Newbie needs SLAMing advice, and how much sodium hypochlorite in Clorox Bleach?

[Darlene13]

Hi, everyone! What a great community forum, and I'm so glad to have found this website!!

I have battled algae for years. The pool always starts off not bad, kind of cloudy/milky (which is as good as it gets), but it always gets green and murky by July and swampy by August. From following the advice of pool suppliers, it has been an endless cycle of shocking and algicide and other pool chemicals but nothing has ever gotten it crystal clear. From reading the pearls of wisdom on this site, I know now that I've never kept the FC at a high enough level for long enough to kill all the algae.

After I closed the pool in the Fall, the cover blew off on a really windy day and all the leaves that had fallen on the cover got dumped into the pool. I tried to scoop out as much as I could but just as much leaves were falling from the trees into the pool as I was fishing out. My parents had to come over and help me get the cover back on before even more leaves entered the pool so, unfortunately, those leaves stayed in there all winter. When I took the cover off (wish I would have taken a picture), it was a swamp! The amount of leaves that I scooped out was unbelievable. After getting all the debris out of there, I also wanted to try to get the algae out before it got disturbed from the bottom of the pool. I bought a Catfish Pool Blaster manual vacuum and put the microfiber sock in it and the algae sucked off the bottom of pool in sheets. It was gross, but pretty cool to watch all that gunk leaving the pool! Then I filled up the pool and took in a sample to the pool guys and these were the readings on June 8th:

Free chlorine: 0 ppm
Total chlorine: 1.36 ppm
Combined chlorine: 1.36 ppm
pH: 7.5
adjusted pH: 7.5
Total alkalinity: 90 ppm
Adjusted alkalinity: 90 ppm
Stabilizer: 30 ppm
Calcium hardness: 180 ppm
Borate: 13 ppm

So, following the advice of the pool guys, they told me to throw in a Klear Sok and then to use Alkalinity Plus to bump it up the alkalinity, shock the pool (which I had already done twice that week but was surprised to see zero FC), and to add Calcium Plus. I did all that...and then I found this forum! I wasn't going to pay $140 for a test kit from that recommended site here in Canada, and I discovered that Amazon US site sells the Taylor K-2006 kit and will ship to Canada, so that's a tip for other Canadians on this forum if you need to buy a kit. While waiting for my kit to arrive, I've continued shocking the pool and using my manual vacuum to get as much algae out of the pool as possible. It was actually looking pretty good, and then we had nearly a solid week of rain, and this is what it looks like today (I hope that I insert the photo correctly!):



Using my Taylor K-2006 kit, these are my numbers today:

FC: 12.5 ppm
CC: 1 ppm
pH: 7.2
TA: 80 ppm
CH: 190 ppm
CYA: 35 ppm (it was about halfway between 30 and 40)

I am ready to go to PoolMath and plug in the numbers, but I just realized that the Clorox Bleach bottles do not say on the label the amount of sodium hydrochlorite (at least not here in Canada). I bought the 3-pack case from Costco, 3.57 L each of Clorox Bleach. I tried to call the 1-800 # for Clorox Canada, but the Customer Service is closed on the weekend. I even sent a tweet to Clorox Company, but no reply. If anyone can help me out with the % of sodium hypochlorite in Clorox Bleach, I'd really appreciate it! I would love to get this started this afternoon if possible!

Thanks so much for reading my post, and my girls are hoping that mommy can get the pool in shape so that they can go swimming!

 

[Butterfly]

Welcome to TFP

Your days of a pool that is "...kind of cloudy/milky (which is as good as it gets), but it always gets green and murky by July and swampy by August" are over! Soon you'll be a happy member of the sparklypoolitis group

Congratulations on already having the test kit and reading lots! Very nice first post.

Let's see if we can find what that Clorox % is in Canada!

p.s. Tell the girls not to worry. Mommy has this under control

 

[Darlene13]

Thanks for the welcome, Butterfly! It would be so nice to have an algae-free pool! And I do hope other Canadians can chime in one the Clorox %. It's not even posted on the Clorox Canada website

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

The other way to do it would be to use 6% and add enough to raise the FC "X" ppm. "X" being whatever pool math says adding a container of your bleach, to your pool at 6% would achieve. If you retest and you're close to "X" it's 6%. If it's noticeably over "X" then it might be 8% but you should be able to do the math or post the numbers and one of us can.

Forgot my manners, welcome to the forum and don't let yourself get "Pool Stored" anymore. You can be the hero to your girls and save money too !! No more algaecide !! It prevents it doesn't kill. That simple truth tells you that if you see green it's already too late for algaecide to work for you. And ... if you follow the method here and keep your FC (chlorine) level at a proper level in relation to your CYA level you don't need algaecide for a preventative either !!

If those dark areas are leaves and stuff now is the time to get in there with your leaf rake and get everything out. As often as you can stand it, rake it and let it settle, rake it again and let it settle and rake it some more until nothing floats up or is in your net. The more organic stuff you get out now the faster it will turn blue once you start to SLAM and the less bleach you'll use to get it there.

Is this the stuff : http://www.costco.com/Clorox-Concentrated-Germicidal-Bleach-121oz-Bottle-3ct-.product.100081127.html

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Correction, if it's the "concentrated" smaller bottle (121oz) it should be 8.25% I'd do the test described above or just do a regular FC correction using 8.25 instead of the 6% I suggested above and plug it into Pool Math and see if you hit your Pool Math calculation.

 

[Darlene13]

The other way to do it would be to use 6% and add enough to raise the FC "X" ppm. "X" being whatever pool math says adding a container of your bleach, to your pool at 6% would achieve. If you retest and you're close to "X" it's 6%. If it's noticeably over "X" then it might be 8% but you should be able to do the math or post the numbers and one of us can.

Hi, kiss4afrog! I plugged in 6% bleach into PoolMath, so to raise my FC from 12.5 to 16 (I used the # for CYA 40 instead of 35), it says to add 2835 ml. So, I guess I could start with that and retest FC level after 30 minutes. But I better do another run to Costco because that's nearly a whole jug and I only have six on hand!

If those dark areas are leaves and stuff now is the time to get in there with your leaf rake and get everything out. As often as you can stand it, rake it and let it settle, rake it again and let it settle and rake it some more until nothing floats up or is in your net. The more organic stuff you get out now the faster it will turn blue once you start to SLAM and the less bleach you'll use to get it there.

I think the dark areas are just the green algae. It looked like that earlier in the week when I was using the manual pool vac and this is what I sucked up:

Is this the stuff : http://www.costco.com/Clorox-Concentrated-Germicidal-Bleach-121oz-Bottle-3ct-.product.100081127.html

No, mine looks a bit different:



Thanks for your help!

 

[Darlene13]

Correction, if it's the "concentrated" smaller bottle (121oz) it should be 8.25% I'd do the test described above or just do a regular FC correction using 8.25 instead of the 6% I suggested above and plug it into Pool Math and see if you hit your Pool Math calculation.

Hi, again, kiss4afrog. It does say at the top of the label "now concentrated, 3.57 L = 5.38 L". So, based on the switch from 6% to 8.25%, I need to add 2062 ml to raise FC to 16. I better head off to Costco to buy some more!

I'll post my FC level 30 minutes after adding the above amount to see if I'm close to shock level. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Darlene13]

Based on kiss4afrog's advice, I added 2062 ml to raise FC to 16 since I have no idea what the % of Ultra Clorox Bleach is here in Canada (by the way: it doesn't say "Ultra" on the label, but it said "Ultra Clorox" on Costco's price sign...not sure if that's right!). If it's the same as US, it should be 8.25%.

Here are my results 30 minutes later:

Test #1:
SLAM: 16 ppm FC
FC: 12.5 ppm
CC: 0.5 ppm

So, the FC didn't budge but the CC came down a bit. Does that mean that the strength of this bleach is maybe 6% instead of 8.25%? Should I use 6% instead when I plug in the # to PoolMath?

After I SLAMed, I brushed and brushed and brushed and here is what the water looks like now 30 minutes later:



A lovely shade isn't it?

I did add 2062 ml again based on the 8.25% of bleach, but I'm thinking I should plug in the 6% instead since the FC didn't change. I would appreciate if others could weigh in, thanks!

 

[kimkats]

I would plug in 6% just to see what happens. If nothing else it will be a little high.

That is some yucky stuff you are growing there. Kermit would love it LOL

You are going to LOVE your pool NOW with TFP! No more Pool store!

You might want to check if your pool store has chlorine and what % it is. It might be cheaper. It is for me (after I buy the jugs).

Good luck!

Tell the girls it will be soon the Mom gets the pool done!

Kim

 

[JFB]

Darlene13,

Welcome to TFP!

Congrats on finding this website. As mentioned above, your troubles are over. I live in Montreal, an so I understand your frustration with not being able to obtain the TFTest kit or the amount of chlorine in bleach.

Might I suggest getting the TFTest kit (when you decide you want one) shipped to the closest post office on the south side of the border. I did that, drove 45 minutes and picked it up in the US. A little trouble, but that test kit is awesome and it saved me so much trouble with my pool chemistry.

If you want liquid chlorine, Canadian Tire sells the 5L jugs of 10.3% for about 4.99$. I just bought a bunch they were on sale last week. If you have a Lowe's, they probably sell it there as well, since most hardware stores have 10.3%. I gave up trying to figure out how much chlorine bleach had at my local supermarket...

Keep reading this site, and listening to the expert advice given here... This is the only source and reference material you will need. I didn't know anything about pools, except that they were fun to jump into during the summer. I've adopted this site as my reference, adopted the BBB method and have already saved hundreds of dollars by not buying products at my local pool store...

So you know, I have about the same amount of water you have and the only two times I SLAMed, it took me 3 days to get the pool crystal clear. Nothing but bleach and brush. And bleach and brush...

Keep posting your results. Your pool will be crystal clear in no time...

 

[Darlene13]

I would plug in 6% just to see what happens. If nothing else it will be a little high.

Hi, Kim

I waited an hour after Test #1 instead of 30 minutes, since we were in the middle of supper! Here are my new numbers:

Test #2:
SLAM: 16 ppm FC
FC: 14 ppm
CC: 0.5 ppm

So, the FC level is a bit higher this time around. I decided to plug 6% into PoolMath this time around to see if that puts me up to SLAM level, so I added 1.6 L of bleach.

It's thundering out there now, the wind is whipping, and I'm being eaten alive by mosquitoes! I'm also a bit worried that I'm going to run out of R-081 if I keep testing this often! There is a 16 oz bottle on Amazon US, but the seller won't ship to Canada :grrrr: I went on Taylor Technology's website, and they provide Lowry & Associates in Newmarket, ON as their Canadian distributor. I don't see that I can order this reagent on its own without a kit, but I did shoot them an email and will wait and see. So, anyone in Canada know where I can buy just a bottle of reagent? Or a US seller that will ship to Canada?

I did read on another thread that I can wait two hours max to test again, so I'm going to do that this time around. It will probably be dark by then.

And it just started raining!

 

[Casey]

Oh Darlene.... what an awfully green pool you have!

So glad you could join us and get started on the TFPC way! You just keep your SLAM level going and brush your pool and sweep it daily, even blind sweeping is good, and you're going to have the best looking pool you've ever seen!

Keep posting pics and do not get discouraged. Your pool has been a swamp for a long time and it's going to take it's good ole time. Stock up on the bleach and keep it in a cool dark place like the basement and it will keep for a while if you don't get to use it!

 

[bridgman]

I just ordered the 0871 and 0013 (CYA) reagents from http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/ in Montreal. That's where I got my kit as well. They don't seem to sell the big bottles but even a 2 oz looks really big compared to the 0.75 oz bottles in the K-2006 kit.

Another vote for 10.5% pool chlorine from Canadian Tire. I normally get Purox (Chlorox branded) but I imagine the house brand (Aquarius) is fine too.

Hope the cleanup goes quickly & smoothly.

 

[Darlene13]

I live in Montreal, an so I understand your frustration with not being able to obtain the TFTest kit or the amount of chlorine in bleach.

Another Canadian! Hi, JFB!

Might I suggest getting the TFTest kit (when you decide you want one) shipped to the closest post office on the south side of the border. I did that, drove 45 minutes and picked it up in the US. A little trouble, but that test kit is awesome and it saved me so much trouble with my pool chemistry.

That's a great idea! How is that kit different than Taylor K-2006?

If you want liquid chlorine, Canadian Tire sells the 5L jugs of 10.3% for about 4.99$. I just bought a bunch they were on sale last week. If you have a Lowe's, they probably sell it there as well, since most hardware stores have 10.3%. I gave up trying to figure out how much chlorine bleach had at my local supermarket...

No Lowe's around here, but I did see liquid shock at Wal-mart. I figured buying the Clorox in bulk at Costco would wind up cheaper. If I get too frustrated with guessing the % in the Clorox and not getting up to SLAM level, then I'll have to resort to that.

So you know, I have about the same amount of water you have and the only two times I SLAMed, it took me 3 days to get the pool crystal clear. Nothing but bleach and brush. And bleach and brush...

Keep posting your results. Your pool will be crystal clear in no time...

Thanks for the encouragement! And I've got my fingers crossed that it will only take 3 days but I'm not that optimistic!!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh Darlene.... what an awfully green pool you have!

It certainly is! I liked it better before I brushed it

Keep posting pics and do not get discouraged. Your pool has been a swamp for a long time and it's going to take it's good ole time. Stock up on the bleach and keep it in a cool dark place like the basement and it will keep for a while if you don't get to use it!

Thanks, Casey!

 

[JFB]

Another Canadian! Hi, JFB!



That's a great idea! How is that kit different than Taylor K-2006?

I don't think it's different: the reagents are the same I believe. But you have more bang for your buck with a TFTestkit. All I'm saying is when you run out of reagents for your K-2006 (I can't believe apollo pools want 135$ for that kit!!!) get the TFTestkit and save some money... That's all...

As for the chlorine, look at that, it's still on sale!!!

JF

 

[Darlene13]

I just ordered the 0871 and 0013 (CYA) reagents from http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/ in Montreal. That's where I got my kit as well. They don't seem to sell the big bottles but even a 2 oz looks really big compared to the 0.75 oz bottles in the K-2006 kit.

Hi, bridgman! The price for the kit at Apollo was really high, which is why I ordered it from Amazon US. I wish that they would ship the reagents to Canada as well! Good idea on ordering more of the 0013 as well. May as well get both at the same time to save on shipping. I will check out the price for the reagents at Apollo.

Another vote for 10.5% pool chlorine from Canadian Tire. I normally get Purox (Chlorox branded) but I imagine the house brand (Aquarius) is fine too.

Good to know!

Hope the cleanup goes quickly & smoothly.

Thanks, and so do I!

 

[Darlene13]

(I can't believe apollo pools want 135$ for that kit!!!)

I know! I choked when I saw that!! I paid US$52.99 on the Amazon US site, plus US$10.99 shipping and US$10.41 duty...so US$74.36 in total. Still much cheaper than Apollo!

get the TFTestkit and save some money... That's all...

Wish that I would have thought about shipping and picking up across the border. Pembina, ND is a pretty close drive from here.

As for the chlorine, look at that, it's still on sale!!!

That's a great, deal! Bigger jug and higher % (I'm guessing!) than what I have here from Costco. I think I'll be returning these cases tomorrow and heading off to Canadian Tire! Thanks for the info!!

 

[Casey]

get the TFTestkit and save some money... That's all...


JF

I don't think you guys can get the TF100.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Here is a cost per ounce calculator. Sorry it's not metric I haven't found one yet. http://poncatechsquad.com/Dan/Chlorine/ Chlorine (bleach) is hard to figure out what you're paying as it comes in different strengths and bottle sizes. This little guy breaks it down to the cost per oz of the actual chlorine so you're doing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges to watermelons.

With the green stuff that thick it's going to be really difficult to judge the strength of the bleach if you're testing 30 minutes later. That stuff can eat a lot of chlorine is a very short period of time. I would feel safe using the 8.25% based on the ads and that they used the word "concentrated" on your label and every place else that indicates it's 8.25 but at this point you just need to be close and toss in a lot of bleach to keep it at your 16ppm level. Once it's more stable we can try to reverse engineer it's potency

That is some nasty green ...... stuff. With it that thick it's going to suck up chlorine pretty fast at first. Remember with SLAM the "M" is maintain. You don't want to let it come down too far from the shock level and you can always go a little higher. Life gets in the way so you can't always be testing but if your SLAM level is 16ppm you can always do the addition to hit 18ppm and then try to catch it as it hits or before it hits 14ppm. Letting it drop too far lets the algae start to come back to life and will add time and $$$ to your SLAM. What you should see is that in a day or two you're adding less bleach less often to stay around that 16ppm level. Then light green, hazy green, kinda of blue and then you'll be able to see the bottom !!
BUT, at the beginning it just seems to take forever and you need to stick with it and the results will make you happy.

 

[JFB]

I don't think you guys can get the TF100.

Casey. I just get it shipped to the border and pick it up in the USofA. You're right though, that kit can't be shipped across the border unfortunately.

I wonder if I did a massive order for let's say 100 Canadians and picked it up myself and then shipped it to all the Canadians who had ordered it through me, would I be doing something illegal?