New pool owner

[Justgo]

Hello,

I have a 20 year old home in Rhineland Germany. Indoor and in ground vinyl pool in walkout basement. Dehumidifier adjacent to pool-not sure of specs. Using one multi tab about every two weeks in a sunken treasure dispenser attached to a traditional chlorine float (suspended halfway in water and pool itself) under a pool cover. Option to ventilate room by windows and doors only. I clean with a battery charged vacuum.

The previous owner informed me
He threw a multi tab in once a week and everything was good. I was skeptical of this approach after reading about CYA. I had difficulty locating liquid chlorine for the pool in my region and admittedly became overwhelmed with other new homeowner things.

I’ve been following the old homeowners approach since I moved in in March and have had no visible problems. I imagine science will catch up soon and I feel lucky to have found this site.

1. The weather is getting colder and wetter. Im trying to decide if I should be airing out the pool room 24/7 with the doors cracked at the top or spot airing it daily. (There is no active ventilation system)

2. I prefer not to heat the pool and I was reading that you typically want to keep the pool 2 degrees lower than the room air to keep the water in the pool and not in the air. Can I leave the pool as cold as it gets e.g. have a significant gap in pool and room temperature as long as the pool is colder?

3. I do backwash, drain and refill the pool every couple of months. More so, for CYA piece of mind. The pool is clean as a whistle so I feel like a more frequent schedule is a waste of water. Mostly, my question is going to be since this is an indoor pool how rigorous do I need to be with testing ( I am not testing) and May you point me in the right direction to obtain what I need?

Is there an option to chlorinate with household bleach?

Thank you!

 

[Mdragger88]

Welcome to TFP
To answer some of your questions
1 & 2 - not sure about that, hopefully some indoor peeps will chime in on best practices there.
I do know that cc’s ( combined chloromines) will build up in an indoor situation so ventilation is definitely important from an air quality perspective. You mentioned windows, if the pool gets any uv light that will help with cc’s building up in the water. Elevated cc’s in the water irritate skin & eyes.
For #3:
You may be ok with cya because of your draining ritual but until you test the water with an accurate kit you will have no idea. Getting a proper test kit so you know where you stand is your 1st step here.
See Test Kits Compared
&
Pool Test Kits - Further Reading
To obtain a proper kit pronto.
The tabs are a bad idea for daily chlorination for various reasons.
They add things like cya & possibly copper that build up in the water - the fc gets consumed but those remain. They are also acidic so they can make it hard to maintain recommended levels

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

One tablet every week or two is very unlikely to be providing adequate amounts of fc even in a very small pool. Your pool consumes free chlorine every day, whether you use it or not.
Clear water doesn’t necessarily equal sanitary water. Otherwise there would only be boil water notices when the water looked bad.
You can absolutely use household bleach for daily chlorination if you are having a hard time obtaining dedicated liquid chlorine for pools.
You just need to be certain it is unadulterated-
No splashless
No scents
No Cloromax technology
No fabric conditioners etc.
Just plain, ole bleach- generics are usually your best bet for this.
Household bleach is generally a lower concentration than dedicated pool liquid chlorine so you just need to use more to have the same effect (the % should be listed on the bottle)
PoolMath will help you calculate dosages.
A cya of 20- 30ppm is recommended for indoor pools to moderate the harshness of adequate fc levels on people & equipment.
Always follow the FC/CYA Levels
The fc should never be below 2ppm even if there is no cya lest nasties will grow .
Person to person transmission of pathogens is definitely not something you want happening in your pool.

Here’s all the important info in one link

Pool Care Basics

 

[Justgo]

Welcome to TFP
To answer some of your questions
1 & 2 - not sure about that, hopefully some indoor peeps will chime in on best practices there.
I do know that cc’s ( combined chloromines) will build up in an indoor situation so ventilation is definitely important from an air quality perspective. You mentioned windows, if the pool gets any uv light that will help with cc’s building up in the water. Elevated cc’s in the water irritate skin & eyes.
For #3:
You may be ok with cya because of your draining ritual but until you test the water with an accurate kit you will have no idea. Getting a proper test kit so you know where you stand is your 1st step here.
See Test Kits Compared
&
Pool Test Kits - Further Reading
To obtain a proper kit pronto.
The tabs are a bad idea for daily chlorination for various reasons.
They add things like cya & possibly copper that build up in the water - the fc gets consumed but those remain. They are also acidic so they can make it hard to maintain recommended levels

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

One tablet every week or two is very unlikely to be providing adequate amounts of fc even in a very small pool. Your pool consumes free chlorine every day, whether you use it or not.
Clear water doesn’t necessarily equal sanitary water. Otherwise there would only be boil water notices when the water looked bad.
You can absolutely use household bleach for daily chlorination if you are having a hard time obtaining dedicated liquid chlorine for pools.
You just need to be certain it is unadulterated-
No splashless
No scents
No Cloromax technology
No fabric conditioners etc.
Just plain, ole bleach- generics are usually your best bet for this.
Household bleach is generally a lower concentration than dedicated pool liquid chlorine so you just need to use more to have the same effect (the % should be listed on the bottle)
PoolMath will help you calculate dosages.
A cya of 20- 30ppm is recommended for indoor pools to moderate the harshness of adequate fc levels on people & equipment.
Always follow the FC/CYA Levels
The fc should never be below 2ppm even if there is no cya lest nasties will grow .
Person to person transmission of pathogens is definitely not something you want happening in your pool.

Here’s all the important info in one link

Pool Care Basics

I was not able to find unadulterated bleach. I did find an online site I can order pool bleach from in bulk. After reading the back of it it appears to have clarifier and stabilizer (With 1% caustic soda, therefore absolutely free of cyanuric acid). Not sure what the clarifier

25 kg BAYZID® Chlor 13% flüssig für Pools

Flüssigchlor im 25-kg-Kanister zur effektiven Desinfektion von Schwimmbädern Nicht umsonst vertrauen regionale private und öffentliche Schwimmbäder auf die Qualität des BAYZID Flüssigchlors. Durch den Einsatz von Flüssigchlor...

hoefer-shop.de

It can be viewed on Google chrome for translation purposes.

Would this suffice? Seems to be the cleanest option I can find.

Currently waiting for my tfpro kit in the mail.

Thanks!

 

[Mdragger88]

That looks sufficient - I don’t speak german but it does say for pools so I’m sure it’s fine.
With any liquid chlorine you want to be sure it’s fresh- in America we have julian dates printed on the bottles, not sure how it is there.

Chlorine Date Code Decoder - Further Reading

www.google.com

Also unsure of the exchange rate/price but in general it’s often more cost effective to get it locally. Pool stores, hardware stores or even pressure washing & janitorial suppliers are a good place to look for high concentration unadulterated sodium hypochlorite. Getting it locally also helps you ensure freshness. Many places do refillable jugs with deposit- similar to the one in the link.

 

[Justgo]

That looks sufficient - I don’t speak german but it does say for pools so I’m sure it’s fine.
With any liquid chlorine you want to be sure it’s fresh- in America we have julian dates printed on the bottles, not sure how it is there.

Chlorine Date Code Decoder - Further Reading

www.google.com

Also unsure of the exchange rate/price but in general it’s often more cost effective to get it locally. Pool stores, hardware stores or even pressure washing & janitorial suppliers are a good place to look for high concentration unadulterated sodium hypochlorite. Getting it locally also helps you ensure freshness. Many places do refillable jugs with deposit- similar to the one in the link.

Thank you for the advice, I was unable to locate the chlorine in any of the hardware stores, a Reddit user turned me onto the online shop.

I received my kit today and haven’t touched the water for over a week after the last multitab expired over a week ago.

I’ll attach my numbers, though I could not add periods (.) to my log additions. So I will add that my PH was 7.2, my FC was 2.5 and the combined chloramines were 0.5.

When performing the CYA test is it until the dot completely disappears which occurred at 30? or when it turns grey-I don’t know when that happened exactly..

If all numbers are correct what are my next steps?

Thanks!

 

[Mdragger88]

In poolmath here’s the .

Also turn on combined tracking in the settings so it will let you log cc’s

Today, You will want to dose to the high fc target for your cya with liquid chlorine (which is 6ppm for your cya of 30) FC/CYA Levels
then test every day for a while to see where you stand & before fc gets near minimum
Dose with liquid chlorine back to the high target . It is safe for equipment, surfaces, & swimmers (if you can see the bottom of the pool) with fc anywhere between minimum & slam level for your cya (2-12ppm).
With regular testing you will get a feel for how much fc your pool uses daily based on conditions such as temperature & bather loads.
Once you have an idea you will be able to test less frequently (every few days) so long as you know you won’t dip below minimum before your next dose.

Your other numbers look good
You didn’t list ch so get that test done & record the result.
It’s not something that changes really quickly so long as you’re not adding any calcium containing products or high ch fill water monthly testing of ch is generally sufficient.
With a vinyl pool it is generally a “do not add situation” but we need to clarify if you currently have a heater - if so anywhere between 200- 500ppm CH is ideal otherwise being lower is fine but going much higher can lead to scale.

You want to Test cya monthly as well.
You can use a puck here & there to keep cya around 30ppm just be aware of the acidic effects on ph. Use poolmath effects of adding in the hamburger menu to see how each puck effects your water.

Your ph is a dab low but still acceptable, no need to add anything- pointing jets upwards where they break the water or doing a little splashing will probably have that at mid 7’s in no time.

Your ta is fine.

The basics are:
Priority #1 - test fc & cc daily until you learn your pool
ALWAYS keep fc above minimum for your cya lest nasties will grow
Priority #2 - test ph every day until you learn your pool & keep ph in the 7’s
You may find it doesn’t really change much & a weekly check may be enough.
Priority #3 - test TA if you need to adjust PH as it is imperative to acid calculations
Otherwise TA, CH, & Cya can be checked monthly unless something is used that may change them or water is exchanged.

Synopsis: follow the FC/CYA Levels
& recommended levels What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?
& you’ll be golden

 

[duraleigh]

Currently waiting for my tfpro kit in the mail.

TFTestkits does not ship internationally.

 

[Justgo]

In poolmath here’s the .
View attachment 460979
Also turn on combined tracking in the settings so it will let you log cc’s
View attachment 460980
Today, You will want to dose to the high fc target for your cya with liquid chlorine (which is 6ppm for your cya of 30) FC/CYA Levels
then test every day for a while to see where you stand & before fc gets near minimum
Dose with liquid chlorine back to the high target . It is safe for equipment, surfaces, & swimmers (if you can see the bottom of the pool) with fc anywhere between minimum & slam level for your cya (2-12ppm).
With regular testing you will get a feel for how much fc your pool uses daily based on conditions such as temperature & bather loads.
Once you have an idea you will be able to test less frequently (every few days) so long as you know you won’t dip below minimum before your next dose.

Your other numbers look good
You didn’t list ch so get that test done & record the result.
It’s not something that changes really quickly so long as you’re not adding any calcium containing products or high ch fill water monthly testing of ch is generally sufficient.
With a vinyl pool it is generally a “do not add situation” but we need to clarify if you currently have a heater - if so anywhere between 200- 500ppm CH is ideal otherwise being lower is fine but going much higher can lead to scale.

You want to Test cya monthly as well.
You can use a puck here & there to keep cya around 30ppm just be aware of the acidic effects on ph. Use poolmath effects of adding in the hamburger menu to see how each puck effects your water.

Your ph is a dab low but still acceptable, no need to add anything- pointing jets upwards where they break the water or doing a little splashing will probably have that at mid 7’s in no time.

Your ta is fine.

The basics are:
Priority #1 - test fc & cc daily until you learn your pool
ALWAYS keep fc above minimum for your cya lest nasties will grow
Priority #2 - test ph every day until you learn your pool & keep ph in the 7’s
You may find it doesn’t really change much & a weekly check may be enough.
Priority #3 - test TA if you need to adjust PH as it is imperative to acid calculations
Otherwise TA, CH, & Cya can be checked monthly unless something is used that may change them or water is exchanged.

Synopsis: follow the FC/CYA Levels
& recommended levels What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?
& you’ll be golden

Appreciate the informative response. I was shocked (no pun) how close my numbers were by throwing in a tab and backwashing.

My period is a comma and it doesn’t register as a period in the app. I’ll have to plug it into my other non IPhone later to see if it’s a phone issue.

According to my pool math app it says I’ll be adding 23 oz at a 14% bleach strength. The strength is somewhere between 13 and 15% so I wasn’t sure which one to go with, but I imagine 14% is close enough.

Should I be concerned with the 0.5 chloramine level or is bringing the FC to 6 addressing the issue?

I keep my pool cold, so I haven’t used the heater. I’m guessing scale still matters. I’ll show my newness and attach pictures, because I’m not quite sure what my heating system is or if the oil boiler does most of the heating and the rest is fed by circulators.

Do I leave the Bubble cover off during this process?

Thanks!

 

[Justgo]

Update***

I can add a period to the app by copying it from a browser.

Added 3 cups of chlorine. The chlorine smell was strong, displaying my current vent method.

Tested several hours later.

FC 5.5
CC 0.5
PH 7.2
CH 275

If I do look to increase my PH later what am I looking to use? I have soda ash and a bag of powder borax (not sure this would work based on what I’m browsing int the forum) ?

 

[Mdragger88]

All those numbers look great
Leave the bubble cover off a while during the daytime so the cc’s can escape & the sun can take care of them.
If cc’s go above 1 you can do the SLAM Process to eliminate them but the sun & adequate fc will likely remedy the situation.
Your ph shouldn’t go any lower so long as you don’t add anything acidic like - Muriatic or dry acid, tabs, or cya.
Anything you add to increase/decrease ph will also increase/decrease TA as they are “married” chemically.
If you want to increase ph a dab & it is still in the 7’s aeration is the answer. This will have no effect on TA.
Point your jets up so they disturb the surface of the water.

 

[Mdragger88]

After you have done your homework (removing the cover & turning the jets up if you like) please take the time to fill out your signature in detail as best you can - it helps get your questions answered more appropriately to your situation. Include that you have an indoor pool with a solar cover as well.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.google.com

 

[Justgo]

After you have done your homework (removing the cover & turning the jets up if you like) please take the time to fill out your signature in detail as best you can - it helps get your questions answered more appropriately to your situation. Include that you have an indoor pool with a solar cover as well.

Create Your Signature - Further Reading

www.google.com

Given that my pool is indoors and I vacuum with an external / pole attached vacuum, is it better to not backwash my sand filter until the pressure requires it ( have never seen the pressure change)? Or should I perform backwashing routinely? I want to avoid messing with the balance of CYA etc.

I currently use a skimmer sock (which catches debris well and does not impeded flow). Safe to continue using this?

 

[duraleigh]

Backwash ONLY when you need to. The rule we use is to "backwash when your psi exceeds 25% of normal". If you never get there, I would remove the filter top to deep clean and inspect once every two years.

What is your current psi? Does the gauge go to zero when the pump is off?

 

[Mdragger88]

What @duraleigh said & the skimmer sock is fine.

 

[Justgo]

Backwash ONLY when you need to. The rule we use is to "backwash when your psi exceeds 25% of normal". If you never get there, I would remove the filter top to deep clean and inspect once every two years.

What is your current psi? Does the gauge go to zero when the pump is off?

Yes, the gauge goes to zero when off

 

[Justgo]

What @duraleigh said & the skimmer sock is fine.

Given that my pool is about 32 cubic meters, my pump runs at 12 cubic meters an hour, my pipes are 2 inches, and it’s indoors- how long do I run the pump for?

I appreciate all of the help you guys have provided

 

[Mdragger88]

Determine Pump Run Time

To figure out how many hours you need to run your pump, you need to know how fast your pump works. You can find this here.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[duraleigh]

how long do I run the pump for?

The most accurate answer is to run the pump long enough to keep your pool clean.

Set a time that YOU think is adequate (maybe 4 hours for an indoor pool) and then judge the results by observation.

If your pool is too dirty for your liking, boost the run time until it stays clean. Don't worry about a specific formula but rather judge by your results.