New Pool Owner: Questions

Ok, so I wore my mad chemist glasses and performed my first test with the Tayor kit. CH is off the charts.

FC = 1
PH = 7.8
TA = 160
CYA = >100 (kit did not have levels to measure above 100)
CH = 975 (pool guy was not kidding when he said our pool water is very hard; he said pool was never drained by previous owners, and he recommends draining it this summer, at which point we should also replaster it)
Tap water CH = 275

The high CYA might be caused by the 3" tabs that have been used till now.

What do you guys think?
 
You have a bit of a learning curve ahead of you, but it all falls into place fairly quickly and becomes a simple routine before you know it. You can get a ballpark level for CYA by doing a diluted test. See point #9 in: Pool School - CYA

CH at 975 ppm is manageable with other adjustments. But more importantly, the high CYA needs to be reduced, so a partial drain and refill is a good recommendation.

Depending on how sensitive you are to costs, you might want to learn your water cost and best timing for doing that. A call to your water company should help you answer that. Utilities in some places determine sewer charges for the upcoming year based on water use in winter, assuming you're not watering plants during winter. You could also get a quote for reverse osmosis which runs your water through a machine that removes CH and CYA from the water. This process also consumes water, but less than a partial drain/refill if good equipment is used. It might be more expensive than simply buying the water and paying any quota penalties.

There are experts here that might be able to comment on the plaster, but they'll likely want to see pictures and hear a description of how the plaster feels to you.

Your water is capable of depositing hard calcium scale on the plaster right now, so if it was my pool, I'd be using muriatic acid to lower the pH to 7.4 and try to hold it there while you're deciding how and when to proceed. The lower pH will offset the effect of the high TA and CH, and reduce or eliminate the risk of calcium scale forming on the pool surfaces. The cold water is helping right now, but as it warms the risk increases, and the risk is already high.

Cold water is also helping prevent algae, but 1 ppm FC is seriously too low. If it was mine, I'd raise FC to 10 ppm as soon as possible. Judging by the picture, two 1-gallon jugs of bleach would not be out of line in your pool (8.25% sodium hypochlorite, not splashless, not scented). But before you do that, and this is the only time we'll suggest a pool store, take a water sample and ask them to test for iron and copper and let us know what you find out. Taking a bottle to each of two pool stores is even better. If iron and copper are zero, you can add the bleach right away. Don't buy any chemicals they try to talk you into while you're there. With it being winter, you might need as little as a quart of bleach every few days to hold your FC up.

A signature on your posts will really help you get the best possible advice here. Click the link 'read before posting' in my signature to see the instructions for setting this up. Just put in whatever you know and you can update it as you learn the pool.
 
Hello! Congratulations on your new home and pool! I just wanted to chime in here real quick. Some have already directly answered your questions, but I did want to add some detail to a few. Firstly, you aren't living dangerously as long as you remember to take care of it! I can tell you from experience that the #1 reason people hire a service is because they feel that they do not have time to take care of their pool. There are a variety of other valid reasons, but if you have the time and energy to take care of it on your own, then by all means, try it out! Some of us enjoy it.

Anyway, here goes:

You do not need to throw your tablets away, but you should use them very sparingly. Considering that your CYA is above 100, unless you were to lower that below 25, I would not suggest using them at all. Tablets can be extremely helpful depending on the circumstances, but they can also contribute to problems down the road (like the high CYA you are currently experiencing). You can use both if ever needed (such as after a bad rainstorm and you're going out of town the next day), but remember this, NEVER, EVER, mix chlorine... I would not even store them within a foot or so of each other.

I would also stay away from any copper. The ONLY time that I have ever used metal-based algaecides was in black algae infested pools (silver works fairly well there). On the rare occasion that we do it, we notify the homeowner of the potential risks of using metal algaecides and let them know what other possible alternatives there may be.

You probably will not need to be raising the pH as often as you will need to be lowering it. I do not have any information regarding the chemical you asked about, but I would recommend sticking with industry standards. Many people in the industry would be jumping all over it if it were cheaper or better in any way, and I haven't heard anything.

Their test was almost certainly referring to FC, the others are not commonly tested in the pool industry unless there is a problem. That said, why on earth did they have your FC at 0.5 with your CYA at 100+? Not only why, but how? That is actually extremely difficult to do. The tablets alone should have been keeping it above 4ppm! I wonder if they were putting what they claimed to be putting... You may want to double check your CYA levels when you have a chance, just to be certain, because something there isn't adding up!

-Eric
 
but remember this, NEVER, EVER, mix chlorine... I would not even store them within a foot or so of each other.

Eric, When you say this ^^^what do you mean?



Their test was almost certainly referring to FC, the others are not commonly tested in the pool industry unless there is a problem. That said, why on earth did they have your FC at 0.5 with your CYA at 100+? Not only why, but how? That is actually extremely difficult to do. The tablets alone should have been keeping it above 4ppm! I wonder if they were putting what they claimed to be putting... You may want to double check your CYA levels when you have a chance, just to be certain, because something there isn't adding up!

This is where the CYA/FC chart comes in handy. My guess is his FC is being used up faster than he can add it. Something might be trying to "bloom". The high CYA is not letting his FC do it's job. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

-Eric

You did a great job getting and doing the tests. I can't wait to hear just how high your CYA is. We will get you all fixed up and your pool will look better than it ever did with the pool service and be cheaper as well!

Kim:kim:
 
Thank you, guys! I punched in my pool size and water data in the pool calculator and added 8.25% Clorox in the late afternoon and 31.25% muriatic acid this morning, both times with the pump running.

I just did a quick test for PH (7.0) one hour after the muriatic acid; I also tested FC (7). According to the pool calculator, given my water chem data and pool plaster/size, FC should be between 8-10

I'll test for CYA with the diluted method later today and report back.

Considering my tap water CH is fairly high (275), do you guys recommend a reverse osmosis filter? Or a salt/magnetic whole house water softener?

I was going to add a reverse osmosis filter under my kitchen sink, but would I benefit with a second one for the pool?
 
Eric, When you say this ^^^what do you mean?

If this is not already a sticky, it desperately needs to be one. Mixing different types of chlorine is EXTREMELY dangerous. Mixing different batches of chlorine is not even advisable. See this for more info.

This is where the CYA/FC chart comes in handy. My guess is his FC is being used up faster than he can add it. Something might be trying to "bloom". The high CYA is not letting his FC do it's job.
Indeed, this is a problem. I was more concerned with how the chlorine is that low when the CYA is that high. My test pool at home has been let go for weeks during the winter with a CYA of 80, and retained over 50% of original chlorine (8+ppm).

-Eric

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you, guys! I punched in my pool size and water data in the pool calculator and added 8.25% Clorox in the late afternoon and 31.25% muriatic acid this morning, both times with the pump running.

I just did a quick test for PH (7.0) one hour after the muriatic acid; I also tested FC (7). According to the pool calculator, given my water chem data and pool plaster/size, FC should be between 8-10

I'll test for CYA with the diluted method later today and report back.

Considering my tap water CH is fairly high (275), do you guys recommend a reverse osmosis filter? Or a salt/magnetic whole house water softener?

I was going to add a reverse osmosis filter under my kitchen sink, but would I benefit with a second one for the pool?

Hello!

I do not think that a reverse osmosis filter would benefit your pool directly unless you are willing to spend $5-10k on one, have a sizable contraption in your back yard, and have high-pressure tubes near your house. Others may want to chime in who have more experience with this, but my company was originally looking into purchasing RO equipment for this very reason (until we saw the price tag). Typical home-based RO filters run about 1-3 GPM from what I have seen (60GPH=1400GPD, not much water in terms of the size of a pool). Also keep in mind that they produce waste water, which would need to be directed away from the pool. Then there are filters etc that need to be replaced. Lots of factors here, but if someone has experience with using RO on a faucet it may be worth hearing out.

-Eric
 
I have a water softener, but I live in Florida where the tap water is notoriously very hard, whenever I backwash I adjust the CH then. Too low fill with my hard water tap, too high fill with my soft water tap. :)

Thank you, guys! I punched in my pool size and water data in the pool calculator and added 8.25% Clorox in the late afternoon and 31.25% muriatic acid this morning, both times with the pump running.

I just did a quick test for PH (7.0) one hour after the muriatic acid; I also tested FC (7). According to the pool calculator, given my water chem data and pool plaster/size, FC should be between 8-10

I'll test for CYA with the diluted method later today and report back.

Considering my tap water CH is fairly high (275), do you guys recommend a reverse osmosis filter? Or a salt/magnetic whole house water softener?

I was going to add a reverse osmosis filter under my kitchen sink, but would I benefit with a second one for the pool?
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
I have a water softener, but I live in Florida where the tap water is notoriously very hard, whenever I backwash I adjust the CH then. Too low fill with my hard water tap, too high fill with my soft water tap. :)

Is this something that is actually built into a line in your house? As I previously stated, my concern with RO has always been the fact that it can cost $10k for a proper setup to allow for filling a pool. Not to mention, if the pool ever has to be drained, it would take about 3 weeks to fill it back up with your average in-home system, and at least several days with a higher-end system. Then comes the issue with replacing filters and maintaining the system.

In the industry most guys use relatively large RO systems that can easily cost over $30k. Here is one: TR-40K Mobile Trailer Water Purification system 40,000 GPD with Diesel Genset Model TR-40K - from category Mobile Solar Water Treatment (Ampac USA )

That's probably not the best comparison, but nonetheless it certainly goes to show the cost of RO... I'm curious how this works for homeowners?

Thanks!

-Eric
 
There's no domestic RO system that is cost effective for pool maintenance. A water softener that is already installed can be helpful for pool maintenance, as described by PebblePool. The cost of installing a water softener for pool maintenance might be hard to recover against the occasional cost of drain/refill.

Let's stay focused on getting your water balanced. If water replacement cost seems extreme, then you may be able to find a company that can do reverse osmosis on site for you. A price around $500 has been mentioned around here, and usually the water replacement is cheaper. But it's worth costing out your water exchange cost first. As far as volume to replace, you'll know better after the diluted CYA test.
 
Yup...170ppm CYA is tooo high. :(

The only cure for that (along with the high CH) is water exchange. Are you folks in California still on rationing? Can you do some water exchanges such as dropping the level halfway and then re-filling. Test again and if needed, repeat the drain & refill.

Can you do this?

The other option is to hire a Reverse Osmosis company to come out and do their magic. Its sort of like dialysis for the pool, LOL. They aren't cheap, but some find the price to be worth it if their water is really expensive or they don't have the time to drain/refill themselves.

Yippee :flower:
 
Our pool guy had indeed advised us to drain the pool, replaster it (it's been 8 years since it was built), and refill with fresh water at the beginning of this year's swimming season. He said that, since our water is too hard (did not mention CYA) and pool should be replastered within a couple of years, we might as well replaster and refill this spring/summer.

What do you think caused CYA to be so high?
 
Does the pool plaster *look* in need of re-doing? If not, why bother? Having high CH isn't a reason to re-plaster.

Either the previous owner used tabs/pucks to chlorinate or he added too much CYA. Pucks/tabs contain CYA and it just adds up and adds up and WHAM! CYA too High!

CYA is necessary but we add with caution since it doesn't leave the pool water unless you do a water exchange.
 
Is the plaster chipped or physically worn, or perhaps the spa is just stained?

We can help improve stains :)

I just don't want to see you pay to have it re-plastered if it really doesn't need it. I'm frugal that way ;)

Yippee :flower: The Frugal Guide, LOL
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.