New Pool - SE Pennsylvania

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Update....

-Excess dirt was removed over the weekend
-Pavers and coping have been delivered
-Water line tile is on site
-All the miscellaneous parts have been delivered. Lights, plumbing parts, filter, pump, skimmers, robot, etc.

Tile and coping are scheduled to be installed early this week. Plumbing and electric on friday. My landscapers are coming out the following week for the patio aND ground repair.

One issue we have run into that I need some advice on. I measured the pools shape against the spec drawing the pool builder provided. The deep end is narrower by 6-12 inches and the middle of the pool is short by a little over a foot. The PB is out of town until the middle of the week, but via email he said that there are "allowable variances" in these types of construction projects. A big concern of mine is that since this is a kidney shaped diving pool, the board will be angled toward the section of the pool missing at least a foot of distance. The PB says it's a legal pool, but I am worried about the missing distance. He is coming out when he gets back in town to review the measurements. His foreman was on site this weekend and agreed that the pool is short, and that I should get what I paid for.

I know I should have measured before gunite, but I had faith in these guys, plus I was traveling alot.

Am I wrong to be concerned? And/or is this something that I should work with the PB for a remedy? I highly doubt it's feasible to widen the pool to get it in line with the agreed specifications. But is it something that I should use as leverage for something else, upgrades???

I am pretty easy going with this type of stuff, but if I pay for something I feel it should be provided.
 
I must have missed telling you to go out with a tape measure after then dug :( I try to tell everyone to do that AND to do it again after the rebar. I am sorry I missed telling you this.

I am not sure how they can fix this. I would push to get what you paid for and then some. Ask them how they would fix it and let us know what they say so we can pick it apart.

Kim
 
I think I read about a similar situation in a thread recently. The depth was off by 2" at one part of the pool. I think he ended up getting like $800 credited. You contracted for a certain size. I don't think "allowable variances" apply here and I would definitely see what remedy he is willing to make.


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Well the PB has been out of town for some personal reasons. He had Merlin covers come out to measure the safety cover we are getting later this summer. The PB said we would use their exact measurements to see if we are off on the size of the pool.

Here is my breakdown of the measurements. Of course the width at the center isn't shown on the cover measurements.

· Deep end width shows short by 2-9 inches, depending on which measurement you cross reference from the spec drawing. The PB foreman measured it as short by at least 3 inches.
· Center width shows short by about 21 inches. I got this by using the scale at the bottom of the merlin drawing.
· Shallow end width shows wider by 2-4 inches, depending on which measurement you take off the merlin drawing
· Length shows short by 4-16 inches, depending on which measurement you take off the merlin drawing

Here is what the shape should be, from his specification template.


Here is the cover company's measurement.


Am I wrong with my measurements? It doesn't take a math wizard to see that the curve on the right side of the pool is flatter than it should be.

I emailed the PB these numbers and he said he is in the field today and hasn't had a chance to "compare/contrast". He said he is going back to Merlin to get the exact width at the center of the pool (where I am measuring 21 inches short).

This kind of stuff just drives me nuts. I shouldn't have to double check their work. I am wrong to feel like we are being cheated here?

Anyways, the coping/tile/pump/filter/plumbing has been installed and the project is currently in the hands of the landscapers to work on the retaining wall, patio, firepit, drain systems, and low voltage lighting.









 
You shouldn't have to check their work. Another homeowner on here ended up with a credit since his pool was smaller by 2" than it should have been. Maybe somebody else will remember which thread I'm talking about?


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So sorry for your size discrepancies.

I have no particular basis for my thought here other than general experience over the years. With the clear exception of your middle width measurement difference, the other differences, which I interpret from the drawings and intent of the noted distances, as 2" on the other widths and 4" on the length, are both under 1% variance from plan, which I'd say is an acceptable variance.

The middle width variance, which I didn't pull out a ruler on, so I'm going with your calculation, is a gross (or unacceptable) deviation from plan. That one would be the basis for my negotiation if it were my pool.

Next question is if you would be happy with ANY amount of monetary allowance. Then, is a cut out and replace of the 'under-curved' side something you'd be comfortable being done if sufficient quality of construction techniques could be achieved. Obviously a hassle, but done right, would seem at least somewhat possible and not sacrificing to much long term. Pool rebuilds do this exact thing.

Going for the rebuild would seem the best way to maximize the monetary credit, versus just going straight for the credit.

It sounds like you are maintaining a cool head which is very helpful here.
 
Update.

PB admits in an email that the pool is smaller than the original plans specified.

He writes "If I account for normal tolerances and all the factors involved in the construction of this pool specifically I'm still comfortable saying both that I'm happy with the product and its size, at the same time I'd like for it to be a little larger."

I could care less about what he feels is comfortable in terms of the size. Last time I checked, I am the customer paying for it and we agreed upon a certain size/shape pool.

In researching online, I found the standards for gunite pool construction tolerances. They are, “5.1.1 Construction tolerances. There shall be construction tolerances allowed on dimensional designs. The overall length, width and depth shall be limited to a tolerance of plus or minus 3 inches (± 7.6 cm). All other dimensions shall be limited to a tolerance of plus or minus 2 inches (± 5.1 cm), unless otherwise specified.”

He ends his long winded email on how great he is in saying he is applying a $500 credit to the final invoice. "Your satisfaction is more important than anything to us". PUKE!!!

I am trying to let myself calm down some before I draft a reply. I have zero desire in a ripout/rebuild, but I do have a monetary number in my head that would let me settle this issue. I just feel like size shortages in 3 of the 4 main measurements is worth more than $500.

Ryan
 
If you know the total price of just your pool, maybe you can divide that out and get a sq ft price, then figure the square footage you are shorted and multiply that by the sq ft price you were charged.
 
Nursenini said:
If you know the total price of just your pool, maybe you can divide that out and get a sq ft price, then figure the square footage you are shorted and multiply that by the sq ft price you were charged.
Click to expand...

I actually thought about that. I was pressing the PB to get the square footage from the cover company so that I could figure out how much I was shorted. Of course their system "does not compute areas", and since the pool is an irregular shape I have no way of doing it myself.

Ryan
 
rccarps2 said:
I actually thought about that. I was pressing the PB to get the square footage from the cover company so that I could figure out how much I was shorted. Of course their system "does not compute areas", and since the pool is an irregular shape I have no way of doing it myself.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Your contract didn't include a square footage or area number?

Maybe you could do it with the gallon figure?
 

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twinkiesmommy2009 said:
Your contract didn't include a square footage or area number?

Maybe you could do it with the gallon figure?
Click to expand...

The contract states 750 sq/ft pool. Its the exact specification drawing (1st picture) that I posted above. The contract didn't state anything about total gallons.

We basically picked a shape from their various designs, then decided whether to make it a diving pool or not. Nothing was ever mentioned about gallons.

Ryan
 
rccarps2 said:
The contract states 750 sq/ft pool. Its the exact specification drawing (1st picture) that I posted above. The contract didn't state anything about total gallons.

We basically picked a shape from their various designs, then decided whether to make it a diving pool or not. Nothing was ever mentioned about gallons.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Can you use the 750 sq ft number and see what you get?
 
A local (small) engineering firm would probably calculate the square footage fairly cheaply for you. If you call them and ask what you are trying to accomplish they will tell you the cost up front to measure it for you.
 
Hmm. Couldn't you model the pool in one of the design programs (Pool Studio, etc) and have it calculate the sqft for you?

When I mess around with my trial version of Realtime Landscaping Architect (it does pool modeling), it has a Calculate button that will give me sqft, perimeter, and volume of any pool I make, including freeforms. Not sure how exact it is, but when I compared my model's sqft calculations to my PB's quotes it was very similar.

And yeah, size of the pool maters a lot, being off a few feet could easily add to $1,000+

Oh and since you're doing a diving board pool, that's even worse! Make sure the pool is still measuring within the diving standards and fits the dive envelope!
 
Here's a quick and dirty model I did in my trial program with the drawing overlay from the pool cover measurements, you may want to get it double checked:

Possible_Calc.jpg


It calculates 665 sq ft

(ignore the volume calc, I didn't know your depth profile)



And here, I overlayed a Type 3 Dive envelope (based on diving standards here: http://srsmith.com/media/47241/06-052ansi-standard.pdf):

Type3_Dive.jpg


Hope this helps! Please don't take it as fact, try and find additional verification. Good luck!
 
RC, are you going to be okay with the pool if you get the appropriate $$? Or are you going to look at it and always think "I wish it was bigger or more like the original."? I know a redo would be a huge pain, but if it's going to bother you every time you see it.... Just something to consider.
 
My negotiation tactic is to not go in at first with what you want. He started low, you should start high, then meet in the middle. That makes both of you feel 'good' as it were.
 
Thanks everyone for advice. Also thank you ellsian for the drawings you provided. They really are eye opening. I spoke to the PB this morning about some other issues, and he is convinced the pool is only about 25-30 sq/ft short. How he comes up with that number on a free form pool without a survey is beyond me. I personally think he is just making that up to try and make me feel like its not off by that much.

I agree with Mam262, I think finding a small local surveyor to give me exact measurements may be the best option.

Marlahoutex, my wife and I do like the look and overall shape of the pool. So I don't think we would be looking at it years from now wondering why we didn't do more to make it right. For us, this is more of getting what is paid for and agreed upon. Also we need to make sure the pool is legally a diving pool.

I have a few surveyors I will try calling later today to get a price quote to provide simple dimension/area drawing.

Other than that, we are proceeding along with the landscaping portion of the project. The PB doesn't really have much more to do other than electric, plaster, water fill and startup. I should have plenty of time to get a surveyor in and drawing done before the PB needs to be back on site.

Again, thanks everyone for your replies.

Ryan
 

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