New to the forum... Hello and pump size question

[Novak77]

Hello all!

I’m new to the forum and to AGPs. After training on a hot tub for a year, I decided graduate and realize my dream and install a small AGP. I’m originally for the UK and now in CA so this pool is something I’ve been dreaming about for four years now since I bought a home here. Last year AGPs were sold out due to COVID, but I just bought myself a nice Saltwater 5000, 12*24 (6800 gallon) from ThePoolFactory after seeing many people on here have had good experience with them. I am obviously very excited about this!

So far I have ordered:

12’x24’x52” Saltwater 5000
30 gauge overlap liner
base mat
coving
wall padding

I’m planning on buying the Circupool RJ20plus saltwater chlorine generator, and a large , at least 150sf, cartridge filter.

However, I’m a little confused about the best pump, possibly pump filter combo to buy and was hoping to get some advice! There are a few trees and some bamboo around to I do expect there to be leaves and some redwood duff in there from time to time So I’m thinking maybe go for more circulation/skimming rather than less? would something like this 1.5hp, 2 speed with 150sf filter be overkill for a 6800 gallon pool?

https://www.eztestpools.com/hayward-150-sq-ft-x-stream-above-ground-cartridge-filter-system-1-5hp-pump-with-hoses-w3cc15093s/

Sorry if this in answered elsewhere. I looked but struggled to find anything. I did read the TFP article on pump size but it didn‘t really help me

if anyone is interested I can post pics as I go... I’m on an incline so the install will be semi-inground on one side and I plan on decking around it. The pumps and filter will be housed in a shed 4 feet from the pool.

 

[kellyfair]

Well, I just like to see pics, so please post those!

My 6,000 gallon pool did just fine with a .75 hp pump. I think I’m going for a 1 hp this time. 1.5 may be a bit of overkill for the size, but I’m no pump expert so let’s let others chime in. 2 speed is good, and really you can’t go too big with filter size, so your chosen one sounds fine.

That SWG is rated max more than 3 times higher than your pool size... you could downsize that a bit if you wanted to save some money and go 2 times higher.

 

[kellyfair]

By the way, congrats on the new pool! Pool Factory is awesome... I couldn’t believe how quickly they delivered!

 

[Novak77]

By the way, congrats on the new pool! Pool Factory is awesome... I couldn’t believe how quickly they delivered

thankyou for the response and advice!

the SWG is so big as I noticed on the following site (recommended on TFP in another thread) you can upgrade to the next size up for $10 so this is the second to smallest size:

Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

www.discountsaltpool.com

Also I have some semi-feral kids who will be using the pool so I thought the ability to go high rather than medium on the recommended range for chlorine generation may be good. However, I know nothing about this so it may just be incurring cost I don’t need.

it’s good to know a 1hp would be enough! This helps me a lot so thankyou again!

 

[kellyfair]

Ha on the semi-feral kids... aren’t they all?

 

[hwy17]

would something like this 1.5hp, 2 speed with 150sf filter be overkill for a 6800 gallon pool?

I would say so, yes.

I have an 18ft round / 7700 gal AGP with a 1HP Hayward Powerflo Matrix and consider even it to be overpowered. It will turn my pool into a giant whirlpool if I turn the return eyeball at all to the side and the bare end of the vacuum hose will try to rip your hand off. Placing the vacuum plate onto the skimmer while the pump is running is what I would describe as a violent endeavor.

You'll have the benefit of a two speed, mine is single speed, but still, I don't think over 1HP is necessary or beneficial.

This is all assuming short AGP plumbing, 6ft flex hoses for suction and return. If you're planning to have your equipment pad hard plumbed further away from the pool that's another matter.

 

[Novak77]

I would say so, yes.

I have an 18ft round / 7700 gal AGP with a 1HP Hayward Powerflo Matrix and consider even it to be overpowered. It will turn my pool into a giant whirlpool if I turn the return eyeball at all to the side and the bare end of the vacuum hose will try to rip your hand off. Placing the vacuum plate onto the skimmer while the pump is running is what I would describe as a violent endeavor.

You'll have the benefit of a two speed, mine is single speed, but still, I don't think over 1HP is necessary or beneficial.

This is all assuming short AGP plumbing, 6ft flex hoses for suction and return. If you're planning to have your equipment pad hard plumbed further away from the pool that's another matter.

Thankyou for this hwy17!

I think I’ll hard plumb it but probably only maybe a total 6-8 feet away from the pool. So I think the best bet is a 1hp two speed if I can find one.

Haha... I don’t like the sound of the violent endeavor with the vacuum plate

By the way, it seems like were probably almost Neighbours... I’m in Felton and about to drive over the hill on hwy17 in an hour!

 

[hwy17]

Very close indeed! I am in SV.

Are you planning to DIY your oval or hire it out? I put up my 18' myself and at the end of that day I would've said never again, but that feeling wears off of course.

 

[hwy17]

It seems like the problem you might be up against now is that for the xstream line it looks like they only retail the 1.5HP/150sqft W3CC15093S
They have a 1HP/150sqft CC15092STL but refer to it as "expert line" only available through pro distrobution. You might ask Appi in SC if they can get it for you.
I guess if it comes to it, a two speed 1.5HP still gives you a lower than 1HP speed for regular use, and you can save the high setting for when you want to turn the pool into a waterpark.

I should share my own experience which is that if I were buying again, I would go Pentair. Hayward equipment was a big upgrade for me from Intex/Bestway stuff to the real deal, but in my experience so far I've found Hayward to be a bit less than premier in quality. I don't have the direct experience with Pentair to be sure it's better, but it is my impression from what I read online that they are. Pentair tends to design less filter media for a given pump size in their above ground systems compared to Hayward, but I've come around to the idea that there is wisdom in that.

 

[Novak77]

Very close indeed! I am in SV.

Are you planning to DIY your oval or hire it out? I put up my 18' myself and at the end of that day I would've said never again, but that feeling wears off of course.

Nice! We lived in SV for a year of so, off granite creek. Now we’re close to Roaring Camp. Of course on a slope which will make the install more interesting

At this stage I’m probably naïve enough to try and DIY it. I’m expecting nothing about this to be too much fun! I’ll be hiring a couple of hourly guys I’ve worked with in the past for landscaping to do the heavy lifting. I need to terrace part of the yard, move a shed, and then excavate for the pool. By the time this is done I may have chickened out and get someone in for the install.

 

[Novak77]

It seems like the problem you might be up against now is that for the xstream line it looks like they only retail the 1.5HP/150sqft W3CC15093S
They have a 1HP/150sqft CC15092STL but refer to it as "expert line" only available through pro distrobution. You might ask Appi in SC if they can get it for you.
I guess if it comes to it, a two speed 1.5HP still gives you a lower than 1HP speed for regular use, and you can save the high setting for when you want to turn the pool into a waterpark.

I should share my own experience which is that if I were buying again, I would go Pentair. Hayward equipment was a big upgrade for me from Intex/Bestway stuff to the real deal, but in my experience so far I've found Hayward to be a bit less than premier in quality. I don't have the direct experience with Pentair to be sure it's better, but it is my impression from what I read online that they are. Pentair tends to design less filter media for a given pump size in their above ground systems compared to Hayward, but I've come around to the idea that there is wisdom in that.

This is a good tip... thankyou. I’m now looking for Pentair pumps and filters...

 

[hwy17]

There's too much advice on all the different steps so you'll just have to post updates as you get to them, but a standout in my mind is definitely plan to level with a transit or laser level. I went cheap and rigged up a water level and now my pool is 2" out of level across 18ft. Acceptable to me - I call it the deep and shallow end - and structurally turned out ok, but that's the main thing I'd do differently.

I've just racked Google a bit looking for a two speed 1HP Pentair Clean and Clear system but I'm reminded how hard it is to search for these things. Neither Hayward nor Pentair seem to provide a detailed listing of the exact part numbers for the packaged systems they offer.

 

[Novak77]

There's too much advice on all the different steps so you'll just have to post updates as you get to them, but a standout in my mind is definitely plan to level with a transit or laser level. I went cheap and rigged up a water level and now my pool is 2" out of level across 18ft. Acceptable to me - I call it the deep and shallow end - and structurally turned out ok, but that's the main thing I'd do differently.

I've just racked Google a bit looking for a two speed 1HP Pentair Clean and Clear system but I'm reminded how hard it is to search for these things. Neither Hayward nor Pentair seem to provide a detailed listing of the exact part numbers for the packaged systems they offer.

I’m seeing what you mean on the lack of info. After a few hours I think I can piece together a 150sf filter and a two speed, 1hp pump with vertical discharge as follows (a little more than I thought it would cost but not too much):

Pentair OptiFlo 1HP Above Ground 2-Speed Pool Pump with 3' Cord 115V | 347990

Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for Pentair OptiFlo 1HP Above Ground 2-Speed Pool Pump with 3' Cord 115V | 347990

www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

https://www.propools.com/product/pentair-clean-and-clear-rp-cartridge-filter150-sq-ft160355/58014?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&utm_term=%7Bquery%7D

that’s a good tip also on the laser leveling. I think I know a guy I can borrow one from when the time comes.

 

[magiteck]

I’m seeing what you mean on the lack of info. After a few hours I think I can piece together a 150sf filter and a two speed, 1hp pump with vertical discharge as follows (a little more than I thought it would cost but not too much):

Pentair OptiFlo 1HP Above Ground 2-Speed Pool Pump with 3' Cord 115V | 347990

Pool Supply Unlimited has some of the best prices when shopping for Pentair OptiFlo 1HP Above Ground 2-Speed Pool Pump with 3' Cord 115V | 347990

www.poolsupplyunlimited.com

https://www.propools.com/product/pentair-clean-and-clear-rp-cartridge-filter150-sq-ft160355/58014?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&utm_term=%7Bquery%7D

that’s a good tip also on the laser leveling. I think I know a guy I can borrow one from when the time comes.

That filter (and most cartridge filters I’ve seen) appears to have the input near the bottom. A horizontal discharge pump is a more natural connection. If you do get the vertical discharge pump you’ll just have some extra bends in your plumbing.

 

[hwy17]

Depends how much you value the molded base and preconfigured union connector.

I found this part number for a two speed kit that once existed, but it seems like everything's in flux with the federal efficiency mandate this year and it's discontinued. You'd think this is the one they would actually be continuing since it's multi speed compliant.

PNEC0090OF2160​

 

[Novak77]

That filter (and most cartridge filters I’ve seen) appears to have the input near the bottom. A horizontal discharge pump is a more natural connection. If you do get the vertical discharge pump you’ll just have some extra bends in your plumbing.

Ah. I could very easily be wrong here and have misunderstood the connections... I was thinking on the Clean and Clear RP line, the input was on the side, in the middle of the unit so vertical would be the easiest connection. However, if this is actually the output ...

Clean & Clear® RP Cartridge Pool Filter

The Clean & Clear RP filter optimizes flow for greater energy efficiency with an innovative side entry design. Find out more info and where to buy here!

www.pentair.com

I also saw this (which is not even connected to this specific filter, but is a filter with two connection: one on the bottom and one in the middle) which led me to assume (yes I know) that the inout would be in the middle:

CircuPool RJ-20 PLUS Saltwater Chlorinator | Discount Salt Pool

www.discountsaltpool.com

 

[Novak77]

Depends how much you value the molded base and preconfigured union connector.

I found this part number for a two speed kit that once existed, but it seems like everything's in flux with the federal efficiency mandate this year and it's discontinued. You'd think this is the one they would actually be continuing since it's multi speed compliant.

PNEC0090OF2160​

Yeah... I noticed a lot of products aren’t available to ship to CA right now just to add to the confusion.

I’m not valuing the base too much. I’d prefer to get a single combo solution but it doesn’t look like there is one for the pump and filter combo I want . If I’m right on the upper connection on the filter being the input, it will need some plumbing anyway!

 

[hwy17]

Hey @Novak77

Just thought I'd fill you in on my experience. After a year with a 1HP Hayward Powerflo Matrix I am going to be replacing it for 1. As a single speed pump being overpowered for long run times and 2. For being an inefficient "resistance start, induction run" type motor (which as as far as I can tell all Hayward Powerflo and Pentair Optiflo pumps are as well).

See: Understanding Pool Pump Motor Types | InTheSwim Pool Blog

I have placed an order for this 3/4HP Doheny's generic brand pump because I'm not ready to invest in a variable speed pump and it is the only capacitor start, capacitor run type pump that I can find in this price range. I believe as <1HP it is CA Title 20 exempt but I'll believe it when it actually shows up on my doorstep. Edit: They say it's shipped! Arriving on Monday.

Doheny's Energy Efficient Above Ground Pool Pump, 3/4 HP - Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast

Are you looking for Doheny's Energy Efficient Above Ground Pool Pump, 3/4 HP? Doheny's has this item in stock now. Click to see our low price.

www.doheny.com

I would still shy away from making any pump recommendations since there's so many factors and preferences involved but I'm sure all more info is helpful. I can tell you from this most recent dive into all of the options that if you are willing to deal with hardwiring the electrical, and the custom plumbing, and put up the cost, then a Pentair Superflo ~1.5hp VS would be the be all end all, Title 20 & DOE compliant, no second guesses best option.

 

[Novak77]

Hey @Novak77

Just thought I'd fill you in on my experience. After a year with a 1HP Hayward Powerflo Matrix I am going to be replacing it for 1. As a single speed pump being overpowered for long run times and 2. For being an inefficient "resistance start, induction run" type motor (which as as far as I can tell all Hayward Powerflo and Pentair Optiflo pumps are as well).

See: Understanding Pool Pump Motor Types | InTheSwim Pool Blog

I have placed an order for this 3/4HP Doheny's generic brand pump because I'm not ready to invest in a variable speed pump and it is the only capacitor start, capacitor run type pump that I can find in this price range. I believe as <1HP it is CA Title 20 exempt but I'll believe it when it actually shows up on my doorstep. Edit: They say it's shipped! Arriving on Monday.

Doheny's Energy Efficient Above Ground Pool Pump, 3/4 HP - Doheny's Pool Supplies Fast

Are you looking for Doheny's Energy Efficient Above Ground Pool Pump, 3/4 HP? Doheny's has this item in stock now. Click to see our low price.

www.doheny.com

I would still shy away from making any pump recommendations since there's so many factors and preferences involved but I'm sure all more info is helpful. I can tell you from this most recent dive into all of the options that if you are willing to deal with hardwiring the electrical, and the custom plumbing, and put up the cost, then a Pentair Superflo ~1.5hp VS would be the be all end all, Title 20 & DOE compliant, no second guesses best option.

Thank your for the link to the pump primer (pun intended). I learned a few things there. I’d already ordered the waterworks I posted about earlier so too late or I would have been looking for a capacitor start capacitor run also!

 

[hwy17]

As long as it's two speed should be fine, lower efficiency is much more tolerable when you have a low speed to run on for every day filtration.