new pool owner first water test

[rd3500]

hi guys,

I recently bought a home with a pool, first time ever having a pool (las vegas area). There is a pool company from previous owner that has been servicing the pool for the last 2 months (since I bought the place).

I am here because I want to take care of the pool on my own, so I have reading this forum for a while now, bought a taylor k2006 test kit and today I tried to test the water for the first time.

I have never seen the pool guy test the water, I have a floating thing with chlorine pucks and according to the pool guy, the water was changed by the previous owner before I took possession and the pool has been treated again algae for the next 6 months. That's what the guy says.

I am attaching a picture of the pool and the floating thing.

So, here is the situation with the water if I tested it correctly (I watched a bunch of videos on how to use the test and followed the instructions inside the box).

Free chlorine 12 ppm, no combine chlorine
PH 7.8
TA 140
CYA over 100, it took not much water for the black dot to disappear to the point that the sample did not even reach the 100 mark.
Calcium Hardness: 390 (39 drops with 25 ml sample)

That's the situation.

As far as I understand, pucks are not the best source for chlorine, the free chlorine value is pretty high (ideal 4 to 6), ph slightly high (ideal 7.4 to 7.6).

CYA is high and not a good thing... CH might be ok although toward the high side of the range.

Is that correct?

Any suggestions in what to do from here are much appreciated. Thanks a lot

PS: pump stays on 8 hours a day right now.

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Well, it's unfortunate that after an apparent water exchange not too long ago, the CYA is so high it requires another. But a CYA over 100 make water care challenging. So you might consider making that your first priority before trying to adjust anything else. In fact, all of your other readings were quite good, it's just the high CYA. Also keep in mind that whenever the FC is over 10, it influences the pH and makes it appear high. Yes, without a salt water generator to create chlorine, you want to stick to just liquid chlorine or regular bleach. Remover those tabs as soon as you can.

If you have any other questions, just let us know.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[an1vrsy]

Congratulations on your home purchase. Welcome to TFP!

First thing, your CYA is very high. You really need to remove those chlorine pucks and use liquid chlorine for chlorination. Those pucks will keep raising your CYA. You’ll also need to do a diluted CYA test. Mix half pool water and half tap water, mix. Then pour off half of that mixture then fill the to the higher mark with the CYA reagent. Then multiply by 2 to see what your diluted CYA test results reveal.

 

[Oly]

You are overdue for a drain and refill.
This is the accepted system when using trichlor as your primary sanitizer for most pools.
I would suggest you mix an equal sample of your pool water with your tap water, retest your CYA then double the results to find your true CYA ppm level. FC/CYA Levels
Consider installing a SWG....salt water chlorine generator into your system after reducing your CYA to 70ppm.

 

[rd3500]

thanks for the warm welcome

I tested the CYA using half pool water and half tap water and I got 80, so I guess the total would be 160.

So... I understand I need to drain the pool, at least partially to bring down the CYA (the calculator said to replace 63% of water to bring CYA down from 160 to 60).

I research how to drain a pool here on the site and most of the time an external pump is suggested. I am attaching a picture of the plumbing to see if there is an alternative. One of the pipes says "main drain-skimmer", so I am afraid I cannot isolate the main drains to use the pool pump (my understanding).

I also notice that I have a chlorine inline feeder but I am assuming that it does not work and it would be the same problem as the pucks.

 

[Oly]

You can rent pumps and hoses at Home Depot that will make quick work of draining your pool.
Confirm that you don't have ground water issues that can cause your pool to pop out when drained.
You may also need to get local city approval and contact flood control if you discharge the water into the street or sewer system. Test your fill water for TA and CH to get an idea of what to expect when balancing your pool water after refilling.

 

[setsailsoon]

rd,

Welcome to TFP! You've come to the right place. We are volunteer staffed by experts and very experienced pool enthusiasts. We sell nothing and we help you learn TFP methods that are dirt cheap and work great. All you need to get started is a recommended test kit you can buy anywhere you want. Also ask any questions you may have. Pat and others already have you on track to fix your biggest problem with the CYA level. Once you get that done you'll be on easy street the TFP way. If you have problems with chlorine availability you can always switch to salt as many of us have. You may also want to read about a water exchange. Also, please fill out your signature. It helps our volunteers be more efficient with their time. Here's how.

Again, welcome and we're looking forward to your updates.

 

[V___25]

Welcome!
Your pool is beautiful and this place will help you keep it that way. That's a real bummer about your CYA level - definitely get those pucks out of there. For that inline chlorinator, we have one too and it's just bypassed right now. Eventually we'll cut it out of the plumbing, probably when we replace the pump. I'm not handy at all but the hubs is and says it's not hard.
Good luck on your drain/refill - post back with updates.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
Do you have a whole house water softener? Using softened water for make up water due to evaporation will stem the rise of your CH. I also recommend considering a SWCG install by next spring. It makes management of a pool in our climate so much easier. You will need to add acid on a regular basis (something the trichlor pucks are doing for you now) as your fill water is high in TA. We evaporate essentially a complete pool volume each year. To reduce that, I suggest considering a solar pool cover to be used in the spring and fall. Surprisingly, evaporation rates in March, April, May, September, and October are quite high as the water warms up due to our sunny days and then with cooler overnight temperatures evaporation rates can be quite high. A solar cover used during those times reduces evaporation substantially.

 

[rd3500]

Confirm that you don't have ground water issues that can cause your pool to pop out when drained.

I have no idea, according to the pool guy the pool was drained and refilled recently but that's all I know and I have not seen it done personally. Is there a way to check that there are no issues?

If you have problems with chlorine availability you can always switch to salt as many of us have.

yeah, I have been reading here for a while and came to the same conclusion. Pool should be 11,000 gallons, I was thinking about this one:

CircuPool EDGE-25 Salt Chlorine Generator | Discount Salt Pool

www.discountsaltpool.com

called the company and a guy name John suggested this one that is on sale right now:

CircuPool EDGE-25 Salt Chlorine Generator | Discount Salt Pool

www.discountsaltpool.com

am I on the right track?

Do you have a whole house water softener?

I do but I don't think is connected to the pool water source but I can run a hose to refill.

 

[mknauss]

You will have no issues if you drain the pool. Surface water is not something Las Vegas has.
Take a look and see what it might take to get softened water to your auto fill. Not a rush, just something to look into.
Any SWCG would best be at least 3x your pool volume. A 40k rated unit is what I would suggest.

 

[setsailsoon]

yeah, I have been reading here for a while and came to the same conclusion. Pool should be 11,000 gallons, I was thinking about this one:

CircuPool EDGE-25 Salt Chlorine Generator | Discount Salt Pool

www.discountsaltpool.com

called the company and a guy name John suggested this one that is on sale right now:

CircuPool EDGE-25 Salt Chlorine Generator | Discount Salt Pool

www.discountsaltpool.com

am I on the right track?

Yep, these are all adequate size. I went with an RJ 30 for my 12,800 gal pool and it worked great. After 3 years still on 40% power and running 6 to 12 hrs per day.

Chris

 

[an1vrsy]

RD, We live in a very dry area. I understand any hesitancy on dumping 60 percent of your water to get your CYA in line with recommendations. However, you are not struggling with an algae bloom. This is what I would do, I live here in Las Vegas and provide you with my first hand anecdotal experience.

I would do two things. First I would purchase an Apera PH60, pH tester from Amazon. The only way to accurately test pH when FC is above 10 ppm. The Taylor K-2006 kit can not accurately test pH above 10 ppm FC. You are already at 12 ppm.

Second, I would maintain the pool from now till the spring with higher FC. Remember, the FC/CYA chart gives us a manageable range of FC to CYA because CYA buffers the chlorine. I would should for absolute minimum of FC 12 ppm with a target of 14 - 16 ppm. As our swim season comes to an end and by the spring of next year through natural dissipation, your CYA will drop. As long as you only use liquid chlorine, no more pucks. Now I only say this because water is at a premium here in Las Vegas. Not in cost but because Lake Mead our source for water here is at an all time historic low.

Each month continue testing CYA and as it drops due to evaporation autofill and natural dissipation you can adjust your FC dosage down accordingly.

Now disregard all of the above if you just want to get your CYA down now. Or if the chemical experts here on TFP don't think this option will work.

 

[mknauss]

CYA does not decrease due to evaporation, but it does degrade slowly. So you can do as Brad says. You may still need to drain / refill some early next spring, but you might not. You will need a quality pH tester if you go that way.

FYI. Water you put into the CCWRD system is returned to Lake Mead after processing.

 

[rd3500]

thanks a lot

I went with an RJ 30 for my 12,800 gal pool and it worked great.

right now the RJ 30 costs $1100 (there is a promotion that for $10 I can get the next size up, so the RJ30 costs $10 more than then the RJ20). Same applies for the Universal40 that costs $1000 with that same promotion.

The only difference I can see if that the RJ has the clear cell and the universal does not, longer warranty on the RJ (7 years instead of 4) and a little more power for the universal40. I don't know what clear cell means by the way...

Compare and Review Saltwater Chlorine Generator Prices and Features | DSP

www.discountsaltpool.com

I understand any hesitancy on dumping 60 percent of your water to get your CYA in line with recommendations. However, you are not struggling with an algae bloom.

thanks a lot for the help first of all. I am not necessarily hesitant, I just was not expecting it after the pool guy told me water was changed before taking possession of the home and should last 3 to 5 years.

As far as algae, the spa is starting to have some on the bottom but it is certainly not bad (yet).

Here is my plan:

1) install a salt water system, either the RJ30 or the Universal40 (help in choosing much appreciated)

2) connect the pool water source to the water softener as @mknauss recommended

3) buy a pump to drain the pool. Then gradually drain the pool in the mornings while the pump does not run and reduce chlorine levels over time while the CYA goes down and I learn about how to properly maintain correct water chemistry

That's my understanding at least at this point, is it ok to do it this way?

 

[setsailsoon]

right now the RJ 30 costs $1100 (there is a promotion that for $10 I can get the next size up, so the RJ30 costs $10 more than then the RJ20). Same applies for the Universal40 that costs $1000 with that same promotion.

The only difference I can see if that the RJ has the clear cell and the universal does not, longer warranty on the RJ (7 years instead of 4) and a little more power for the universal40. I don't know what clear cell means by the way...

I agree the clear cell is only marginally useful. It does allow you to look in the end to see if there's any calcium buildup without removing it completely. I definitely liked the warranty because there are a number of reports about cells that fail early for virtually all manufacturers. This can be expensive to repair without warranty. The only other thing to consider is that incremental capacity up front is much cheaper than replacement cost. All this said your model selection certainly will work fine and meets TFP guidelines as well as budget realities then this would be a great decision.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[rd3500]

here is an update:

1) CYA is down to 130 now (from 160) and I am keeping FC levels above 10 with liquid chlorine bought from lowes (10%). So far so good, situation is not any worst then before when the pucks were in the water.

2) ordered pump for draining and a solar cover. Wondering if I can use the solar cover as a tarp given that I don't need to replace all the water, only about 30-40%. Pump should be here today, solar cover just got here an hour ago.

3) PH is hard to measure right now, I have a ph meter that I have not used in a while. If I calibrate it, soon after it says water is around 7.8. If I try to use the taylor test, I get over 8 which my understanding is that it is expected given the high FC. I did add some muriatic acid to lover it a bit just in case (it is 7.6 now if I can trust the meter).

That's the situation. I have been reading (and learning) a lot here on the site.

 

[Texas Splash]

All this chemistry stuff will get much easier once you are able to lower that CYA. You'll get there.

 

[rd3500]

new update. Yesterday I drained the pool 30-35% and filled it back up.

Just tested the water and this are the new values:

FC 6
PH 7.8-8
CYA 60-70
TA 150
CH 300

My understanding is that I need to lower TA and PH, so I will add muriatic acid. Reading the instructions here to lower TA, it says to lower PH to 7 - 7.2, so I guess I will add a bunch of acid over the next few days, correct?

PS: I also cleaned the filter and almost added 50 lb of DE before realizing (thanks to other members here) that the filter was not a DE filter...

 

[mknauss]

No real reason to drive the TA down quickly. Just lower the pH to 7.4 whenever it rises to 8.