New to TFP! Metal issues

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I checked my chlorine and have FC 1 but my CC are down to 4
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That is good news and hopefully a sign that all the chlorine is finally taking-over the other items. Now it is possible that when you increase the FC, the CCs might climb again, only trying will show us for sure. But try to SLAM? .... sure! When you do, follow these steps:
- Test/adjust pH to 7.2.
- Test your CYA and let us know what you get. It should be quite low, but it would be good to know for sure.
- Increase FC only to "10". Don't add any CYA yet to ensure the FC will now hold after a 10-minute test. It should hold much better, to at least 5-10 after 10 minutes. If for some strange reason it doesn't (which I doubt), repeat until it does.
- Once you confirm the FC holds closer to 10 after 10 minutes, increase FC to "12". If your CYA was below 30, add only enough stabilizer to get the CYA to 30.

You are now is our standard SLAM mode, with a CYA at about 30 and FC at "12". The bleach (FC) should be MUCH more predictable and hold much better. Extremely high CCs should be a thing of the past. Maintain the FC of 12 as much as you can until you pass the 3 SLAM criteria as noted on the SLAM page (link below).

Keep us posted and good luck!
 
^Lynners cya was reported twice at 50, so this is all true except slam level should be 20 if it still reads 50 ;)

Lynner, since you'd have to truck in water, give the process Texas describes your best effort first to avoid the water change in this case. If you can oxidize it enough so that you can hold chlorine at 20 for the slam, you do not need to change water (notwithstanding the metals, but we'll deal with those after you've gotten the pool to hold chlorine.)
 
Whelp...back to the partial drain idea again. Still can't hold FC. As soon as I add liquid shock, CC go through the roof.
6am FC 0 CC 2 CYA 35 (been raining & overcast last 10 days, NO SUN)
pH 7 TA 30
6:50am added 2 gal 12.5% liquid Shock
7:05am FC 2 CC 14
7:10 2 gal shock
7:25 FC 2 CC 16
7:30 2 gal
7:40 FC 2 CC high
7:45 1 gal
7:55 FC 2 CC high
8:00 1 gal
8:10 FC 3 CC 22
Added 8 gal of 12.5% liquid shock in 90 minutes. Pool is continuing to clear a little more. Could see a few small piles of leaves yesterday so my husband scooped them out. He also cleaned the filter (flushed sand with garden hose) and backwashed.
 
Wow. That is frustrating. :hammer: I don't recall, but have you already deep cleaned your sand? I wonder if there some gunk in there adding to the problem. Oh, never mind. It looks like your husband did that by flushing the sand right? I will say that ANY debris in that water will eat-up chlorine. The fact you were able to remove a "few small piles" is a big deal because that organic material is constantly breaking-down and adding to your chlorine consumption. Good catch! :goodjob:
 
Lynner, when you re-read the CYA, were the light conditions the same as when you read 50 the other two times? Normally for a correct cya reading you need to read with sun over shoulder. It can make a 15 point difference in reading.

If your CYA is actually dropping by that much, then there is a reasonable possibility that one factor in your frustrating results may be ammonia. The process you just did with the add-test-add is normally how one would oxidize that.

Since I know you don't want to drain, if you want to test for ammonia, pet stores carry cheap ammonia strips. The rule of thumb is that it takes 10 x the amount of chlorine to eradicate ammonia...more if something is still converting cya to ammonia. So if you read 8 ppm ammonia, it would take 80 ppm of FC to break it...in the kind of succession you just performed.

If ammonia is part or most of your problem holding FC, testing for it would enable you to predict how much chlorine it would take to break it down. Then you could determine cost-benefit of a water change versus sustained oxidization of it.

In your first post, I never saw reports of "0 Cya and 0 FC" - that's normally the condition that would give rise to ammonia, so this dx is not a Slam dunk.

I'm sending you the "pool owner patience" mojo and some fairy dust to conquer your naughty pool. Hang in there, whether you swap water or hammer the cc!

UPDATE:

I just reread the start of your thread and caught THIS:
FC 0 Total Chlorine 1.5 CYA 5 Copper 0 Iron 0
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from the pool store readings.

-- Having such. Low CYA reading - 5 - in hindsight would suggest your CYA did convert over the winter...not that we normally trust pool store readings.

But because they had you add the stabilizer and you were then at 50 CYA when you tested, this wasn't obvious.

I'm leaning toward the belief that you have ammonia, and that the volume will depend on how high your cya was at close. Might be worth the test strips to check...but bear in mind that either way you will still need to address metal concentration.

If you test, let us know the outcome...the 10x multiplier is a loose rule of thumb, but will gve you an idea.
 
I'm having my daughter get ammonia test strips today. There was a chart, but I can't find it now... How many ppm 1 gal of bleach raises FC. (If it is indeed ammonia).
The CYA, I check in the house in the same room (same lighting conditions)...since we haven't seen a sunny day here in almost 2 weeks.
The good news is it's a little clearer again today. That seems to be improving, the chemicals, not so much. We are giving it until Monday, then will do a water swap if it's not under control.
 
That seems to be improving, the chemicals, not so much. We are giving it until Monday, then will do a water swap if it's not under control.
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We'll be watching and hoping for the best. It's not our pool, but many of us have been there, and we're rooting for you.
 
There was a chart, but I can't find it now... How many ppm 1 gal of bleach raises FC.
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It depends on your gallons and the strength of the chlorine/bleach. Use Pool Math here: https://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html to calculate...not just if ammonia, but always for dosing ;)

If ammonia, for every 1 ppm ammonia you'd add 10 ppm...not all at once though to avoid overdosing pool. Instead just do the every 10-20 min."add-test-add amount needed back-test again" method that you did earlier in trying to break down the ccs.

With 17,000 gallons, getting to ten would be about 3 jugs of regular 8% bleach...so add 3, test, calculate how much to get back to 10 ppm, add, test.

Once the chlorine is holding better, thn start the regular slam to 16 or 20 depending on your most recent cya reading -- try to get a read in the sunlight this weekend if possible ;)

Fingers crossed ;)

I will say if the test turns up ammonia, if its 1-5 ppm, I'd be tempted to just try to break that down with 15 jugs of cheap bleach...but if its 10 or more, I might think harder on that. It really depends on hassle factor between the water change.

My hunch is that you've already broken down a good deal of it and a dedicated hour or so on the weekend might get you to the place where you can start a normal and quicker slam ;)
 
Woo hoo! Good news! My FC is FINALLY holding. I did not get the ammonia test strips. We kind of have given up since Thursday and were planning on calling for water delivery Tuesday. I bought more bleach tonight just to try it again. I have added a total of 4 gallons of 12.5% over about an hour this evening and my FC is 18 and CC 1.5. I will continue with the SLAM process!
My next concern is when can I do AA treatment to clean the iron stains. I know I have to drop my FC to do that (which I'm pretty concerned about after all this headache!). Should I do it before or after I add the salt and start the SWG?
 
Woo hoo! Good news! My FC is FINALLY holding.
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Well, that was easy.
dbtgallery.php

I'll let SW address when you should start the actual AA process. Congrats on the nice progress. :goodjob:
 

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You can follow your own path, but I found that the hth metal control from Walmart did just as good as the Jack's metal magic and the aa treatment. It was cool to watch, and I didn't try to capture any iron, but cheap sequestrant works better in my pool for the money.
 
^Lynnerph is switching to SWG soon...in her case, she's better off using Jacks Purple specifically because the sequestrant eeds to keep working n a saltwater environment and many sequestrants don't work well n the high TDS environment of salt.

That's great news, Lynner! Here's what I think best steps would be, but some depends on pics:
1. Finish slam ... So keep going now that FC is holding until you pass the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

2. If applicable or viable, maybe try direct application of AA to steps and stains using a dishwashing wand filled with 50% AA and water without dropping your FC...and add startup dose of Jacks Magic Purple

OR, if "whole pool" needs it (post a pic, that will help me) then do full AA treatment but be sure to bring the FC back up with small but frequent doses to get it to hold as soon as the stains have lifted and you added sequestrant.

3. Add salt, mix.

4. Start up swg.

5. Maintain sequestrant weekly with top ups...or keep watch for faint staining on steps as indicator to add more.

Salt will add trace amounts of iron, which is why I think its best to have the AA done first and have a full dose of sequestrant in the water before startup.
 
Swampwoman said:
^Lynnerph is switching to SWG soon...in her case, she's better off using Jacks Purple specifically because the sequestrant eeds to keep working n a saltwater environment and many sequestrants don't work well n the high TDS environment of salt.
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I know she is. I have an swg too, and in my experience, case, and opinion, I think the hth metal control works as good or better, and it's cheaper. The best price I could find on purple stuff last year was $20.20/qt. I had bought pink stuff before that for about $16/qt. The hth is $12.77/qt if you price match Walmart's website. I buy a couple bottles anytime I see it at Walmart just to make sure I don't run out at the end of the season. The others I had to order online because the local pool stores want over $20/qt for it. Maybe the purple stuff will work fine for her or she can find a better price on it than I could. Just offering an alternative that I've found I prefer.
 
I SLAM'd all day yesterday. Adding, testing, adding. Felt much better about the progress (only added 1/4 to 1/2 gallons of bleach instead of 4 at a time!) This morning my FC only dropped 2 points and my CC is 0!
My plan now is to wait until tomorrow to make sure FC drops only 1 point. Then let it get down to 4. Clean my steps with AA (not whole pool treatment), add Jack's purple, then add my salt. Wait 24 hours then start up my SWG, as long as my salt level is ok. Is there a time frame I should follow between the AA, Jack's & salt?
Thank you ALL so much for your help and patience with me. I was so frustrated but it came around! I ended up adding a total of 50 gallons of 6% bleach and 24 gallons of 12.5% liquid shock over almost 3 weeks.
 
only added 1/4 to 1/2 gallons of bleach instead of 4 at a time!) This morning my FC only dropped 2 points and my CC is 0!
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Great! That's a huge change from when you first started right? Wow.
Is there a time frame I should follow between the AA, Jack's & salt?
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Swampwoman should clarify this one for you.

Congrats on the fabulous progress and for hanging in there. :goodjob:
 
Good morning. Once you've passed the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test and allowed the FC to come down, treat the steps with the smallest amount of ascorbic acid you can (remembering that xcess AA will fight your chlorine) - eg maybe try a hollow dishwashing wand with 50% AA mixed with water, or put some in a freezer bag, poke a few holes in the bag with a fork and put that inside a sock to clean. In other words, don't just dump a pound onto the stairs ;) Rub smaller amounts of AA on til clean.

Immediately add the sequestrant after you've cleaned the steps.

Despite any instructions on the bottle, gently bring your FC up to the [fc/cya][/FC/cya] level...in my experience, it will still work...just don't overshoot as high chlorine breaks it down faster, which is why those with metals avoid slams by maintaining FC ;)

Once you've done that, I see no need to wait on the salt - be sure to mx it in well and don't let it sit anywhere when you add it. They usually say to let it mix for a day before starting up your swg.

Note that SWGs are great at maintaining an FC level, bu not at immediately raising it. Hence my suggestion to aintain your FC before adding salt and before starting up the swg for the mst trouble-free startup.

Salt CAN add iron - and 1 percent of 600 lbs is a lot of "other" so watch closely for signs of faint staining and add sequestrant accordingly. Maintain weekly. To prevent stains, test and control your ph frequently.

We've never delved into your suspected metal source since we were otherwiseoccupied...but if you suspect your well at all, consider topping up with softened water and/or adding a pre-filter to your outdoor hose, such as a 10" blue Pentek filter housing with a 1 micron reducing filter (from 25 to 1). While no filter will get soluable iron (ferrous) it will remove ferric partices and ultimately reduce the load/concentration.

Keep your ch at or above 200 ppm...this helps some get bonded and carried out by sequestrant according to Jacks ;)
 

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