New Pool | Just Activated SWG | Help Needed

[zollan23]

Hello everyone -

I have a 14,000 gallon mini-pebble plaster pool and after 30+ days since we added our water, the contractor turned on the SWG yesterday. I had been doing great with my chemistry using liquid chlorine and now everything is out of whack and I have a few questions. I want to see what the experts here think vs. what my contractor is telling me.

Prior to them adding salt, my chemistry was this:
FC - 4-6ppm
pH - 7.5
TA - 110 (started at 140 and I kept lowering pH to 7.2 with acid and using aeration to bring it down)
CH - 350
CYA - 50

Yesterday, they added 9, 40lb bags of salt and one gallon of 14% muriatic acid and turned on the iChlor 30. I watched them do this and they left the salt in the deep end for a while. They eventually brushed it around but it had been there for hours. After leaving, they left the iChlor at 62% and I tested all my levels this morning. Here's this morning's reading:

FC - 1.0
pH - 6.9
TA - 70 (lowest I've ever seen it)
CH - 325
CYA - 50
Salt - 5,000ppm according to Taylor drop test (iChlor 30 reads 4,637) - the cell is blinking green indicating too much salt
CSI - (-0.88)

The iChlor manual says 3,600ppm is ideal and anything over 4,500 is too high. Clearly, I'm too high and they added too much salt.

The contractor has mentioned several things after I've told them what's happening and I just want to get a gut check. Here are the claims they've made:
- Mostly likely, the salt is concentrated in the deep end and run the pump for 24 hours. We will check levels again on Monday
- We added extra bags because the generator needs to convert the salt to Chlorine. It might take a few weeks of use to bring it down (that seems like B.S.) - They added, there should be no damage to the equipment
- If I'm worried about it, they recommended backwashing a foot or so of water and filling the pool back up (I don't have any D.E. on hand, but I can go get some if TFP thinks this is the best course of action)
- Lastly, they recommended putting the cell at 100% for the time being and testing again tomorrow. They also recommended getting the pH to 7-7.2 to make the salt cell work more effectively.

Would love to get thoughts here. Thanks, all.

 

[HermanTX]

Do you have the salt kit - K1766? By adding LC for a month, you were also adding salt to the pool water so the PB should have tested the water for salt concentration before adding. You need to test your own level of salt going forward.
Salt does not disappear when making Chlorine. You can lower the concentration via dilution which PB is indicating to backwash. Rather than backwash - can you just drain to waste. I assume you have a multiport valve in front of the DE filter. It has a waste setting and does not disturb the DE filter. If not - post a picture.
Agree you need to increase your FC level. You could add LC again so you do not have to dial up your SWCG to max.

 

[reggiehammond]

Just anecdotally, salt readings at the SWCG were wonky for around 48 hours when I first converted to SWCG.

 

[Jimrahbe]

23,

If your Taylor salt test says the pool water has about 5,000 ppm of salt, then you have no choice but to drain a lot of water until you can get the salt level down to about 3600..

Your pool builder is an idiot if he thinks that a SWCG consumes salt...

He is somewhat right about running for 24 hours to ensure that the salt is well mixed, but that should not have any effect on the Taylor salt tests, since you are getting water close to the surface and not at your main drain.

Keep in mind that with a 15K pool and a 30K SWCG, you will have to run it at 100% output for about 12 hours a day to generate the chlorine your pool will need. I suggest that you use Liquid Chlorine and get your FC up now.

How long are you running the pump and at what output percentage??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[zollan23]

Thanks for the help, all. A few things for you.

Confirming I'm using the Taylor K1766

Adding a picture of my filter setup. Would love to know how I can drain water without backwashing.

Runtime - I thought a good rule of thumb for SWG was to get one 2x the size of your pool. In my case, iChlor 30 for a 14k gallon pool seemed ok? I didn't think I'd have to run the pump 12hrs/day at 100%. That seems nuts.

I will add liquid chlorine today but I'd like to to do it after I drain and refill.

This just happened yesterday so I'm basically just running my pump 24 hrs at 2500. Normally I run the pump about 16hrs a day mostly at low speed (1,800) with a few hrs at 3,000. If we are swimming I'll turn on the water features and keep it at 3,000 too.

Thanks

 

[HermanTX]

Adding a picture of my filter setup. Would love to know how I can drain water without backwashing.

Unfortunately you have a slide valve (also called a push/pull valve). it only has 2 positions which are filter mode and backwash mode.
You could purchase a submersible pump from Home Depot to partially drain your pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I didn't think I'd have to run the pump 12hrs/day at 100%. That seems nuts.

23,

Well I was going for worst case...

Your 30K cell, in your 14K pool, will produce about 8.6 ppm of FC per day when running at 100% output. That is .36 ppm of FC per hour.

Most pools use 2 to 4 ppm of FC per day, so let's say your pool uses 3 ppm of FC per day. To make 3 ppm of FC you will have to run your pump for a little over 8 hours, but that is with the cell's output set to 100%... If you run the cell at say 50% then you will have to run the pump for about 16 hours.

I noticed that you did not say where you have your cell's output set...

SWCG's have no brain.. You are the cell's brain. You have to test your FC level and then make adjusts so that your cell makes the amount of chlorine your pool needs.. You can either run it longer or increase the cell's output, or a combination of both, it does not matter which..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[zollan23]

Unfortunately you have a slide valve (also called a push/pull valve). it only has 2 positions which are filter mode and backwash mode.
You could purchase a submersible pump from Home Depot to partially drain your pool.

Ouch. I wonder if the PB has another way to drain water out. I could have sworn he said there was a way. Will report back.

 

[zollan23]

23,

Well I was going for worst case...

Your 30K cell, in your 14K pool, will produce about 8.6 ppm of FC per day when running at 100% output. That is .36 ppm of FC per hour.

Most pools use 2 to 4 ppm of FC per day, so let's say your pool uses 3 ppm of FC per day. To make 3 ppm of FC you will have to run your pump for a little over 8 hours, but that is with the cell's output set to 100%... If you run the cell at say 50% then you will have to run the pump for about 16 hours.

I noticed that you did not say where you have your cell's output set...

SWCG's have no brain.. You are the cell's brain. You have to test your FC level and then make adjusts so that your cell makes the amount of chlorine your pool needs.. You can either run it longer or increase the cell's output, or a combination of both, it does not matter which..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you for the clarity. Is there a standard of what people are running an SWG? I'm sure "it depends."

The contractor left it at 65% yesterday. I cranked to 100% today but then backed it to 50% and added LC instead per the recommendations here. I've left it at 50% for now and will look to adjust after I've gotten the salinity under control. Contractor is coming by Monday to check on things so we'll see where we are.

We did swim in it today... definitely salty

 

[HermanTX]

Ouch. I wonder if the PB has another way to drain water out. I could have sworn he said there was a way. Will report back.

If you have the part number and mfg. of the one that is installed we can do some more research. Also, did he leave the manual that it came with? The way they have it set up with drain on bottom there may be another position but need to have the exact model of what you have.

 

[zollan23]

If you have the part number and mfg. of the one that is installed we can do some more research. Also, did he leave the manual that it came with? The way they have it set up with drain on bottom there may be another position but need to have the exact model of what you have.

The valve kit is kit vlv pshpll... 270184 then it says 7.5" cntr and 263061/263064.

The filter itself is the Pentair FNS Plus, FNSP 60

 

[HermanTX]

The valve kit is kit vlv pshpll... 270184 then it says 7.5" cntr and 263061/263064.

The filter itself is the Pentair FNS Plus, FNSP 60

It appears the model # is 263064. The 7.5" is the distance between the 2 union connections. Not sure what 270184 means but could be the specific number for the outer housing only.
I found a operating instruction on a 3rd party website (appears Pentair does not have it on their website). When connected to a DE filter the handle is DOWN for normal filtration mode. To backwash (turn off pump first) then twist and pull handle UP. Therefore this is as indicated before only a 2 position slide valve. See this link.
Sorry that it cannot bypass and drain without backwashing the DE powder.

 

[zollan23]

It appears the model # is 263064. The 7.5" is the distance between the 2 union connections. Not sure what 270184 means but could be the specific number for the outer housing only.
I found a operating instruction on a 3rd party website (appears Pentair does not have it on their website). When connected to a DE filter the handle is DOWN for normal filtration mode. To backwash (turn off pump first) then twist and pull handle UP. Therefore this is as indicated before only a 2 position slide valve. See this link.
Sorry that it cannot bypass and drain without backwashing the DE powder.

Thank you so much. I will wait for contractor on Monday, in that case. His fault so he can deal with it.

 

[zollan23]

It appears the model # is 263064. The 7.5" is the distance between the 2 union connections. Not sure what 270184 means but could be the specific number for the outer housing only.
I found a operating instruction on a 3rd party website (appears Pentair does not have it on their website). When connected to a DE filter the handle is DOWN for normal filtration mode. To backwash (turn off pump first) then twist and pull handle UP. Therefore this is as indicated before only a 2 position slide valve. See this link.
Sorry that it cannot bypass and drain without backwashing the DE powder.

Possible stupid question, but would it help if I just put the hose into the pool and let it run? Would this have a similar effect to rain in that it would dilute the water or would the pool just overflow? I have an auto fill and just assume it has the ability to drain but I could be way off.

 

[HermanTX]

but would it help if I just put the hose into the pool and let it run? Would this have a similar effect to rain in that it would dilute the water or would the pool just overflow?

While you may get some dilution (from the current water level to the top of the coping), it may be very small from a ratio standpoint (i.e. 5% of your volume).
You can do a water exchange but it requires you to drain while your fill. However, where does your water go if the pool starts to overflow? Are there deck drains or is there a specific overflow drain (can be seen at water tile level)?
Alternatively, can you use a submersible pump and pump to a irrigation drain (if allowed by local rules)?
Please read the following and look at section 3.5

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[zollan23]

Just to update here. Drained about 18" of pool water today and filled with the hose. Salt is now 3,600. Time to get to work balancing the water again and swim!

Thanks for all of the help, as usual. Excited to not have to manually add chlorine anymore