New pool owner and could use some help!

[xkristen83]

Hi - We opened our pool about a month ago, and after countless trips to the pool store and $500ish spent on chemicals, we still have a cloudy, unbalanced pool. I came across this forum and order the Taylor kit (which I received today). I’m hoping you can advise me on how to get the pool balanced and the right order to do things!

About the pool…approximately 16,000 gallons, in ground, cartridge filter, SWG system (which our pool store told us to turn off due to high phosphates), currently using two chlorine pucks in the skimmer. We also have a retractable automatic cover that is always on except for when we swim (so I think we likely need less CYA since the sun exposure is not super high).

We shocked the pool about a week ago and tested the chlorine the next morning….it was around 1.0 (using a cheap Chlorox test), so I think the pool has an issue holding chlorine.

From the pool store tests, our phosphates are extremely high (around 3,000) and our metals are around .8. I’ve already put two metal clearing agents in, which is probably making my phosphate issue worse.

From the Taylor test tonight:
ph - 7.0
TA - 190
CYA - 33
FC - .8
CH - 300? The test turned purple instead of blue and the instruction manual said that’s a sign of metals in the water.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

 

[Texas Splash]

Welcome to TFP! Some quick notes and questions:
- Phosphates mean nothing if there is no algae just more money for the pool store
- What kind of Taylor test kit did you use for those numbers?
- Why the metal sequestrants? Do you have iron? On a well?
- Remove the tabs from the skimmer; they are acidic and should not go in there
- IL is notorious for a high TA, but the tabs (acidic) seem to be pulling your pH down quick low. You might consider using liquid chlorine for a while.
- If your FC test is close (depends on the kit), it's much too low. See you FC/CYA Levels to understand how the FC and CYA should be balanced together.

Let's start there and we'll give you more guidance. What we learn about your test kit will be #1 though.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

83,

You need to decide if you want to follow our instructions or the pool stores, you can't do both.. Telling you to run off the SWCG is just Bull Feathers.

The main key to the TFP pool care process is to always, always maintain your FC in relationship to your CYA level.. per this chart FC/CYA Levels

You can see that your FC is way too low...

I suspect that you have algae, but to make sure I suggest that you run an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test or OCLT.. This is how.. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

If you fail the OCLT you will need to do what we call a SLAM.. SLAM Process

I suggest the you add a gallon of Liquid Chlorine and then start the OCLT..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[xkristen83]

Welcome to TFP! Some quick notes and questions:
- Phosphates mean nothing if there is no algae just more money for the pool store
- What kind of Taylor test kit did you use for those numbers?
- Why the metal sequestrants? Do you have iron? On a well?
- Remove the tabs from the skimmer; they are acidic and should not go in there
- IL is notorious for a high TA, but the tabs (acidic) seem to be pulling your pH down quick low. You might consider using liquid chlorine for a while.
- If your FC test is close (depends on the kit), it's much too low. See you FC/CYA Levels to understand how the FC and CYA should be balanced together.

Let's start there and we'll give you more guidance. What we learn about your test kit will be #1 though.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Welcome to TFP! Some quick notes and questions:
- Phosphates mean nothing if there is no algae just more money for the pool store
- What kind of Taylor test kit did you use for those numbers?
- Why the metal sequestrants? Do you have iron? On a well?
- Remove the tabs from the skimmer; they are acidic and should not go in there
- IL is notorious for a high TA, but the tabs (acidic) seem to be pulling your pH down quick low. You might consider using liquid chlorine for a while.
- If your FC test is close (depends on the kit), it's much too low. See you FC/CYA Levels to understand how the FC and CYA should be balanced together.

Let's start there and we'll give you more guidance. What we learn about your test kit will be #1 though.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks! Answers below...
-K-2006 Test Kit
-We do have a well. We had to put a bit of water in this spring, and occasionally top off from the hose. The metals have been high since we opened the pool. Not sure if it's all from the well water, or if the algicide the pool opening person used had metals as well.
-Sent my husband to the store to get liquid chlorine tonight . Per the recommendation below, I think we're going to try to overnight chlorine loss test

Thank you again for all the help!

 

[xkristen83]

83,

You need to decide if you want to follow our instructions or the pool stores, you can't do both.. Telling you to run off the SWCG is just Bull Feathers.

The main key to the TFP pool care process is to always, always maintain your FC in relationship to your CYA level.. per this chart FC/CYA Levels

You can see that your FC is way too low...

I suspect that you have algae, but to make sure I suggest that you run an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test or OCLT.. This is how.. Overnight Chlorine Loss Test

If you fail the OCLT you will need to do what we call a SLAM.. SLAM Process

I suggest the you add a gallon of Liquid Chlorine and then start the OCLT..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks! Ha, I'm definitely over the pool store instruction, and very thankful for this forum and your help! I actually think we may have some type of algae/mold. I didn't add this above, but when we first opened the pool, the person opening it told us not to put any chlorine in until the phosphates were completely gone. Long story short...I think we got white mold (from what I found on Google). We have shocked multiple times since then to clear it, and don't see it/feel it anymore, but my guess is there's still a little bit, as I was never able to keep the chlorine levels high after the shock. I read about SLAMing the pool a few days ago, which is when I bought the Taylor test kit!

My husband is getting liquid chlorine now, and we're going to do the overnight test tonight. I assume we can add liquid chlorine to get the FC to at least 3.0, and record that number?

 

[Cwiggs]

If your CYA is 40 (rounding up from 32) you should have your FC at 5-7ppm since your SWCG is off. I would get the FC to 7ppm for the OCLT. If you do have algae you don't want it to grow anymore over night.

If you fail the OCLT you can start putting in more bleach to get start the SLAM ASAP.

 

[Texas Splash]

Good you have the K-2006 kit, but you might start thinking about additional reagents, especially if you have to do the SLAM Process to remove algae. Also keep in mind that iron gets aggravated from an elevated pH and FC level. Try to keep the pH from going over 7.5. But for FC you have to keep it balanced to avoid algae. Always kill algae first then treat the iron. Wells produce iron while algaecides can often times add copper - two totally different issues. Copper is the worst to be honest. But let us know how the OCLT goes if you did it, or if you have any other questions on how to proceed.

 

[xkristen83]

Good you have the K-2006 kit, but you might start thinking about additional reagents, especially if you have to do the SLAM Process to remove algae. Also keep in mind that iron gets aggravated from an elevated pH and FC level. Try to keep the pH from going over 7.5. But for FC you have to keep it balanced to avoid algae. Always kill algae first then treat the iron. Wells produce iron while algaecides can often times add copper - two totally different issues. Copper is the worst to be honest. But let us know how the OCLT goes if you did it, or if you have any other questions on how to proceed.

Thanks! I did the OCLT. At 10pm last night, I had 5.0 of FC, and this morning at 6:45am it was down to 1.0. So, safe to say it failed. I’m going to start SLAM today. A few quick questions: (1) generally, how many gallons of chlorine do I need? I have about ten, and going to try to pick more up today, but am having a hard time finding it. Can I start with chlorine and then switch to bleach if I can’t find more liquid chlorine? (2) We have an automatic retractable pool cover. Should I close this immediately after adding chlorine each time? Seems like it would cut down on chlorine loss from sun, but the pool guy said I need to let the pool “breathe” after shocking, so not sure what is best. (3) our ph is at 7.0. Do I need to increase this before starting SLAM? It says 7.2, but is 7.0 close enough?

 

[mknauss]

I have about ten, and going to try to pick more up today, but am having a hard time finding it.

Do you have a Menards near you? Check them as they carry 12.5% liquid chlorine at a reasonable price. I would suggest getting 10 more gallons.

Your cover can be closed some. It is best to leave it open for several hours of sunlight on the pool to eliminate CC.

A pH of 7 is perfect.

 

[Texas Splash]

 

[Cwiggs]

Can I start with chlorine and then switch to bleach if I can’t find more liquid chlorine?

That is fine. liquid chlorine and beach are the same thing, just different concentrations. If you do get bleach don't get Clorax, anything that says "splashless", no additives, you just want plain bleach.

Good luck on the SLAM, takes pics, we love to see the progress!

 

[xkristen83]

Do you have a Menards near you? Check them as they carry 12.5% liquid chlorine at a reasonable price. I would suggest getting 10 more gallons.

Your cover can be closed some. It is best to leave it open for several hours of sunlight on the pool to eliminate CC.

A pH of 7 is perfect.

Thanks! Menards had it! I started tonight. Will keep you posted!

 

[xkristen83]

That is fine. liquid chlorine and beach are the same thing, just different concentrations. If you do get bleach don't get Clorax, anything that says "splashless", no additives, you just want plain bleach.

Good luck on the SLAM, takes pics, we love to see the progress!

Thank you! Started tonight. Will keep you updated!

 

[xkristen83]

Hi All! I wanted to give you an update and maybe ask for some reassurance. This is what I’ve done so far. My CYA is in the low 30s, so I rounded up to 40, to get to a 16 for SLAM.

Saturday:
6:30pm - under 1.0 FC, added 3.0 gals of liquid chlorine @ 10% concentration
8pm - 8.5 FC, added 2.0 gal @ 10%
9:30pm - 11.5 FC, added 1.0 gal @ 10%
11pm - 8.0 FC, added 2.0 gal @ 12.5%

Sunday:
7am - 1.0 FC, added 2.0 gal @ 12.5% and 1.0 gal @10%

I know people use a lot of chlorine for SLAM, but I’m at 10 gal in about 12 hours, which just seems crazy. My pool was cloudy, but blue before I started, so we’re not talking swamp level pool. This morning it looks about the same, but a little greener (maybe because of the metals oxidizing with the chlorine?). Any thoughts/reassurance I’m doing this ok?

Also, I have a quick question about the FC test. I add the two scoops of powder, mix, then start the drops. I’ve noticed that I’ll add the drops to get the water clear, and record that number, but if I let the water sit for a minute, it starts turning back to pink. Does that mean I need more drops (ie - maybe my FC is higher than I’m recording)? It’s not dark pink….another drop or two would clear it up again, but just curious about this.

As always, thank you so much for all your help! I really appreciate being able to ask all my questions!

 

[mknauss]

Does that mean I need more drops (ie - maybe my FC is higher than I’m recording)?

No. Once the test goes to no color (clear), the test is over.

Any thoughts/reassurance I’m doing this ok?

Looks good to me. Metals have to be dealt with after the SLAM process is complete.

 

[xkristen83]

Whew...this is hard work! I started a little over 24 hours ago, and have used about 25 gallons of chlorine....and my chlorine loss still hasn't slowed down (losing about 5.0/hour). I've brushed/vacuumed/cleaned the filter. Other than overnight, I've tested and added chlorine every 1.5 to 3 hours. Just want to make sure this all sounds normal and that I should keep going? Any idea of when chlorine loss is going to slow down?

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[mknauss]

That does sound like a lot of chlorine. Are you sure there is no solid debris on the bottom of the pool?

 

[xkristen83]

That does sound like a lot of chlorine. Are you sure there is no solid debris on the bottom of the pool?

I haven't seen the bottom of the pool yet this year, but I think it's pretty clear. I've been in the pool and walked around, and found an occasional leaf, but nothing major. We also have a pretty great cover that's almost always on when we aren't swimming, so that keeps most of the stuff out.

 

[Texas Splash]

Is everything removed from the pool (i.e. ladder, steps)? Products like that can hide algae and be the source of what appears to be an otherwise clean pool.

 

[xkristen83]

Is everything removed from the pool (i.e. ladder, steps)? Products like that can hide algae and be the source of what appears to be an otherwise clean pool.

Everything is removed. No ladder/steps/etc. If anything, the pool looks worse this morning. I'll attach a few pictures below. I used to be able to see three steps, but now can barely make out the third. Topped off chlorine around 10:30 last night to get up to 16. This morning at 6:30am, FC was 1.5.

A few questions:

(1) I know that typically TFP says not to worry about phosphates, but in googling, some places say phosphates eat chlorine...I'm pretty sure we have 3,000+ phosphates. Even a high number that high shouldn't be worried about?

(2) I've attached a picture of our pump/filter/heater set up. Is there a chance that something can be going on in there? If so, how do I know/fix it? Just take everything apart and clean what I can? As you can see, our SWG is clear, and at one point early on this year, I think we had a white mold issue. At the time, you could see in the SWG that the mold was growing inside. It's cleared up now (I shocked and used chlorine tabs), but I obviously there could be some that I can't see in the pipes, etc. Just not sure how to get rid of it, or if that can be causing the issue.

(3) I have been leaving the cover open during the day, but closed it at night. Could that be causing issues?

(4) Combined chlorine has gone down since Friday night. It was around 4.0 when I did the full workup on the pool, but it's around 2.5 now. Is that typical, or should it be going down faster?

(5) My FC always drops, but never drops to zero. Even before I started SLAM, when I was getting tests done at the pool store, FC always showed around 1.0 or 1.5. Shouldn't the FC drop to zero? I had the SWG off, but tabs in the skimmer, so maybe that's why?

Thanks again for all the help!