New Pool - Salt Startup and Spillover

[rd783]

Pool builder wants to charge $400 to do the initial salt startup, but I'd rather do it myself..

Thanks to TFP I've gotten balancing everything under control for the most part using LC, but now that 30 days has passed for the plaster curing, I am allowed to add salt.

Pool is 16k, haven't tested the salt level yet. I purchased 10 bags of pool salt.

I have the hayward omilogic, but everything is branded blue haven, so not exactly sure what model or make my swg is? pretty sure it's a rebranded hayward

I understand I should dissolve the salt and let it mix for 24 hours before turning on the SWG, but I'm unsure what to do after that.

Do I run it on a schedule or leave it running 24/7? Also not sure what % to set it to? (My pump runs 24/7, 90% during the day, 70% overnight)

I also know I need my CYA around 70/80, I think right now it's around 40, I will be doing another reading of it today before I add more stabilizer

 

[Bperry]

Pool company wants to charge $400 to do the initial salt starup, but I'd rather do it myself..

Thanks to TFP I've gotten balancing everything under control for the most part using LC, but now that 30 days has passed for the plaster curing, I am allowed to add salt.

Pool is 16k, haven't tested the salt level yet. I purchased 10 bags of pool salt.

I have the hayward omilogic, but everything is branded blue haven, so not exactly sure what model or make my swg is? pretty sure it's a rebranded hayward

I understand I should dissolve the salt and let it mix for 24 hours before turning on the SWG, but I'm unsure what to do after that.

Do I run it on a schedule or leave it running 24/7? Also not sure what % to set it to? (My pump runs 24/7, 90% during the day, 70% overnight)

I also know I need my CYA around 70/80, I think right now it's around 40, I will be doing another reading of it today before I add more stabilizer

All those are things you have to figure out. Test the salt level in the water first before adding so you dont overshoot the target. (Even though its a new fill, there may be some from acid and chlorine added)

Ideally the limp runs at the slowest possible speed that still skims the water acceptably. Theres no need to run it at 90% power unless you have a water feature that requires it. Youll save a lot of money running it slower.

Id also go slow adding stabilizer. There nothing wrong with CYA-40. See how its working and then increase if needed.

 

[rd783]

We have 2 bubblers and the spa overflows into the pool
Pool company set it to 90/70

 

[HermanTX]

It is best to raise your CYA because a SWCG puts just a little FC in the water at a time so a higher CYA will help protect it better. Remember that a SWCG is best to maintain a level of FC and you should use liquid chlorine to increase FC to your target level.
Also, always test for salt using a proper salt test kit and do not rely on the reading of the SWCG to know the real level of salt in the pool. Always test for salt levels before adding salt.

A SWCG produces FC so long as the pump is running and it is at the minimum speed to activate the flow switch. Running a pump faster does not produce more FC. So it would be best to lower the pump speed for normal pool operation. Only increase pump speed to run a water feature or a heater or for more skimming action.

Are you running your spillover and bubbler all the time? If so that is pushing the pH higher so you will need to monitor pH and add muriatic acid as needed.

Do you use the
PoolMath app? It is very helpful for setting a SWCG and tracking your pool chemical levels.

 

[rd783]

Remember that a SWCG is best to maintain a level of FC and you should use liquid chlorine to increase FC to your target level.

Are you saying that I’ll still need to use LC weekly even though the swg is running?


And yes I’m needing to add around 20oz of acid a day, I have a spa spillover and 2 bubblers
I have a gas heater for spa
And I have a heater chiller for pool but haven’t had to use that yet

 

[proavia]

The bubblers and spa spillover aerate the water and increase pH rise.
With acid additions, allow your TA to get to 60. This will help slow pH rise.

Turn off the bubblers and the constant spillover.
You should be able to set your automation to run spillover mode twice daily for about 15 minutes each time to keep the spa chlorinated.

You don't need to add liquid chlorine once you get the SWG dialed in- as long as the SWG can keep up with FC demand.
You may wish to add liquid chlorine before a party to bump the chlorine up. And then again after to get FC back to high end of the target range for your CYA.
FC/CYA Levels

 

[rd783]

Not sure if I can set the bubblers to automate, they said I would need something extra?
I do know that the one that says "water features" is only for the bubblers, does not effect the spa overflow
Also not sure about turning spa overflow off, I know when it goes into spa mode it stops overflowing, but also the pool stops getting filtered water coming out of the jets

Also just tested, my CYA is at 40 and salt is 800

 

[proavia]

You only need to run the bubblers for a few minutes a couple times a week to keep fresh water in the bubbler plumbing. If needed, do it manually. You can possible automate that at a later date by adding a valve actuator to the valve on the "water feature" line.

The valve marked "return spa" is the spa makeup line. This valve can be set to stop all flow to the "return spa" line and the spa overflow controlled via the automation "spillway" mode. Spillway mode will move the (already automated) "spa return" valve (notice that there is a difference between the "spa return" and "return spa" valves).

 

[rd783]

I apologize, I’m trying really hard to understand what you’re saying. I don’t see anything mentioning spillway in my OmniLogic app. Attaching a couple screen shots of the “spa” screen as well as the “spa day” theme they set up for us.
What would I adjust in these screens to turn the spillway off?

(Side note, now that I’m looking at this screen what is chlorinator and why is it on for the spa?)

 

[HermanTX]

Currently your spillover is controlled by a manual valve - the one labeled “return spa”. If you move it clockwise where it is is inline with the pipe then the flow to the spa (and spillover) will stop. You have to loosen that little nut on top, then rotate the handle so that the word “closed” is aligned with the pipe saying “return spa”.

If you want to automate spillover using your automation, that will be a different process.
I am not familiar with the Hayward Automation but there will be a setting or a dipswitch that may need to be activated to enable automated spillover.
What will happen is that the valve with the actuator on it - near the pipe that says “spa return” will be able to rotate to open flow to the spa but the actuator on the valve near the pump suction will NOT move. So it will create a circulation path of suction from pool, flow to the spa and then spillover to the pool.

 

[rd783]

Okay so I've read almost every thread I can find on spillover and I think I figured out what's going on

1. I have Omnilogic and the builder only set up spa mode and pool mode. However, (tell me if I'm right,) during pool mode, the return spa is opened slightly which is causing the current spillover that runs 24/7 (unless is spa mode)

2. I was able to go into the omnilogic config wizard, found the option for spa spillover, and selected "Yes". I now see an option under pool for spillover. Spillover currently says it's off, but I assume this is because the return spa like I said above is opened slightly.

3. Note, the current spillover comes over and down and hits the tile, not enough to hit the water directly. When I turn the actual spillover "On" I hear the pump rev up and a ton of water starts spilling over hitting the water directly.

So I guess my questions are

a. Do I completely close the return spa handle to stop the spillover in pool mode?

b. assuming I do a., I would then setup a pool theme with spillover on and then set that to a schedule 2x a day? (how long do I run it, and at what pump speed?)

c. when running spillover mode I am just curious as to the inflow and outflow of water, does it go straight from the pool into the spa? or does it still go from the pool, through the filters/heaters, into the spa?

d. one more question, what is the exact difference between spa return and return spa?

 

[HermanTX]

1. I have Omnilogic and the builder only set up spa mode and pool mode. However, (tell me if I'm right,) during pool mode, the return spa is opened slightly which is causing the current spillover that runs 24/7 (unless is spa mode)

Yes that is correct and the “return spa” valve is manually adjusted.

2. I was able to go into the omnilogic config wizard, found the option for spa spillover, and selected "Yes". I now see an option under pool for spillover. Spillover currently says it's off, but I assume this is because the return spa like I said above is opened slightly.

It is shown off because you have not pressed the button. When you press the button for spa spillover, the “automated valve” between Spa and Pool return pipes will move.

a. Do I completely close the return spa handle to stop the spillover in pool mode?

Yes the “return spa” is a manual valve and must be turned off to stop the spillover while in pool mode

b. assuming I do a., I would then setup a pool theme with spillover on and then set that to a schedule 2x a day? (how long do I run it, and at what pump speed?)

Yes. 30 mins per schedule will be fine for spillover. You can set pump speed to whatever level depending how fast you want the water to spillover. If a trickle is fine then a slow speed is set.

c. when running spillover mode I am just curious as to the inflow and outflow of water, does it go straight from the pool into the spa? or does it still go from the pool, through the filters/heaters, into the spa?

When you go from pool mode to spillover mode, only 1 valve - the one marked “spa return” moves. The circulation path is pool suction to the pump, through the filter, heater, etc and to the spa, then spillover back to the pool to complete the loop.

d. one more question, what is the exact difference between spa return and return spa?

This is just what your service tech named the 2 valves. The circulation path as explained above is identical however the current set up is manual and it is on 24/7 unless you turn the manual valve off. In spillover mode, it can be automated using the pool/spa automated valve and set a schedule in your automation.

Note - in your manual control of the spillover, both the pool and the spa are receiving water so that has circulation to both bodies.
In the automated control of the spillover, only the spa will have direct return from the system, i.e. there is no return through the pool return jets. The pool only receives the water from the seal spillover. Which is fine as it is only 2x a day for 30 mins each.

 

[rd783]

Thank you so much @HermanTX ! Really appreciate your answers for every single item Today I will try setting this up!

Just thought of this -
e. does running the spillover for 1 hour a day really save the pH from rising that much versus just having the spillover gently spillover 24/7? Seems they would equal out?


One more thing I'm trying to think through for the SWG -

Do I run it on a schedule or leave it running 24/7? Also not sure what % to set it to? (My pump runs 24/7, 90% during the day, 70% overnight)

My understanding is

1. that the SWG should only run when the pump is running

2. running the pump faster for the SWG does not generate more chlorine (is this really true? running the pump at 5% and 100% will generate the same chlorine amount?)

3. Given I have a SWG, should I aim to run the pump lower, say maybe 30% 24/7 and generate chlorine constantly, or should I begin with a target of running the pump 4hrs a day and only generating chlorine 4 hours a day?

 

[HermanTX]

Just thought of this -
e. does running the spillover for 1 hour a day really save the pH from rising that much versus just having the spillover gently spillover 24/7? Seems they would equal out?

I can’t predict that. There are too many variables. We know that aeration will increase pH. How much aeration is in the gentle spillover vs the 1 hour?

1. that the SWG should only run when the pump is running

Yes. The SWCG must be told by its flow sensor that there is flow then it enables it to create chlorine.
A SWCG powered on without flow (for example the flow sensor malfunctioned) then gas can build up inside and explode. This is why we recommend 2 safety features. One is that the SWCG is powered on only when the pump is powered on and 2nd is that the flow switch monitors if there is flow to then activate the SWCG to produce chlorine.

2. running the pump faster for the SWG does not generate more chlorine (is this really true? running the pump at 5% and 100% will generate the same chlorine amount?)

This is correct. Therefore it is recommended to run the pump at the lowest speed that still activates the flow switch (referenced in #1 above).

3. Given I have a SWG, should I aim to run the pump lower, say maybe 30% 24/7 and generate chlorine constantly, or should I begin with a target of running the pump 4hrs a day and only generating chlorine 4 hours a day?

Each plumbing setup is different and pump. We tend to talk in terms of RPM (not percent output). Some members are able to activated their SWCG at 1200 rpm. I need to run at 1500rpm to activate mine.
There are 2 factors that contribute to how much chlorine a SWCG creates. It is pump run time (how long the SWCG is activated) and % output setting of the SWCG. For example - a pump running 24 hrs with SWCG set at 40% is the same as a pump running 12 hrs and SWCG set at 80%.
Do you have the PoolMath app? There is a feature in it that allows you set your pool volume, your specific SWCG and you can play around with the different settings. In the summer, most people target a chlorine production of 3-5ppm per day to offset the loss of chlorine to UV and bather load. Your average loss per day could be higher or lower.

 

[rd783]

Good news, got the spill over scheduled and working! For now running at 70% (I don't know the equivalent RPMs..but that looked the best)

Thanks for the info on the SWCG, esp the safety stuff. I'll have to read up on past forum posts to learn about this more.

Thanks for the tip using the TFP app, I subscribed to it last week and have been logging everything since.

1. Only issue is, I can't figure out what salt cell I have so not sure what model to choose in the app. The builder never gave me any manual for it.

2. How can I determine RPM's for the pump based on the % it's running?

 

[mknauss]

Your SWCG is equivalent to a Hayward T15.

 

[HermanTX]

Your chlorinator diagnostics says it is a CELLS340. I found that to be Hayward brand with an output of 1.45lbs per day. See attached. That is all that is needed to set parameters in PM app.

 

[rd783]

I just started up my SWG for the first time. Does this all look okay?
(I added another bag of salt so should eventually climb up to around 3200ppm)

 

[rd783]

Also, I am going to be away from the pool for 4 days soon, and probably won’t have enough time to dial in the SWG to trust my FC levels while gone

Also been constantly having to add acid daily to keep pH below 8.2

What would the recommendation be while I’m gone?

Should I use pucks as Ive read they have dry acid in them and can also keep my FC up while I’m away (my CYA is at 40 and I need to begin increasing it anyway to 70/80)

How many would I need to add to a floater before I leave? I have 2 3” tabs on hand, HTH brand around 93.6% Cl 3.5% zinc 2.9% other

 

[Bperry]

Also, I am going to be away from the pool for 4 days soon, and probably won’t have enough time to dial in the SWG to trust my FC levels while gone

Also been constantly having to add acid daily to keep pH below 8.2

What would the recommendation be while I’m gone?

Should I use pucks as Ive read they have dry acid in them and can also keep my FC up while I’m away (my CYA is at 40 and I need to begin increasing it anyway to 70/80)

How many would I need to add to a floater before I leave? I have 2 3” tabs on hand, HTH brand around 93.6% Cl 3.5% zinc 2.9% other

Are you sure thats whats in the tabs? Trichlor tabs are the only thing you should use and Ive never seen zinc as an ingredient.