New Pool in Orlando

[SchubeyDew]

Hello everyone! I am currently getting quotes to have a new pool built. I have some prior experience with pools as I previously had a chlorine kidney bean shaped pool that was about 18,000gal. When I purchased the home the pool was in terrible condition with broken pipes around the pump and filter and black/green water. I replaced the cartridge filter with a sand filter and later replaced the pump and then the pump assembly. I had that pool for about 10yrs before moving a few times and now that I’m settled again, I’m looking to have a pool put in at the new house.
We are looking at building a pool with a natural gas heated spa that can overflow into the pool. It will be rectangular in shape with a raised spa either in the back corner or the centered along the back of the pool. We want a sun deck with a few bubblers and possibly a water feature or fire bowls, if we can work them into the budget.
I had my first pool builder come out today and it left me with a few questions, so I’d like some input from you guys on what your experiences have been. I was already thinking of doing pavers around the pool patio area, but when he said they don’t even offer concrete because pavers are cheaper and look better, I was surprised. Good, I guess, but surprising. He also mentioned that if we go further than 28’ back from the house with the screen enclosure, they need to use stronger structure for the enclosure so it brings the price up. Makes sense and depending on which design we use, we may or may not need to go further than 28’. I asked how much additional paver area would cost compared to increasing the size of the pool, and was surprised when he said it was basically a wash. I would be content with an 18,000gal pool like I had before but if I could make it larger without increasing the cost significantly, that is appealing to me as I have two kids, plan on doing an outdoor kitchen and imagine we will quite a few people over from time to time. It seemed to be a forgone conclusion that I would do a salt system. I’m familiar with an old school chlorine system with a sand filter and never really had any problems, but I’m not opposed to learning something new. Is there a genera consensus on here about whether salt, ozone or chlorine systems are best? The last thing was when asked, the sales guy said that they used Jandy products because they are sponsored by them. I’m not really sure what to think about this. It could mean I’m getting a better price or it could mean that I’m not getting the best product because they are getting a kickback. I’m not strictly sold on any particular manufacturer, but have had good luck with Hayward products in the past. Anyone know what it means to be “Sponsored by” a pool equipment manufacturer? TIA for all of your input. Lots of decisions to be made here and I have two more pool builders coming out later in the week.

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome to TFP.
If you have a graphic or a hand drawing that is always helpful to visualize your set up.
A larger pool now is better than wishing you had a larger one later so best to go with larger if it fits your budget. Have noticed on several new construction threads that some PB have a base price on a certain size (square area) and if you go above it, it may jump in price - such as jumping into a higher tax bracket. So you may want to find that threshold of each PB to maximize your pool.

With regard to pavers vs cement deck - I assume the labor involved in laying pavers is more which offsets the concrete deck. I would worry that pavers become uneven over time but you can determine what is best for your soil. Maybe ask some neighbors that have pools.

The overwhelming thought on the forum is that a SWCG is preferred over all other sanitation methods. Just ensure it is rated for 2x your pool volume - so an 18k gal pool should have a 40k gal rated SWCG. (they normally are rated in 10s such as 15, 20, 30, 40, etc). Jandy has 2 models a 12k gal and a 40k gal system.

Jandy is one of the top 3 mfg (others are Pentair and Hayward). You should be fine. Not sure what a "sponsored" company but my guess is that they get it a discount. Now at what retail price to you is probably a good question. It is always best to get 3 bids so you can compare.
Ensure you get a variable speed pump for main circulation
Cartridge or sand filters are good choices
You will probably want a heater if you have a spa so go with 400BTU to heat quickly

Will you have a water feature? Or just spillover from spa to pool?

Post your bids once you get them - best to blank out the PB name and your personal details.
Good Luck.

 

[OrlandoBull]

Welcome, I am also in Orlando (actually Winter Garden), getting ready to go on an owner-build pool. The "sponsored" by Jandy seems odd... I suspect that they use Jandy exclusively because they set up all of the automation, so if you call and say something isn't working, they can pull it up on their end and see if it's something simple to troubleshoot remotely. Jandy is good equipment though, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it. I highly doubt that any discounts would be passed on to you.

Pavers seem to be the standard around here. I found the same on my last build, got a price for stamped concrete and it was significantly higher than pavers. If you can swing it, ask for polymeric sand to help prevent weeds. Otherwise, if the install is good, you shouldn't have any issues.

You could ask your builder for a price with a screen and one with just the necessary footings and contract the screen later. I think you would likely save a little money this way as you're not paying the markup to the builder on the screen. You can do it immediately after the pool is done, but it's an option... one caveat to that is if it is being used as the pool barrier, you may not be able to defer as you won't get your final inspection without that barrier.

One thing we're doing is adding an insulated aluminum roof to a portion of our screen for shade, may be worth exploring if you need to add shade to your setup.

 

[SchubeyDew]

So I’m actually in Winter Garden too, in the new area by 429, not downtown. Just generalized when I saw that this forum is for everywhere. When you say owner build pool, I assume you mean you will handle the permits and scheduling of contractors as opposed to building under the umbrella of a pool builder?
I spoke with my rear neighbor today for about an hour and a half about his pool that he had built last year. It gave me a good idea of what to expect for some of the up charges, if I go with his builder. As for the size of the pool, it looks like my original design is just a hair over what would fit under the more economic screen enclosure, but my wife and I agreed that we would rather wait on the enclosure than pick a pool design we don’t like or feel is too small.
Pavers are very popular around here and for a pool deck I don’t think settling will be much of an issue. In my previous home I did notice some settling in the driveway after a few years, but I won’t be parking a car on this. I love the look of stamped concrete but I don’t think I could stomach paying the extra money for it, having it crack and being at a loss for how to make it look like it originally did.Considering Florida is mostly sand, settling is an issue, and you see a lot of cracks on patio because of that. One thing my neighbor mentioned was that he sealed his pavers and wished he didn’t because it made them too slick.
I probably won’t do a roof just because part of my pool area will be the pre-existing 30x10 cover patio. I can see why it would nice to have otherwise though!
I would like to have a few bubblers on the sun shelf and maybe a waterfall or two along the back of the pool, but we’ll see what the quotes come up to.
I appreciate the input on the Jandy equipment. My neighbor has their automation and I liked the way it was set up.
As for posting the bids, do you guys generally post the entire thing (itemized detail) or just a more general price and details? Below is my drawing (very rough) of my basic pool design.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Here is another potential design, with the spa mounted in the back of the pool, but centered. This design would an additional five feet to the back of the pool area, so would be more costly.

 

[OrlandoBull]

So I’m actually in Winter Garden too, in the new area by 429, not downtown. Just generalized when I saw that this forum is for everywhere. When you say owner build pool, I assume you mean you will handle the permits and scheduling of contractors as opposed to building under the umbrella of a pool builder?
I spoke with my rear neighbor today for about an hour and a half about his pool that he had built last year. It gave me a good idea of what to expect for some of the up charges, if I go with his builder. As for the size of the pool, it looks like my original design is just a hair over what would fit under the more economic screen enclosure, but my wife and I agreed that we would rather wait on the enclosure than pick a pool design we don’t like or feel is too small.
Pavers are very popular around here and for a pool deck I don’t think settling will be much of an issue. In my previous home I did notice some settling in the driveway after a few years, but I won’t be parking a car on this. I love the look of stamped concrete but I don’t think I could stomach paying the extra money for it, having it crack and being at a loss for how to make it look like it originally did.Considering Florida is mostly sand, settling is an issue, and you see a lot of cracks on patio because of that. One thing my neighbor mentioned was that he sealed his pavers and wished he didn’t because it made them too slick.
I probably won’t do a roof just because part of my pool area will be the pre-existing 30x10 cover patio. I can see why it would nice to have otherwise though!
I would like to have a few bubblers on the sun shelf and maybe a waterfall or two along the back of the pool, but we’ll see what the quotes come up to.
I appreciate the input on the Jandy equipment. My neighbor has their automation and I liked the way it was set up.
As for posting the bids, do you guys generally post the entire thing (itemized detail) or just a more general price and details? Below is my drawing (very rough) of my basic pool design. View attachment 173928

Yes, we are subcontracting all of the pieces and parts ourselves. We did this at our previous house as well. Your second design looks very similar to my old pool except we had the sun shelf on the end instead of across from the spa. Same reason you're dealing with in minimizing the depth, the cost never came up, it was more about preserving some of our back yard on our end.

You should think about the views from inside the house too with placement of your spa/spillover. That tends to be a visual focal point, does any specific placement provide better views from inside the house?

If you decide to contract the screen separate, you will need to have the footers put in. I have a screen guy that did my last pool, PM me if you want information to get a cost to do it separately.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Thanks for the input OrlandoBull. I was focusing my design visual on a few things, but hadn’t considered the view from inside the home. I want to place the spa at the back of the pool so I have more of a clear view of the Disney fireworks when they start again. Looking at the drawing, the fireworks are to the left. Both of my neighbors have single story homes that extend about 30’ past the back of my home, so the idea is to get as clear of the homes as possible.
As for the sun shelf, I chose it’s placement based on all day sunlight. That placement puts the sun shelf as far as possible away from the neighbor’s homes so that area is Sunny all day.
On another note, fire bowls are expensive! The Pentair Magicbowls look pretty cool though and are more reasonably priced. Go to ask the PB today about installation costs.

 

[SchubeyDew]

So I’m three pool builders deep now and I just found out that two of the three may be in bankruptcy. Yikes! The information did come from a competitor though, so I’d like to verify, if I can. The third builder seems to have a solid reputation from literally everyone I have talked to. The guy did not try to upsell me on anything and tried to educate me on several things as far as pros and cons of different things. A few things that came up that I wouldn’t mind some input on. I have natural gas available at my home and was offered a natural gas pool and spa heater or a heat pump. From my understanding the heat pump would be better if I wanted to keep the pool temperature warmer on a consistent basis. The gas heater would be better because it heats everything up faster, but won’t be the most efficient if I want it heated all the time. I’m leaning towards the gas heater as I want to be able to heat it quickly and I don’t anticipate wanting to pay utilities to cover heating it all the time. The screen was another thing. Screens are a big deal in Florida because of all the bugs. Even in my old pool in Tennessee I couldn’t turn the pool light on at night or they would swarm the water. Screens do prevent some sunlight from getting through and because of that they keep the temperature cooler. So one guy suggested I wait a year before putting one up. Any other Floridians want to chime in on that? I would have the footer poured regardless. I also had one builder tell me he feels no difference between salt and Chlorine and that he actually took the salt system out of his pool because he felt like it just added more maintenance. Speaking of maintenance, it sounds like nobody offers sand filters anymore. Just DE or cartridge. What happened? I loved my sand filter. No expensive cartridge to replace or clean, just backwash it once a week and change the sand every few years. If anyone wants to chime in on any of that, I’m all ears. I am hoping to have my first quote back tomorrow but probably won’t get the others until later next week.

 

[OrlandoBull]

I have never been fortunate to have natural gas, but my understanding is that is the ticket. It is close to the same cost as a heat pump with the prices for NG. Propane is quite a bit more expensive, so I would opt for HP over propane, but if I had NG at my house, I would go that route in a heartbeat.

We've been chatting, but I had one with a screen and my prior home had one without. I personally would not consider not having a screen down here.

In our last pool, we used the spa a ton at night, I cant imagine doing that with mosquitos attacking us the whole time.

Go with salt. Don't know what that guy is smoking, but you need to add chlorine to your pool daily, especially down here with all of the rain and sunlight. Tablets cause their own issues and do you really want to do liquid chlorine daily? Salt makes its own Chlorine and you only really need to test and make sure you keep the salt levels right... I needed to add salt maybe 3x per year on my previous pool. I would tend to agree that the salt vs chlorine "feeling" on your skin isn't something that I noticed.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Thanks again for your input OrlandoBull. Still don’t have any quotes back yet (was supposed to have one by now), but I have gotten to see a few quotes that my neighbors have gotten from pool companies that we are considering so it’s interesting to see how the different companies charge and what is “Included.” It seems like the companies that include more include it because they use an inferior, or at least, not as well known product. An example of this would be the company that “Makes their own pebble blend” surfacing. Of course they tout a lifetime warranty, but if the company goes belly up, you’re out of luck. The two more recommended PB’s both use Wet Edge, which seems to be a better know, quality product. I have reached out to a screen company to get a price independent of pool builders but have not heard back yet. Looking at my neighbor’s quotes, one company wants to charge literally double what the other company is charging!
My latest area of research is pool automation. I like tech stuff and have some home automation stuff incorporated into my home but from what I’ve read on here, the pool automation systems are stuck in the 70’s. Still, I can see it being useful for the following things-turning lights or water features on and off, regulating chlorine/salt levels and turning the heater/spa on and off. I’m fairly good with electronics and I’m curious about how much of this stuff might be included when a PB includes “Pool Automation.” I guess that’s something I’ll have to talk to them about.

 

[HermanTX]

An example of this would be the company that “Makes their own pebble blend” surfacing. Of course they tout a lifetime warranty, but if the company goes belly up, you’re out of luck. The two more recommended PB’s both use Wet Edge, which seems to be a better know, quality product.

I think your concerns are justified on "pebble blends" made "in-house". I have Wet Edge and love it. My suggestion, regardless of which plaster you choose is to call them or search their website and look for "authorized installers". That is the only way to obtain the full warrant from a name-brand plaster mfg. such as Wet Edge or Pebble Tec, etc.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Well, I got my first quote back and it was in the ballpark of what I was expecting, but a lot of adjustments need to be made.
I’m not sure how typical this is, as this is the first quote I have got back, but there will have to be a lot of adjustments made to this. In the drawing I gave the PB (the same as in the post above, I left five feet of clearance on either side of the pool so that you could have room for a chair and someone to comfortably walk by. I only left 2’ along the back to maximize pool space and minimize extra deck costs as I don’t intend to use this area for anything but pool cleaning. I also spaced the sun shelf to accommodate for a bar along the part of the house to the left and for some reason he shifted it over, leaving 2.5’ of clearance between the end of the bar instead of the 5’ my drawing allowed. The only adjustment that makes any sense to me is the one along the back. Maybe he thought 2’ wasn’t enough. Overall, the price seems on par with what I believe others will come in at, but the attention to detail is lacking. I should have another quote tomorrow and then a third by the end of the week.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Sorry, forgot the important part!

 

[OrlandoBull]

This price doesn't look too bad. You'll definitely find that you're going to need to go back and forth with a builder. I got one "design" back on mine and one price from another builder based on my design. The guy that came out and did a "design" didn't use my design at all. It was similar, but felt like he just tried to slap something together (or pull something he already had). His price was higher than I will do mine for, and, I saw easily another $5k+ that he was missing out of his numbers. It's crazy that this is the cost we're all expecting around here these days.

Based on the prices I am getting back, this doesn't look bad. You'll need to check and make sure you have all of the materials you want, check the functional stuff too... how many returns in the pool, how many lights and what kind, how many spa jets do you want (4 seems light for your spa size), what kind of equipment are they planning, automation, how much will gas connection cost you. Before you sign up with anyone, you'll want to have all of these answers in writing I think to make sure you don't get hit with large change orders during construction.

 

[Nikilyn]

You might want to black out your personal information on there.
What does mini pebble with neighbors mean?
We have 3' of deck along the back sides and it seems like the right width for comfortable walking. You might not be sitting back there but kids will be back there because kids run around pools.
We told our guy that we wanted the same size pool we had before (his dad designed it) and it was 98' perimeter. He came back with a nice looking drawing but I realized something was off. He does them on graph paper so I started counting squares and it was a 70' perimeter pool . It wasn't like he drew it at 95' (which it ended up being) or even 90'. Nope, almost 30' smaller. So, yes, you will need to have them fix stuff.

 

[Joshwl2003]

Sorry, forgot the important part!
View attachment 174706

Price seems like what would be expected. Keep in mind with the propane heater you will need to either rent or buy a propane tank plus pay separate for hookup. Most builders told us it is about a wash with the cost of an electric heater but be ready. Also need to think about cost of upgrades at design time like glass tiles and what not.

Pavers vs concrete. Almost every Facebook thread I have ever seen about this indicates that people regret the pavers in Central Florida after a while. The sun will make them fade, they are normally very hot under your kids feet, they sink and will require more effort to keep clean. We have friends who have told us loved them at build time but can't keep them clean for nothing. I have also seen others complain that they have a pretty high cost factor to keep clean, repair from sinking and keep sealed. Something to think about. Those with travertine tend to have better luck because their are less seems.

 

[sl7vk]

Let's just say that your build is about 20-25k cheaper than the going rate out here.
I would know because I have a deposit down on a 15x30 with a built in 6x8 spa.

 

[SchubeyDew]

This price doesn't look too bad. You'll definitely find that you're going to need to go back and forth with a builder. I got one "design" back on mine and one price from another builder based on my design. The guy that came out and did a "design" didn't use my design at all. It was similar, but felt like he just tried to slap something together (or pull something he already had). His price was higher than I will do mine for, and, I saw easily another $5k+ that he was missing out of his numbers. It's crazy that this is the cost we're all expecting around here these days.

Based on the prices I am getting back, this doesn't look bad. You'll need to check and make sure you have all of the materials you want, check the functional stuff too... how many returns in the pool, how many lights and what kind, how many spa jets do you want (4 seems light for your spa size), what kind of equipment are they planning, automation, how much will gas connection cost you. Before you sign up with anyone, you'll want to have all of these answers in writing I think to make sure you don't get hit with large change orders during construction.

Glad to hear the price is within reason, especially from someone in the same area. My neighbor had a year old quote and when he got an updated price it had increased 10%. Your screen guy came back with a good price, btw.

You might want to black out your personal information on there.
What does mini pebble with neighbors mean?
We have 3' of deck along the back sides and it seems like the right width for comfortable walking. You might not be sitting back there but kids will be back there because kids run around pools.
We told our guy that we wanted the same size pool we had before (his dad designed it) and it was 98' perimeter. He came back with a nice looking drawing but I realized something was off. He does them on graph paper so I started counting squares and it was a 70' perimeter pool . It wasn't like he drew it at 95' (which it ended up being) or even 90'. Nope, almost 30' smaller. So, yes, you will need to have them fix stuff.

Thank you for pointing out the personal information. I had edited it out of one page, did not realize it was on the other. Mini pebble with the neighbor is a discount the PB offered of myself and my two neighbors (who are also getting quotes) build with them. I saw where they added a $650 discount for the micro dig excavation for the same reason. For reference, the micro dig seems to be about $3000 from most PB here and is required because the homes are so close together. Well, actually, we may be able to avoid it, if one neighbor who has a slightly wider lot will allow access, but I digress. I thought this might be pretty standard as far as making adjustments with the PB, and with yours and OrlandoBull’s info that’s pretty much confirmed in my mind.

 

[SchubeyDew]

Price seems like what would be expected. Keep in mind with the propane heater you will need to either rent or buy a propane tank plus pay separate for hookup. Most builders told us it is about a wash with the cost of an electric heater but be ready. Also need to think about cost of upgrades at design time like glass tiles and what not.

Pavers vs concrete. Almost every Facebook thread I have ever seen about this indicates that people regret the pavers in Central Florida after a while. The sun will make them fade, they are normally very hot under your kids feet, they sink and will require more effort to keep clean. We have friends who have told us loved them at build time but can't keep them clean for nothing. I have also seen others complain that they have a pretty high cost factor to keep clean, repair from sinking and keep sealed. Something to think about. Those with travertine tend to have better luck because their are less seems.

Fortunately, I already have natural gas at my home, so no need for a tank or tank rental. There will be a cost for the hookup, which I’m currently looking into. It’s my understanding that the natural gas heater will heat up much faster than electric and I like the idea of that.
The PB reached out to me today and we discussed some changes that I would like on the quote, but glass tile will not be on there. I had 2x2 tiles on my last pool and they always end up falling off over time. Travertine looks great, but I don’t have the budget to do the entire pool deck (800sq ft) in travertine with the prices I have seen. I really do like the look of pavers but only have experience with concrete deck around a pool. The PB’s I spoke to today said the cost of stamped concrete is easily twice the price of pavers and that would also push this project out of budget pretty quick. I’m not 100% decide on deck materials just yet but my thoughts, after talking to my realtor, a few pool builders and a few pool owners are that with concrete or pavers, neither is 100% maintenance free. Concrete can crack and there’s not much that you can do about it, other than fill the cracks, which still won’t look very nice. It still needs to be cleaned. It doesn’t quite have the same aesthetically pleasing appeal as pavers. Pavers look great, but when settling occurs, you may have to take them up and have them redone. They also require cleaning, but also maintenance like putting sand over the surface every year or two. They can be sealed but once they are sealed taking them out for settlement readjustments isn’t feasible without breaking the pavers. I’m leaning towards pavers because it seems like you can fix the settling issues by having that section removed and reinstalled. For concrete, once it’s cracked, there’s no way to make it look great again. Those are just my current thoughts and I may change my mind tomorrow

 

[HermanTX]

I’m leaning towards pavers because it seems like you can fix the settling issues by having that section removed and reinstalled. For concrete, once it’s cracked, there’s no way to make it look great again. Those are just my current thoughts and I may change my mind tomorrow

Your thought process is good to weigh pros & cons of each. What works for someone in TX is different for you in FL because of soil conditions. It is best you try to determine what your neighbors have done and their results. Maybe you already did that. Go with your gut feeling and what looks good now and gives you peace of mind. Pools, lawns, decks - all require maintenance so just decide which type of deck you like and go with it. If it is done right, the pavers may not settle as much as you think or the concrete may not crack. So focus on how to ensure it is done right once you pick what you like.