New pump on a 30+ year old pool. No bond loop to pool

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danthedieselman75

danthedieselman75

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Apr 22, 2018
22
Wayne, PA
Hi all,

My old pump didn't withstand the winter so I am going to be replacing it this weekend. I currently have a 1hp Hayward pump that I will be replacing with a 1.5hp VS Pentair. My pool is probably at least 30 years old, but I don't know for sure because we have only been here for 3 years. It is concrete and doesn't have a light or metal rail or anything like that. The equipment pad is about 20 feet away from the pool. I only have a pump and filter. No heater or any other electrical equipment other than a timer.

Currently the bond wire on the old pump is tied back into the ground at the switch. The pool does not have a bond loop (I guess they didn't do that back then?).

I think that the bond wire connected to the switch is incorrect - not sure why the previous owner did it.

Can anyone tell me what I should do with the new pump? Since I have nothing to bond to, what should I do with bond lug on the new pump?

many thanks
 
Depending on the type of Pentair that you are getting you may need to upgrade your wire gage and breaker.
I myself am going through this.
I also went from a Hayward 1H Super pump to a Pentair Super flo VS 1.5 H. At first the Pool company just wired into the 15 amp GFI breaker. Every time we attempted to start the new pump the breaker tripped. Turned out I needed a 20 amp GFI breaker, so I called in an electrician.
I think that the more expensive Intelli flo or pro will work with a 15 amp breaker, but not the Superflo VS.
My pump is also 20 feet away and in a covered pool house. We did not bond the pump to the pool either. Used the breaker box ground.
 
Thanks for the response. I think my electrical should be OK, it is 12 gauge to the pad from a dedicated 15 amp breaker. The pump should be pulling no more than 5 amps, give or take, at full speed.

Currently, the breaker is not GFCI, so I am replacing that too. Hopefully mine doesn't start tripping - the start up load shouldn't exceed 15 amps for this pump.
 
A breaker is only rated to 80% of the stated size, so a 15 amp breaker will most likely trip on a load of just over 12 amps....
Hence my problem.
I hope you don't find the same thing.
Once you get the system up and running you can program the start up [prime] to run a little slower, but the trick is to get the pump started.
 
Bonding is different then grounding.

There should be a green ground wire connected internally to the pump ground and back to the CB panel.

The bonding lug should not be connected to an outlet ground. The bonding loop is not there if the case of the motor becomes energized. The ground wire accomplishes that. For further information read Bonding vs Grounding - Trouble Free Pool
 
Grounding and bonding are different. The question is how to bond an existing pool without tearing up concrete. My 50 year old pool wasn't bonded. I suspect few 50 year olds are.
My 20 year old pool is also not bonded. That one should have been but isn't.

If I try to bond it and I miss bonding a section, that could be more dangerous.
 

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Adamphotoman said:
A breaker is only rated to 80% of the stated size, so a 15 amp breaker will most likely trip on a load of just over 12 amps....
Hence my problem.
I hope you don't find the same thing.
Once you get the system up and running you can program the start up [prime] to run a little slower, but the trick is to get the pump started.
Click to expand...

This not a true statement. Breakers are rated to trip at the current they are labeled with. Breakers also have the capability to allow for motor start in-rush current and not trip so long as the current stay below a certain percentage over the breakers trip setting and only last for a short period of time. There is a lot more going on inside your average home circuit breaker than you would think.

Either way, if your pump circuit is 220v you will be fine with a 15 amp breaker and a 1.5hp VS pump (I'm assuming its a superflo VS).
If its 110v you will still be ok with the VS pump but run the risk of a trip at full speed on the pump. VS pumps are "soft start" motors they don't pull in a huge amount of current to get started like a traditional motor does.

I would recommend finding a Siemens or Pentair (Pentair puts their stickers on a Siemens breaker) branded GFCI breaker for your VS pump if it will fit in your breaker panel.

As for bonding, if there is no bonding loop on the pool than you leave the bonding connection on the pump empty. The pump is already grounded via the electrical wire feeding it power.
 
My pump is the Superflo VS - model 342001- which is the newer auto detecting model. It can run 120 or 220.
It kept tripping my Siemens GFCI 15 amp 220 [double throw] breaker. I hired an electrician and he told me about the 80%.
He switched the breaker to a 20 amp Siemens 120 volt GFI and ran heavier wire.
Then it ran.
I am not using the bonding lug on the pump.
 
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