New pool next week, whats next?

[Human]

First let me say thanks for all the help I have already gotten, but now that it is almost go time, I have more questions. I have already read "ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry" and "Pool School" but I am a little bit overloaded so I feel like I need to ask just to make sure I am understanding everything correctly. If we are lucky we might get a month or two of swimming this season, so I want to be 100% ready once it gets installed next week.


Already have
28' Doughboy Desert Spring with 54" walls, two skimmers, and a expandable liner for a deep end.
Hayward Super ll 1.5hp dual-speed pump. (Pump will be about 35' away from the pool)
Hayward S270T2 ProSeries sand filter. ( With filter glass I was ok with sand, but he offered to throw it in for free if I paid today.)
Confer curve step system

Testing kit. ( On order )
TF-100 test kit with XL option
ph meter
Standard sampler
Speedstir



What I need to figure out.

1-What chemicals do I need to start getting ahold of to open the pool now? Is it really just liquid chlorine? If so how much do I need to buy, I think my pool will be around 20-23,000 gallons? (It looks like this will be my best bet, https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-3-x-128-oz-Chlorinating-Liquid-30128HDX/303115700 )

2- What chemicals do I need to close this pool this year? If I understand everything correctly, I just need to bring the pool up to "shock" level and maintained it for 24hrs? so just more liquid chlorine lol?

3- I will be using OKC public water, do I need to test this water for Alkalinity, high calcium or high metal content? if so will the TF-100 test kit do this, or do I need to go to a pool store?

4- Anything else I'm going to need?

5-And the most important thing that the family can't agree on is, deep end on one side or deep end in the middle, I don't know if you all can help with that but good luck lol...



Thanks for all the help.

 

[ajw22]

Test your fill water with your TF-100. Knowing that will give us an idea what chemicals you may need.

You will need stablizer (CYA) to raise it to 30. Use PoolMath to calculate. Since you are not sure of your pool volume add it in multiple doses so that you don’t overshoot. Use the sock method of adding CYA and do not dump it in the skimmer as the directions say to do.

Have you read Pool School - Closing (Winterizing) Your Above Ground Pool

 

[Human]

Ajw22 thanks for the reply, and yes I did read "Pool school - closing" I have a good understanding of winterizing the equipment, I just thought I would need to buy special closing chemicals or something. On a new note, my installer showed up today with everything and dropped it off, he is trying to get it installed tomorrow, so doesn't look like I will have time to test the water with the TF-100. I did get some chemicals that the pool store included, that I will list below. Maybe you guys can tell me if any of it is of any use, or anything I need to make sure does not make it into the pool.

Is it going to hurt anything to swim for a few days before the pump and filter have power? If he does get it installed this weekend, I think the earliest I can have a electrician out would be Tuesday or Wednesday, to run power to the pump.

What I got
3 DuraChlor Stabilizer ( for a total of 6lbs, 100% Cyanuric Acid)
6 PoolLife turboshock ( for a total of 6lbs)
PoolLife BriteStix (11lbs)
PH Rise (2.5lbs)
PH lower (3lbs)

 

[Dirk]

If you are not confident in determining your water volume by measuring your pool (because of whatever that deep end thingie is all about), I'll describe the "meter trick" to you. Gotta run just now, but I'll check in later...

 

[ajw22]

What I got
3 DuraChlor Stabilizer ( for a total of 6lbs, 100% Cyanuric Acid)
6 PoolLife turboshock ( for a total of 6lbs)
PoolLife BriteStix (11lbs)
PH Rise (2.5lbs)
PH lower (3lbs)

If your pool is 20,000 gallons than 6 lbs of stabilizer will raise your CYA to 40 (36 according to PoolMath). 5 lbs would get you to 30 CYA. Since you are not sure what your pool size is, I would add 4 lbs of CYA, test, then add 1 lb, and see if you are at 30.

Best way to lower PH is using Muratic Acid. The solid PH Lower will add sulfates to your water.

Best way to raise PH is by aeration. It is all explained here --> Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

It looks like BriteStix has copper in it which you do not want to add to your pool https://www.hydropool.com/downloads/MSDS/poolife/poolife-brite-stix-msds.pdf



You want to use liquid chlorine/bleach instead of Turboshock. See https://www.hydropool.com/downloads/MSDS/poolife/poolife-turbo-shock-msds.pdf Unscented, no additive not Clorox bleach.

 

[Human]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Our pool is getting pushed off till Thursday, installer broke his bobcat. On a good note I did get my tf-100 kit today, so I am able to test my fill water now. Since this is 100% new to me, what test do I need to run on my fill water?

 

[ajw22]

CL, TA, PH, and CH. No reason to waste CYA reagent when you know it will be 0.

 

[Dirk]

Not CYA, there won't be any. CH and TA are good to know. FC and pH can easily be adjusted in your pool, so there's no real need to know those up front, but getting a feel for how to do those two tests is important, because you'll be doing each a lot right away, especially FC, so run those too, just for the experience.

 

[Human]

Ok first time testing any water, but I think I did it correctly. Only thing i'm not 100% sure about the FC test. Is the FC test the same as the Total chlorine test with the Taylor k-1000? because that is the test that I did with reagents R-0600.

TC -.5-1
TA - 50
PH - 7.2 (Maybe lower but not near 6.8)
CH - 120

 

[ajw22]

Your first tests look reasonable and decent fill water.

 

[Dirk]

I don't know the K-1000, but FC and TC are not the same thing, though they can be the same number. FC + CC = TC. In a well maintained pool with nothing for the chlorine to chew on, CC will be zero, which means TC would equal FC. But if your chlorine is working on something, and CC is elevated, TC will be the total of FC and CC. TPFC uses FC to determine chlorine dosing, and monitors CC to make sure your FC is doing its job. If CC gets much above 0.5, then it's time to further test what's going on in your pool.

As you get better at testing pH, you'll be able to read "between the lines." My comparator goes 7.0, 7.2, 7.4, 7.6, 7.8 and 8.0. When I'm comparing a color that is not quite as "orange" as 7.4, but not quite as magenta as 7.6, I call it 7.5. A white card behind the comparator, both under good light, will help you distinguish colors.

 

[Human]

You guys I'm so lost on this testing stuff, its not even funny anymore lol. It looks like I did one test wrong which is the FC test, I did a total chlorine test (TC), I thought that was a FC test.

I guess with the TF-100 test kit, you have two ways to find TC, one is just one test with the K-1000 and it will only tell you TC. The other is doing a DPD chlorine test, and it will tell you FC and TC, or I could do a FAS-DPD test, and that will tell me FC and CC. So to find the FC, I will need to do a DPD test, or a FAS-DPD test correct? If so I just did a FAS-DPD test and I come up with

Fill water
FC - 1
CC - 1
*TA - 50
*PH - 7.2
*CH - 120
*TC - .5-1


If I am correct with the above, the last few questions I have are.

1-what is a CL test, is it a Chlorine test? If so is a CL/Chlorine test and TC/Total chlorine test, is it the same thing, just different wording?

2-One of the things I want to find out is if my water has high calcium or a high metal content. The CH test tells me that I don't have a high calcium count correct? and if so how do I test for a high metal content, or is a pool store the only way?


As always thanks again, sorry for all the questions, this is just a new world to me and I want to get it right the first time.

 

[Dirk]

Phfft! "all the questions?" You should have seen my first posts!! No worries.

I don't know the TF-100, sorry, someone else will have to help you with the details of that kit. I think that kit comes with two chlorine tests. One is the quickie "Do I have any chlorine in my pool?" test. The other, the FAS-DPD test is the one you need to get good with, and the one you use to determine how much chlorine to add. I, too, was confused by Allen's reference to the "CL" test, maybe that's a TF-100 thing. My Taylor kit only has the FAS-DPD test, so that's all I use (and that's all you need to use, at least for now). So you could simplify this part of your learning curve and just use the FAS-DPD test, which is what I'm recommending.

Also, don't worry about TC right now. I've actually never used it for anything in almost a year of testing. Have you fooled around with PoolMath yet? TC is not even something you input to figure out your dosing. Fahgettaboudit!

You need to keep track of FC and CC and you get those using the FAS-DPD test. Hey, a reoccurring theme!

Yes, CH is your calcium. 120 is lowish. That's good. But that's a bigger concern for folks with plaster pools. Another thing you don't need to worry about just now.

You can't have FC 1 and CC 1 and TC .5-1. They don't add up. But like I said, forget about TC. I only mention it because it looks like you have some sort of testing error. The chances of tap water with a CC of 1 is very remote. So... just use FAS-DPD for now. An FC of 1 is about right. Sometimes tap water is even lower. I would expect CC of tap water to be zero. So practice with the FAS-DPD test a bit more. See what you come up with.

The common TFP advice for testing metals is to take the water to a pool store. You can let them test everything else, they'll probably want to. But just ignore everything but metals. The key to success with TFPC is testing yourself and trusting your results. Injecting doubt into the equation by comparing your results to the pool store's is a sure fire way to fail. Trust TFP. Trust your test kit. You'll get there. Ignore pool store advice. Just take the metal results and run!

But if you use a Leslie's, grab one of their free water sample containers. They're perfect for your home testing.

 

[Dirk]

Oh, one possible glitch. The CC test is time sensitive. You have to perform it fairly soon after you get FC results, so that might be all it was to the weird CC number.

 

[ajw22]

What Dirk said. The CL test to use is the FAS-DPD test for FC. I would not expect your tap water has any CC but do the test as practice. Your questions are why you are practicing on your tap water do you have a better understanding when you get to your pool.

 

[Human]

As always thanks for the help guys. We do have a Leslie's pool store about 15mins away, and today we got it tested. I did run my tests again, and I will run them again tomorrow to see if my numbers change a lot. Dirk you are 100% correct with "test is time sensitive". When I added the r-0870 powder it did not change and I was getting frustrated so I left it alone for 15-20mins. When I came back it had a hint of pink in it and I thought I just missed it the first time, so I just continued the test from where I left off lol.

Pool store test.

Iron 0
chlorine 2
Copper 4
PH 7.6
Alk 80


My new tests are
FC- 0 (Never went pink at all)
CC- 0.5 (I did have to add one drop to get it back to clear)
TA- 60
PH- 7.0
CH- 125


Now my next 2 questions are.
1 - How do my tests look now? anything crazy about them?
2 - Do I need to worry about a copper lvl of 4? or can I buy something now to remove?




Thanks

 

[Dirk]

We'll have to call in the metals expert. Nothing I can help with, for sure. Stand by on that.

Tests look OK.* See how far off they are from the pool store? Was that the same water?

*Not sure why you're getting CC in your tap water. And I'm not sure you can get CC if there is no FC. Sorry, no answers for you! I'll have to consult.

 

[Human]

Dirk, Yes same water source, and from my searching it looks like you can't remove cooper, without a drain but that would be pointless since this would be my fill water lol. So I don't know what to do.



This is what I'm doing. On step 3 when I add R-0870 nothing happens, water stays clear. Then I'm moving on to step 6 when I add 5 drops of r-0003 it does turn pink, but one drop of r-0871 makes it clear again. Maybe I need to add one drop of r-0871 in step 4 even if the water is already clear, then move onto step 6? I wonder if I did that if that would make my CC 0?



Instructions.

1-Rinse the sample tube with pool water.

2-Fill the sample tube with pool water to the 10 ml mark.

3-Using the small spoon shaped end of the dipper, add one heaping dipper, or two level dippers, of R-0870 and swirl to mix. If the sample turns pink for a moment and then turns clear again, or if it turns brown, add another dipper of R-0870. If the sample remains clear the entire time, your FC level is probably zero, however it is best to verify that with an OTO chlorine test, since the FAS-DPD test is prone to the occasional false zero.

4-Swirling constantly and counting the number of drops as you go, add R-0871 one drop at a time. Continue adding drops until the color changes to clear. The pink color may become extremely faint before it goes away. Make sure that the sample goes completely clear.

5-Multiply the number of drops by 0.5 to get your FC level.

6-Add 5 drops of R-0003 and swirl to mix. If the sample remains clear, your CC level is zero.

7-If the sample turns pink again, add R-0871 one drop at a time, swirling constantly and counting the number of drops as you go. Continue adding drops until the color changes to clear. The pink color may become extremely faint before it goes away. Make sure that the sample goes completely clear.
8-Multiply the number of drops by 0.5 to get your CC level.

 

[Dirk]

The concern about the CC in your tap water is purely academic. As is the reading of FC 0, whether it's is a false zero or not. It sounds like you're testing correctly. You're presenting your results correctly. All good.

For your purposes, your fill water will be FC 0. Once you're testing a pool, you'll get "real" FC and CC numbers, on which you can act. What you're getting now will have no affect on how you'll dose your pool with chlorine.

Your TA and CH are good for a vinyl pool, so you'll likely have nothing to do there. pH is easy to adjust should you need to. And CYA you'll add once the water is in. Lookin' good.

On to bigger things! I see you're guesstimating your water volume. Here's what to do come fill day, assuming you're on city water with a water meter.

Just before they start your fill, find your water meter and take a picture of the dial, to capture the meter reading. When the water reaches halfway up the skimmer opening (or wherever your PB tells you the "full mark" is), then shut off the hose(s) and take another picture of the meter reading.

During the fill, minimize water usage. Turn off all irrigation. Take a break from doing any laundry or running the dishwasher. Take your shower(s) before they start the hose, if you can, etc.

With the two meter readings, you'll be able to calculate the volume of water in your pool! Much more accurate than trying to do the math on the pool's dimensions. If you couldn't get your crew to go easy on showers and toilet flushes, you can subtract a few hundred gallons from your result. Either way, it'll be close enough for PoolMath, for calculating your dosing.

Some people connect a flow meter to their hose. But by using the city water meter, you can use as many hoses as you can connect to your house and reach to your pool, to shorten your fill time!

If it looks like your fill is going to end in the middle of the night, we can do some math to estimate the end time. That way, you can take a nap before going out to turn off the hose!

 

[kimkats]

I am popping in to share some links about the copper in your water. Is there ANY way you can truck in water that does not have any copper in it? It might be $$$ but the copper in your water could be costly to deal with as well. I do understand you will have to top your pool off with your fill water though. Just thought I would ask in case you have not thought of it.

Here are some links to other (older) threads about copper in water:

Remove copper through shocking?

Removing metals from water

Copper removal

From reading the above threads it looks like you will need "CuLator" (when you do a search for it make sure to put in the word pool with it to bring up the correct stuff) to remove the copper from your water. If you could swing the "clean water" fill then you can treat the fill water as needed. Just an idea. I DO understand if the trucked in water is too costly.

I am also going to ping our metal expert and see what she has to say.

Kim