So, should I keep adding bleach until my bromine is 10ppm??? How much should I add each time and how long should I wait in between testing?
Newbie at a total loss!
- Thread starter SpaMedic21
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OK, soooo....
I checked my water just a minute ago and my bromine is 10ppm.... the water is a not so cloudy but still cloudy... my alkalinity is still high and pH just a touch high.
I ended up closing my brominator down to 1 hole but closed it half way so only half the hole is visible....
Now, what next? How long does it take for the bromine level to drop so it is safe to take a plunge?
Should I do another pH decreaser treatment to help the pH and alkalinity?
Oh and the smell of the spa is oh so enticing... the fishy smell actually has gone away!!! And now it smells like a spa from in the spa store!!! So exciting...!!!
Im just still concerned about the water being cloudy and kinda a yellowish tinge which could be because of the well water but we used Leisure Time Metal Gon when we filled?
I checked my water just a minute ago and my bromine is 10ppm.... the water is a not so cloudy but still cloudy... my alkalinity is still high and pH just a touch high.
I ended up closing my brominator down to 1 hole but closed it half way so only half the hole is visible....
Now, what next? How long does it take for the bromine level to drop so it is safe to take a plunge?
Should I do another pH decreaser treatment to help the pH and alkalinity?
Oh and the smell of the spa is oh so enticing... the fishy smell actually has gone away!!! And now it smells like a spa from in the spa store!!! So exciting...!!!
Im just still concerned about the water being cloudy and kinda a yellowish tinge which could be because of the well water but we used Leisure Time Metal Gon when we filled?
I would shock it again and see if the water clears. Fishy smell was indicative of something in your water that was consuming the bromine. BTW, you did put sodium bromide in first, didn't you? 1/2 oz per 100 gallons.
To shock bring the bromine level above 10 ppm and run the spa with the cover off until the bromine drops below 10 ppm. You can use the spa as soon as the bromine is under 10 ppm. You want to maintain the bromine between 4-6 ppm so don't put the floater in until the bromine is below 10 ppm and adjust it to keep the bromne between 4-6. This will take a bit of trial and error over the next few weeks but once you find it you are golden. IF your bromine drops MUCH below 4 ppm just shock to bring it back up.
To shock bring the bromine level above 10 ppm and run the spa with the cover off until the bromine drops below 10 ppm. You can use the spa as soon as the bromine is under 10 ppm. You want to maintain the bromine between 4-6 ppm so don't put the floater in until the bromine is below 10 ppm and adjust it to keep the bromne between 4-6. This will take a bit of trial and error over the next few weeks but once you find it you are golden. IF your bromine drops MUCH below 4 ppm just shock to bring it back up.
Yes, I did use sodium bromine in it first then the tablets....
Anyways today I was really frustrated with the water so I took a sample to the spa store. Everything was in decent range except my pH was 8.0 and my calcium was 130ppm. Other than that everything is good.
We ended up getting into a discussion about what I am using to shock the water and I mentioned bleach and they bout flipped a gasket. Anyways, my hubby and I got tutored on spa chemicals and what not, and we were given free samples of powdered shock with potassium monosulfate... something along that line... to use instead of the bleach.
Well I did two treatments of the shock today and my water is nice and clear and the smell disappeared. I think for now I am going to stick with the store chemicals and once I get more into the hot tub lifestyle will one day try the BBB method. The guy was telling me that most the bleaches out there have salt bases and the bleach has been screwing with my alkalinity and not allowing it to activate my bromine to burn off the organics.
I tell ya what those, I am sticking to the Leisure Time line of products for now....
Anyways today I was really frustrated with the water so I took a sample to the spa store. Everything was in decent range except my pH was 8.0 and my calcium was 130ppm. Other than that everything is good.
We ended up getting into a discussion about what I am using to shock the water and I mentioned bleach and they bout flipped a gasket. Anyways, my hubby and I got tutored on spa chemicals and what not, and we were given free samples of powdered shock with potassium monosulfate... something along that line... to use instead of the bleach.
Well I did two treatments of the shock today and my water is nice and clear and the smell disappeared. I think for now I am going to stick with the store chemicals and once I get more into the hot tub lifestyle will one day try the BBB method. The guy was telling me that most the bleaches out there have salt bases and the bleach has been screwing with my alkalinity and not allowing it to activate my bromine to burn off the organics.
I tell ya what those, I am sticking to the Leisure Time line of products for now....
I forgot to ask...
How do you know when your bromine is below 10ppm... I take it you have to test or is there a certain time frame that you can usually just call it good and jump on in???
And bromine kills viruses, bacteria, algae?
How do you know when your bromine is below 10ppm... I take it you have to test or is there a certain time frame that you can usually just call it good and jump on in???
And bromine kills viruses, bacteria, algae?
You have been "Pool Stored"! That means you have been given a line of BS that helps increase the store's profit margins. As far as it goes I work in a pool/spa supply as well as doing commercial pool/spa maintenance in the summer. There is no real advantage to using MPS over chlorine for shocking a bromine spa. Both oxidize the bromide into hypobromous acid and MPS can cause a pH drop and skin irritation in many people. It is also a high profit margin for most supply stores. (Most stores HATE us to use bleach because they don't sell bleach. Even those stores that sell liquid chlorine, which is exactly the same thing, will tell you bleach is bad! Totally nonsensical!) Another secret on MPS. It's made by Dupont under the name of Oxone. Doesn't matter whose you buy. It's all Dupont Oxone. They hold the patents and make the stuff. Everyone else just repackages it!SpaMedic21 said:Yes, I did use sodium bromine in it first then the tablets....
Anyways today I was really frustrated with the water so I took a sample to the spa store. Everything was in decent range except my pH was 8.0 and my calcium was 130ppm. Other than that everything is good.
We ended up getting into a discussion about what I am using to shock the water and I mentioned bleach and they bout flipped a gasket. Anyways, my hubby and I got tutored on spa chemicals and what not, and we were given free samples of powdered shock with potassium monosulfate... something along that line... to use instead of the bleach.
Well I did two treatments of the shock today and my water is nice and clear and the smell disappeared. I think for now I am going to stick with the store chemicals and once I get more into the hot tub lifestyle will one day try the BBB method. The guy was telling me that most the bleaches out there have salt bases and the bleach has been screwing with my alkalinity and not allowing it to activate my bromine to burn off the organics.
I tell ya what those, I am sticking to the Leisure Time line of products for now....
Leisure time is a decent brand. So is Proteam, Robarb, HTH, and many others! Stay away from the alkalinity increaser, it's just very expensive baking soda!
The reason it took a few shock treatments for your water to clear is most likely there were organics and algae in your water (you said it was yellow and smelled--those are the symptoms) and those would consume the available bromine. I told you previously to keep shocking. It really would not have mattered if you used bleach or MPS, you would have gotten the same result.
What the guy told you about bleach is totally untrue and he doesn't understand a bit about the chemistry of bromine. Sodium Hypochlorite does NOT affect alkalinity (which is the amont of bicarbonate ions in the water!) and salt is innocuous in a spa. There are salt water chlorine and bromine generators on the market for spas and if either sodium or chloride ions (in much, much higher concentrations than you can get from using sodium hypochlorite, aka bleach or liquid chlorine) were a problem then they would not be successful in sanitizing! They are VERY successful, but expensive to install.
As far as 'activating the bromine' this means oxidizing the sodium bromide (a salt!) to hypobromous acid (bromine sanitizer). the bromide ions don't care if the oxidizer is MPS, Chlorine, Ozone. All do the same thing!. The only difference is what is left of the oxidizer, with chlorine being reduced to chloride ions, MPS to sulphate ions and Ozone to oxygen.
Knowledge is power. Next time just tell them you are using chlorine to oxidize the bromide. The bromine tablets contain BOTH bromine AND chlorine for this reason. Read the label and you will see!
To determine the bromine levels you need to test the water.SpaMedic21 said:
Bromine is one of the three EPA approved sanitizers. It kills viruses, bacteria and algae as long as you keep the levels between 4-6 ppm at all times.
SpaMedic21 said:
The only thing he said that is true is that bleach contains salt. Adding a little salt is harmless, add enough and it will improve the feel of the water.
Bleach has no effect on alkalinity. Bleach does activate bromine very effectively and will help it take care of any organic contamination. MPS will also active the bromine, but it normally costs much more than bleach.
I know I'm jumping in kinda late, but you may find some value in reading about what I do to treat my spa water.
I have a 320 gallon spa that is used daily by my girlfriend and me, with occasional (like maybe once a month) use by guests.
We use PristineBlue (I am sure that someone will soon tell you that it is NOT an EPA approved sanitizer), with some additions from the BBB technique, and suggestions from chem geek.
What I do upon filling my spa is first pH/TA adjust the water using baking soda and borax. I keep about 30ppM borates and about 60 TA.
At this time I add 15mL dichlor to get some CYA going, and then oxidize with it until I get about 30ppM CYA.
I then follow the PristineBlue guidelines for adding the copper and PristineClean (their copper-compatible sequesterant). In my tub, this is 15mL of each.
After each soak, I drop about 3/4 cup of bleach, just enough to oxidize the bather waste and leave less than .5 ppM chlorine after 24 hours. Once a week or so I throw in 3 tablespoons of MPS. Once a week I throw in half a cup of ScumBuster enzyme treatment from SpaDepot.
I test pH once a week and follow the PristineBlue instructions for testing copper every 14 days.
This method is not for everyone; the copper has a slower kill time that squicks some people, but you can throw in more bleach for parties. It's mostly just the two of us using the tub, and I'd take a bath with my girlfriend with no sanitizer whatsoever, so I don't care.
The things I like about it are that we wind up with no chlorine or bromine odor or skin irritation, and I don't have to worry about maintaining a bromine or chlorine level. The copper is much less volatile, so checking it every 14 days is fine.
I use so little of the product, it will probably be a year before I have to buy any. My pool store owners gave me the bottles they had left over from trying it in their own home pool, so I have spent no money on PristineBlue so far.
PristineBlue has lots of haters on here, people who had it aggressively pushed on them by pool stores, tried it in swimming pools (way different situation), and wound up in a bad way. I seem to be unusual in that it works great for me (but then I'm using it in a spa, and shocking with bleach). My mom has very sensitive skin and she loves our spa.
I have a 320 gallon spa that is used daily by my girlfriend and me, with occasional (like maybe once a month) use by guests.
We use PristineBlue (I am sure that someone will soon tell you that it is NOT an EPA approved sanitizer), with some additions from the BBB technique, and suggestions from chem geek.
What I do upon filling my spa is first pH/TA adjust the water using baking soda and borax. I keep about 30ppM borates and about 60 TA.
At this time I add 15mL dichlor to get some CYA going, and then oxidize with it until I get about 30ppM CYA.
I then follow the PristineBlue guidelines for adding the copper and PristineClean (their copper-compatible sequesterant). In my tub, this is 15mL of each.
After each soak, I drop about 3/4 cup of bleach, just enough to oxidize the bather waste and leave less than .5 ppM chlorine after 24 hours. Once a week or so I throw in 3 tablespoons of MPS. Once a week I throw in half a cup of ScumBuster enzyme treatment from SpaDepot.
I test pH once a week and follow the PristineBlue instructions for testing copper every 14 days.
This method is not for everyone; the copper has a slower kill time that squicks some people, but you can throw in more bleach for parties. It's mostly just the two of us using the tub, and I'd take a bath with my girlfriend with no sanitizer whatsoever, so I don't care.
The things I like about it are that we wind up with no chlorine or bromine odor or skin irritation, and I don't have to worry about maintaining a bromine or chlorine level. The copper is much less volatile, so checking it every 14 days is fine.
I use so little of the product, it will probably be a year before I have to buy any. My pool store owners gave me the bottles they had left over from trying it in their own home pool, so I have spent no money on PristineBlue so far.
PristineBlue has lots of haters on here, people who had it aggressively pushed on them by pool stores, tried it in swimming pools (way different situation), and wound up in a bad way. I seem to be unusual in that it works great for me (but then I'm using it in a spa, and shocking with bleach). My mom has very sensitive skin and she loves our spa.
What Erik describes is one of several "low chlorine" approaches in that the chlorine level is very low when you start to soak. A somewhat better approach would be to use silver ion (say, from N2 or other system) than copper, but using either is better than using nothing during the low chlorine period. As was pointed out, it's a low risk since the primary purpose of chlorine during the soak is to prevent person-to-person transmission, but hot tub itch bacteria forms biofilms rather quickly so you don't want the low chlorine for too long and having metal ions helps a little.
The order of sanitation is roughly as follows, but I list inappropriate "too strong" and "too weak" items in this list so don't just pick any of these:
Bleach Only >>> Dichlor then Bleach (min. all times) > Silver + Dichlor/Bleach (low during soak) > Copper + Dichlor/Bleach > Dichlor/Bleach (low during soak) > Silver + Dichlor > Copper + Dichlor > Dichlor Only (varies over weeks) >> Silver Only > Copper Only >>> Nothing
Using bleach alone is too strong and damages hot tub covers too quickly and degrades swimsuits and is harsh on skin and hair. Except for the "min. all times", all others above are "low during soak".
The key with the "low during soak" method is to use enough sanitizer or combination of sanitizer and oxidizer to not get totally consumed by the bather waste since you want the sanitizer level to still be measurable before the next soak (the more the better, up to what can be tolerated). If you let the sanitizer get to near-zero for too long prior to the soak, then bacteria have too much of an opportunity to grow. Also, enough sanitizer needs to be added after the soak to provide an excess to quickly kill off whatever bacteria are shed and grow during the soak.
Richard
The order of sanitation is roughly as follows, but I list inappropriate "too strong" and "too weak" items in this list so don't just pick any of these:
Bleach Only >>> Dichlor then Bleach (min. all times) > Silver + Dichlor/Bleach (low during soak) > Copper + Dichlor/Bleach > Dichlor/Bleach (low during soak) > Silver + Dichlor > Copper + Dichlor > Dichlor Only (varies over weeks) >> Silver Only > Copper Only >>> Nothing
Using bleach alone is too strong and damages hot tub covers too quickly and degrades swimsuits and is harsh on skin and hair. Except for the "min. all times", all others above are "low during soak".
The key with the "low during soak" method is to use enough sanitizer or combination of sanitizer and oxidizer to not get totally consumed by the bather waste since you want the sanitizer level to still be measurable before the next soak (the more the better, up to what can be tolerated). If you let the sanitizer get to near-zero for too long prior to the soak, then bacteria have too much of an opportunity to grow. Also, enough sanitizer needs to be added after the soak to provide an excess to quickly kill off whatever bacteria are shed and grow during the soak.
Richard