing needs upgrading, for sure, but it's not something that is critical to the task at hand of getting the pool clear. It might be an idea to have the pool guy come over to open up that sand filter since it seems you are having a hard time with that. You can film him, or just watch him and then you'll know... It won't cost much I'm sure, and it will save you a bit of time...

But with no way to block/stop the flow of water to the Sand Filter, I don't think it can be done unless the water is drained to below the Return Jet of the pool, right? I just don't see how I can open up the Sand Filter now with no way to stop the water I definitely need some shut-off valves, ideally between the incoming skimmer pipe to the pump and then also between the pump and the sand filter.

I was talking to the pool guy back in June (before joining the forum) about changing the sand in the filter, and he said that I should do it next year at the start of the season. Maybe I'll take the photos to the pool guy and tell him that I want to do it now and ask him how I can do that with my set-up. Hopefully, he won't be too hard on me. He assured me that I could change the sand in the filter myself, that it's easy to do but just takes time.

I know you are probably losing hope, but if I can offer any advice, is that when (no if) your pool becomes clear, it will be because you followed the advice from people on this forum. HERE is the best place to get your pool perfectly working and clear in the shortest time... Trust here. Keep smiling, you will end this.

Ohhhhhh, thank you JFB!! I needed to hear that!! Big HUGS to you!! I am getting frustrated, and I just feel badly that my girls can't swim in this heat! But we will on the weekend, and I'll just SLAM in the evening when the mosquitoes get too bad.

 

[Darlene13]

Darlene. I'm pretty sure you can replace your return jet with an eyeball jet for a couple bucks from the pool store. They are just screw in. If you had a picture of the current jet (if the water isn't too cloudy) or a picture of the winter plug you put in the jet, or even remove the jet from the water and take a picture, we could tell you exactly what to buy and you could start to get a better circulation...

There's a winter plug for the jet?? I don't think I've ever seen that! I'm not sure how the jet will appear in the cloudy water, but I'll try it tomorrow in the afternoon when the sunshine hits. So, I can unscrew the jet and it won't affect anything??

Looking at your pictures again, I'm starting to think your return jet (with its poor placement) is not allowing dirt to enter the skimmer and get filtered out. Not having a bottom drain leaves you with only the skimmer to suck in the crud to get filtered.

Blame the placement on the manufacturer! The holes for the skimmer and return jet were pre-cut into the pool wall. Even I can't blame my ex for that, LOL!

Yes, you are right. There is no bottom drain. Only the skimmer.

I'm with the others here that have suggested you plug in your vacuum hose in the skimmer and sink the other end in the pool. At least this way, you will not have the return jet pushing all the crud away from your water intake...

I will give this a shot. Here's the problem that I find with that: The skimmer plate at the end of the vacuum hose that you insert into the skimmer doesn't stay in there. It keeps popping up. Is that because the suction isn't strong enough? It's a PITA!! I usually have to get one of my girls to hold the skimmer plate down while I'm vacuuming. So why is it doing that?

 

[JFB]

Ok... I've just re-read this whole thread...

So for the deep clean. If you want to do one, from what I can see you need to unscrew the two bottom screws. To stop all water flow I would simply turn off the pump. Since the filter seems to be 2-3 feet from the pump, there has to be enough flex in the black PVC pipe to lift the whole head 2-3 inches, enough to slide the filter out. And that filter must have a bottom drain to empty out the water before you try and move it... Look around the bottom for something screwed in...

You can unscrew the jet on the water side IF your plumbing is glued to the pool on the outside of the pool. If it seems unscrewing something inside the pool will disconnect what's on the outside of the pool, then don't do it. But, most jets can be unscrewed because of winterization... My jets unscrew and I have to put a plug in there so when the pool fills up with snow and melts a little, water doesn't enter the plumbing...

So the manufacturer did. Poor job of placement, no matter, it can be fixed... Not right now though...

That vacuum plate really should stay in there no problem... If it lifts, it must mean you have a suction problem... Do I see a kink in the hose by the skimmer? Not sure if that would mess things up. Do you have a pressure gauge anywhere on your system? If you do, I have a feeling it reads pretty low... If you remove the skimmer basket and put your hand down there, and put your fingers near the suction hole, does it feel like you would be afraid to get your fingers stuck in there or would you be able to get them out no problem? Because it should be sucking water quite strongly, stronger than your vacuum in the house sucks air... If that's not the case, then maybe we should be looking at the pump and make sure it's operating within parameters...

Let me know what you find...

 

[JFB]

One more thought... Have you tried turning off the solar for a few days? It takes a bit of pump pressure to send the water up the roof... Maybe it would help your skimmer if all your pump had to do was filter the pool.

 

[Abigail K]

My brother was over earlier, and we just had an argument about the solar panels, LOL! When I looked at the plumbing and how my valves were switched when I opened and closed the plumbing and followed the pipes/tubes and looked at the roof, I also said the same thing that the water goes upwards to the bottom of the roof and the warm water exits the roof at the top and goes back down to the RETURN pipe back through the Chlorinator and underground to the pool via the Return Jet. My brother told me "no way" because "water doesn't go upwards!" He said that the water should flow from top to bottom on the roof. So, is my set-up backwards? LOL! It wouldn't surprise me!!

Hot water rises (because it is less dense), so water flowing from bottom to top on the roof would be the correct way of plumbing.

 

[SunnyOptimism]

How did you attach all the labels to the photo, Kim? What program did you use? Very handy!! If I knew how to do it, I'd use it myself, LOL!

I believe that it is all correct, aside from the two SOLAR ones. To be honest, I have no idea which one is IN and which one is OUT. How can I tell?

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But my fear is that what started as an algae problem is now a filtration issue! The water just won't go clear!!!

I haven't forgotten about DE, by the way, which I think could definitely help. I have been hunting across Canada for a source, and I think I found one. It's manufactured by ClearTech, and I'm just waiting to hear back on pricing.

Yeah. You definitely need to get your filter cleared out. I have a Pentair Quad cartridge/DE filter, not sand, so I am not as familiar with the deep clean process.

From what I've read in PoolSchool it's highly likely you have deep channels in your sand media which means you just circulating water and only marginally filtering at this point.

Best of luck getting that filter apart. You definitely have your work cut out for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TomBorg]

If the vacuum plate is popping out, then, yes, you're not getting as much suction as you should. I agree that you should try bypassing the solar panels if you can. Then backwash for a good five minutes before continuing. (You'll probably need to put fresh water in the pool beforehand so the backwash doesn't drain below the level of the skimmer.) A good, loooong backwash should be tried before going through the effort of deep-cleaning the sand.

If you still have poor suction, then just don't use the vacuum plate. Take the basket out of the skimmer, and plug your vacuum hose directly into the opening at the bottom of the skimmer. It should fit perfectly.

 

[TomBorg]

As for DE, you can also use cellulose fiber, which is easier to get in small packages. I am totally in LOVE with Jack's Magic Filter Fiber Stuff. I just started using it three weeks ago, and it has made my crystal-clear pool even more crystal-clearer.

But you have bigger fish to fry before you worry about adding filter enhancers.

 

[kimkats]

Okay IF I did it right here is my pump/filter WITH labels!

okay I looked at them and the are small. I am not sure how to make them bigger. BUT I think you can click on them and they will come up bigger.

Kim

 

[kimkats]

That price for the DE is not bad. I just paid 19.99 for a big box. Not sure of the size.

I like the idea of shutting off the solar panels to try to filter better.

For right now do NOT worry about your set up. That will come when you close your pool.

How I see it is this:

1.Cannot deep clean filter due to not being able to stop water. Just do a LONG backwash. Make sure your water is high enough so your skimmer does not go dry. Don't forget to rinse before you go back to filter mode.

2. vacuum hose-I HATE my skimmer plate and do NOT use it! I just stick the hose end down the hole of the skimmer. Works MUCH better!

3.set up the vacuum hose with vacuum head on it upside down to try to get the cloudy stuff in the water to the filter.

4. get DE and see if that helps BUT you have to be there to watch the pressure.

5. Keep up the slam once the girls stop swimming for the day.

One day you will look back and say it is over and I did it!

Kim

 

[JFB]

+1 for Kim's suggestions...

 

[Butterfly]

Hi, Butterfly!

If you scroll up and read all the posts over the last few days, we're still trying to figure out how to get at the darn thing!! Right now, I'm not even sure that I have a way to block/stop the flow of water to the Sand Filter. If I have that, then I need to dismantle plumbing because apparently I don't have the proper connectors!!

yep, I saw all that action going on ...... I meant to give you one of these or one of these

Good news is, you have lots of great folks helping you

 

[Darlene13]

If you had a picture of the current jet (if the water isn't too cloudy) or a picture of the winter plug you put in the jet, or even remove the jet from the water and take a picture, we could tell you exactly what to buy and you could start to get a better circulation...

Hi, JFB!

Here's a pic of the current jet:

If you can tell me what I need, I will dash off to the pool store to pick it up!

Thank you!!

 

[Darlene13]

So for the deep clean. If you want to do one, from what I can see you need to unscrew the two bottom screws. To stop all water flow I would simply turn off the pump. Since the filter seems to be 2-3 feet from the pump, there has to be enough flex in the black PVC pipe to lift the whole head 2-3 inches, enough to slide the filter out. And that filter must have a bottom drain to empty out the water before you try and move it... Look around the bottom for something screwed in...

There is no flex in that black PVC pipe from the pump to the sand filter!

You can unscrew the jet on the water side IF your plumbing is glued to the pool on the outside of the pool. If it seems unscrewing something inside the pool will disconnect what's on the outside of the pool, then don't do it.

Here is what it looks like from the outside of the pool:

Do I see a kink in the hose by the skimmer? Not sure if that would mess things up.

No kink.

Do you have a pressure gauge anywhere on your system? If you do, I have a feeling it reads pretty low...

Here's the pressure gauge on the sand filter, when the solar panels are OPEN:

Here's the pressure gauge on the sand filter, when the solar panels are CLOSED:

If you remove the skimmer basket and put your hand down there, and put your fingers near the suction hole, does it feel like you would be afraid to get your fingers stuck in there or would you be able to get them out no problem? Because it should be sucking water quite strongly, stronger than your vacuum in the house sucks air... If that's not the case, then maybe we should be looking at the pump and make sure it's operating within parameters...

I can put my fingers right down the suction hole. It pulls, but not forcefully. I wouldn't say the suction is stronger than my house vacuum.

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One more thought... Have you tried turning off the solar for a few days? It takes a bit of pump pressure to send the water up the roof... Maybe it would help your skimmer if all your pump had to do was filter the pool.

I can try that, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. In the second week of SLAMing, we had thunderstorms every day and my solar panels were closed almost the entire week and the water has not changed since then.

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Hot water rises (because it is less dense), so water flowing from bottom to top on the roof would be the correct way of plumbing.

Whew! Okay, one less thing to worry about, thanks!

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Best of luck getting that filter apart. You definitely have your work cut out for you.

Yup, sure do! Not sure whether I'll be able to tackle it right now, though. Might have to wait until the Fall when the pool is drained down below the Return Jet.

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If the vacuum plate is popping out, then, yes, you're not getting as much suction as you should. I agree that you should try bypassing the solar panels if you can. Then backwash for a good five minutes before continuing. (You'll probably need to put fresh water in the pool beforehand so the backwash doesn't drain below the level of the skimmer.) A good, loooong backwash should be tried before going through the effort of deep-cleaning the sand.

If you still have poor suction, then just don't use the vacuum plate. Take the basket out of the skimmer, and plug your vacuum hose directly into the opening at the bottom of the skimmer. It should fit perfectly.

Alright, I will try a long backwash. I will also take the skimmer plate off the vacuum hose and plug directly into the skimmer. Thank you, TomBorg!

 

[kimkats]

Good news! You do not need to buy anything! That IS an adjustable eyeball jet! See the bumps around the middle ring? That is for your fingers to hold onto while you loosen it to move the eyeball to where you want it!

Now it might be really tight and hard to turn (righty/tighty and leftly/loosey). BUT with a little care you should be able to turn it and move the eye around so you can aim it where you need to.

On my old pool I had to use a wash cloth to put around it while I use slip joint pliers to turn it. The wash cloth was to protect it from the metal teeth of the pliers.

Your solar panels do not pull much at all. Can you feel the difference with your hand in the skimmer or in front of the return when they are on or off?

Getting closer!!

Kim

 

[Darlene13]

As for DE, you can also use cellulose fiber, which is easier to get in small packages. I am totally in LOVE with Jack's Magic Filter Fiber Stuff. I just started using it three weeks ago, and it has made my crystal-clear pool even more crystal-clearer.

I did finally find a source for pool grade DE. It's from ClearTech, for any other Canadians out there who are having a hard time finding it! The Winnipeg distributor is currently out of stock, so it's being trucked in from Saskatoon. It should be here Monday, fingers crossed!