Newbie needs assist on Input/Output Actuators

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FoothillTom

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Jun 22, 2016
27
Livermore
Hi everybody, newbie here. Mature pool built in the 90's. Owned this house/pool for just about 2 years now. We have a "pool guy" and I've been blissfully ignorant of my equipment...until now! Stuff started breaking and I decided to get my head in the game. Trying very hard to scale this learning curve and I need some help.

Ultimately, I need assistance understanding if my automatic valve actuators are properly "synchronized" and operating as they should in filter mode based on my description to follow. Apologies for some back-story:

All was well until about a week ago. PCB board went "butts up" quite suddenly after being in "spa mode" and while trying to figure how to get the board repaired, days were going by. To avoid a green pool (it's getting warm here), I did the interesting "work-arounds" to bypass the broken PCB and get the filter pump running. When the pump ran, it was obvious that the built-in spa was draining pretty fast.

<Insert disclaimer that I've never understood the proper position of the Valve actuators. And when the board died, they may have been in some strange position, probably "spa mode", whatever that means. All I do know is the toggles were set to #2 position>

Upon seeing the spa drain, I set the actuator toggles to "off" and manually turned the valves willy-nilly until I had stopped the spa from draining. Since there was no power to the actuators and I had no idea what the "proper" position was, I feel like I just scrambled everything, but at least I was filtering the pool and stopped the spa from draining.

Fast forward and (BP Engineering is great, by the way) got my PCB fixed, returned, and installed. Now that everything is up and running, but I have no idea how if my valves are in crazy-land after my manual changes and whether I need to "synchronize" them somehow.

Last piece of background: there are exactly two pipes coming into my inlet valve. I assume one is pool, the other spa (but I would love to know if I'm wrong).

Now, my set of stupid questions:


  1. Since we have a built-in spa, is it correct to say the inlet valve switches between the pool drain (skimmer and drain combined) and the spa drain? In other words, only one side or the other should be open at any time (and not both)?
  2. Moreover, if I have the inlet valve even partially opening the "spa side", then I'm draining the spa, yes?
  3. Assuming I'm in "pool mode" and filtering the pool, should the valve only be set to (what I believe is) the pool side, or does the programming of the PCB somehow slide that valve from pool to spa?
  4. And conversely, while in "pool mode", should by RETURN valve be set to just the pool side, or does the programming somehow slide that valve from pool to spa?

Sorry if this is all so helter-skelter. It's hard explaining stuff when you're just coming up to speed. I'll end with this:

I've installed the board, powered everything up, and am noting the valves moving when I toggle them from position 1 to 2, and vice-versa. The thing is, I just don't know where the valves SHOULD be positioned in either mode. Apparently, watching the spa drain is the only signal that I have it wrong while in pool mode. :)

Thanks for your patience and wisdom.
Tom in Livermore
 
Tom,

Where is Charles Manson when you need him??? :p

Most pool automation systems have three basic modes...

Pool Mode... The "Intake" valve (automated valve right before the pump) is set to so that the pump can suck water from the Skimmer/Main Drain. The pump then pushes the water through the filter and then through automated "Return" valve and back to the Pool returns or eyeballs..

Spa Mode... The "Intake" valve (automated valve right before the pump) is set to so that the pump can suck water from the Spa Drain. The pump then pushes the water through the filter and then through automated "Return" valve and back to the Spa jets or eyeballs..

Spillover Mode... The "Intake" valve (automated valve right before the pump) is set to so that the pump can suck water from the Skimmer/Main Drain. The pump then pushes the water through the filter and then through automated "Return" valve and back to the Spa jet or eyeballs.. (This causes the Spa to spillover into the pool.) (You may or may not have this mode...)

All you need to do is identify the "Intake" and "Return" valves and put the automation into the Pool mode. Ensure the valves are positioned correctly for the Pool Mode per the above info. If not, then all you need to do is move the little toggle switch on the back side of the valve until the valve moves where you want it... The switch is ON - OFF -ON... So moving the switch from one ON position to the other ON position will move the valve 180 degrees...

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
Tom,

All you need to do is identify the "Intake" and "Return" valves and put the automation into the Pool mode. Ensure the valves are positioned correctly for the Pool Mode per the above info. If not, then all you need to do is move the little toggle switch on the back side of the valve until the valve moves where you want it... The switch is ON - OFF -ON... So moving the switch from one ON position to the other ON position will move the valve 180 degrees...

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

Hey Jim, thanks so much for responding. I hope you'll forgive some follow-up questions.

Is there ever a case where the valve would want to be in a "partially open to both sides" configuration, where for example, water would be suctioned from both the spa and pool? Or are those things mutually exclusive?

I guess I'm wondering how the water in the spa gets "filtered" during a normal filter cycle. Does the control board somehow decide to put the valves into "spa mode" during the filter cycle? I've never looked to see how it all works when the pumps are going, but I imagine the spa water has to be filtered as well, yes? It's not clear how that would happen if there is no water being drained from the spa whilst in pool mode.

And I don't think I quite followed your instructions above if the valves "aren't in the proper position". I realize I can click the toggle switch to make the valve turn one way or the other, but don't I have to leave the valve in one of the "on" positions in order to have the automation work? I guess I'm not sure how moving the valves in that way is actual doing any "adjusting". Won't they just go back to whatever position the cams are set to? Sorry for being dense.

And finally, is there any significance to the two "on" positions? In other words, is it convention that the valve be left in "On 1" in order to let the PCB control the function of it? Is "On 2" literally just a 180 degree difference from "On 1" or is there something more to that. I swear I just don't seem to get this simple concept. I downloaded all the Jandy documentation I could find and it just doesn't seem to speak to me. Probably because I'm just not understanding the core concept. :(

I swear I will get this one day. I hope you can be patient while that day comes. :)
 
Tom,

Automated valves normally move 180 degrees... All the way one way or all the way the other way.. You can internally adjust them to move less than 180, but at this point that is not something I would suggest. The little toggle just "adjusts" the position of the valve to match which mode your automation "thinks" the valve is in. There is no feedback to the automation, it does not actually know where the valve is, it just assumes where it is... By moving the switch, you match the valve to where the automation assumes it is.

Does your spa spillover into the pool? A couple of pictures of your equipment pad would be a great help...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Hey Jim, your words are starting to sink in over here. I really do believe I was "over-thinking" the purpose/capability of these valves. When you said the PCB isn't aware of the valve position, that cause things to fall into place.

But to answer your question: YES, our spa "spills over" to the pool. I took this picture of the equipment the other day, and maybe it will help bring context to this and what will surely be more questions down the line. Let me know if it's helpful.

As far as "modes' of operation, I'll get a picture of my control panel next, but I'm 100% certain there is a "Pool" mode, "Spa" mode, "Spa Fill" mode, and "Spa Drain" mode available on the outside control box. The inside Aqualink RS8 panel does NOT have the Fill/Drain modes on the panel, for whatever that is worth.

I am very grateful for your help here, you've already advanced my knowledge.
Tom
 
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Tom,

Based upon your photo it appears you have it down pretty good...

In your picture, right above your Inflow arrow is a small pipe with a blue/white ball valve... I suspect that is a "make up" line to your Spa.. with the ball valve open (like in the picture) the spa will get some water even in when in the pool mode.. This should make the Spa spillover run all the time. If you shut off the make up valve the spillover should stop. Try it and see what happens..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Ahhh...Ok, I was wondering about that one. So that essentially means that the spa will get "some return" to it even when in Pool mode (unless that manual blue valve is closed). I think that explains (prior to all the failed equipment) why the water level of the spa would come up and over the tile (spilling into the pool) when in filter mode.

With that in mind, is that expected/normal design? Is there some practical purpose for water going into the spa at all times? Does that speak to my question about how the spa water gets filtered under normal day-to-day operation?

And thanks for the compliment about the photo...this pool thing has been consuming me for the past several days and this forum has given me the motivation to roll up my sleeves and try to understand this. For two years, I've just been a "user" of this old pool and I've learned nothing. Now that everything is breaking, it's nice to know I don't just have to call "a pool guy".

Thanks, Jim.
Tom
 
Tom,

In the "old" days before automation, if you did not have the water from the make up valve, the spa would quickly turn into a green pit... You either had to have a make up valve or you manully had to turn a valve each day... not something most people remember to do...

It is different with automation, but pool builders are creatures of habit so they just keep adding the make up line... With automation you can just schedule your spa to run the spillover once or twice a day for half an hour to an hour... this keeps the spa water fresh and you don't need to constantly run your spillover.

Constantly running your waterfall and/or spillover will cause your pH to go up through the roof.. In fact, when we want to increase pH, we run water features for the aeration they cause.. The aeration increase the pH of your pool water..

A faulty check valve in the make up line is the number on reason that a Spa will drain back into the pool when the pump is off...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
View attachment 75769View attachment 75770Hi again. A couple more photos if that's helpful. One is of the Spa/Pool "spill over" and the other is a close-up of the outside panel (Aqualink RS8). Darn, somehow exceeded my upload size. How does one remove old attachments to make space...

Armed with all my new knowledge, I went out just now to get the pool operating after yesterday's refurbished board install. I put both the Inflow and Return Actuators in "mode 1" and saw good news and bad news:

* Good news: The Return Actuator happily went to "pool" side and stopped
* Bad news: The Inflow Actuator just spun in slow, lazy circles and never stopped (this can't be good)

Toggling to "mode 2", the Return Actuator went 180 and stopped, while the Inflow just reversed direction but spun non-stop.

Since I'm only now just waking up to how this all works, I can't say that it's been working like this for a long time, or just recently. I did have to take the lid off of the suspect actuator yesterday to verify how to wire up the Return Actuator (whose wires had been ripped out some time ago by the P.O.). I was also manually turning the valves on both as I was doing my "trial and error" experiments leading up to all this.

So, I guess in short: it can't be good that the Inflow actuator is spinning while in automation mode. I will start researching how to remedy that, but any thoughts in the meantime are much appreciated.
 
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