New pool, first tests

[Gopokes okc]

They filled up our new pool last week, and just got a chance today to test the water. I got a TF-100 test kit, and ran through the tests in the instructions. I have never had a pool before, or done any water testing of any kind so please be gentle. Here are the results I came up with.

Cl - 0 - no reading water was clear
CC - 0
Br - same as above
pH - 7.5
FC - 0
TA - 50
CH - 125
CYA - no reading, filled the tube to the top and still saw the black dot.

I haven't added any salt to the pool, as I read that you need to get the chemicals corrected first. What should my course of action be to get to the targeted levels. I'm not sure what to try to fix first. These are the numbers I'm using from the water balancing SWG page. Any help would really be appreciated.

FC	4-6 ppm
PH	7.2-7.8
TA	60-80
CH	220-320
CYA	70-80
Salt	200-400 ppm above recommended optimum level (3200)
Borates	30-50 ppm (optional)

 

[mknauss]

First step is to get 3 ppm FC using bleach or liquid chlorine concurrently with adding enough CYA powder to get 30 ppm. Use PoolMath
Add the CYA by using what we call the sock method. Get an old sock (no holes) and put the measured amount of CYA you need. Tie the sock closed and either suspend it in front of a return (hang it from your brush pole works with something weighted on the deck) OR if it still allows flow thru the skimmer, place the sock in the skimmer. Every 15/20 minutes give the sock a squeeze to speed up the process. Please DO NOT follow the directions on the container of CYA to just pour it into the skimmer and don't just toss the sock in the pool as the CYA is acidic and can bleach/stain pool finishes.

Be sure to add enough bleach or liquid chlorine each day following the [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] based on 30 ppm CYA.

I am not sure I would bother with putting salt in the pool. Your water temperatures will soon be such that the SWCG will not generate anyway. Just maintain the pool as a regular non-SWCG pool until you close the pool, or, if you do not close in your area, until your water temperatures reach 60F next spring.

 

[Dirk]

No gentleness needed! You rock. Armed with a great kit, posting results!! Awesome.

Let's get you set up for the "first responders" who will happen along in just a bit. They'll need a little info:

Is this an outdoor pool?

What type of sanitation were you thinking? Chlorine? (Recommended.)

As you're still learning your test kit, a little extra practice won't hurt. Run the following tests on your fill water:

FC
pH
TA
CH

No need for the other tests.

If you answered "Yes" to outdoor and "Yes" to chlorine:

While you're waiting for the chem experts, can you run out to get some liquid chlorine? You're going to need it, right away, like tonight. You can get some at a local pool store, or HD or Lowes or Walmart. Or just plain bleach (no additives). This is end of summer so some of these places are looking to dump their old stock. Try to find the freshest you can. Here's a link that explains how to interpret the date codes:

Chlorine Date Code Decoder/Easy Way to Measure Strength.

And while you're there pick up some CYA (cyanuric acid). Get the dry, crystal type, not the liquid. Be sure it is only CYA and nothing else, check the ingredients.

That'll get you started, more in just a bit.

Welcome to TFP!! Congrat's on the new pool!

 

[Dirk]

I don't know why I think I'm ever going to beat Marty to a thread!! Run out as I suggested to pick up your chemicals, then follow Marty's instructions when you get back. If you need any extra clarification on how to do any of that, don't be shy about asking. We all had to figure out the same stuff during our first week, too!

 

[Gopokes okc]

Awesome, I will get that going tomorrow. Would regular jugs of clorox bleach be ok for this?

That is interesting about the SWCG not generating in the cooler weather, the pool installer never mentioned that. They hooked the system up so that if the pump is on, the SWCG system is on as well. Do you think that is a problem that I should have changed, or does it matter? Thanks for the quick response!!

 

[Gopokes okc]

No gentleness needed! You rock. Armed with a great kit, posting results!! Awesome.

Let's get you set up for the "first responders" who will happen along in just a bit. They'll need a little info:

Is this an outdoor pool?

What type of sanitation were you thinking? Chlorine? (Recommended.)

As you're still learning your test kit, a little extra practice won't hurt. Run the following tests on your fill water:

FC
pH
TA
CH

No need for the other tests.

If you answered "Yes" to outdoor and "Yes" to chlorine:

While you're waiting for the chem experts, can you run out to get some liquid chlorine? You're going to need it, right away, like tonight. You can get some at a local pool store, or HD or Lowes or Walmart. Or just plain bleach (no additives). This is end of summer so some of these places are looking to dump their old stock. Try to find the freshest you can. Here's a link that explains how to interpret the date codes:

Chlorine Date Code Decoder/Easy Way to Measure Strength.

And while you're there pick up some CYA (cyanuric acid). Get the dry, crystal type, not the liquid. Be sure it is only CYA and nothing else, check the ingredients.

That'll get you started, more in just a bit.

Welcome to TFP!! Congrat's on the new pool!

Man, you all are fast! It is going to be chlorine, and it is outdoors. Do HD or Lowes sell the CYA as well? I was thinking I'd have to wait until a pool store opened in the morning.

 

[mknauss]

HD or Lowes or Walmart may have CYA and liquid chlorine. They do in my area.

Do not us Clorox. It has additives. Plain bleach, I think Walmart calls it Cleaning Bleach. Or check their garden area for any leftover liquid chlorine.

You have automation. You should be able to program it to run the pump (at a low speed) and not have the SWCG on. Check your manual.

- - - Updated - - -

Will you be closing this pool for winter or do you leave it open and rely on freeze protection for the surface equipment?

 

[Dirk]

Awesome, I will get that going tomorrow. Would regular jugs of clorox bleach be ok for this?

That is interesting about the SWCG not generating in the cooler weather, the pool installer never mentioned that. They hooked the system up so that if the pump is on, the SWCG system is on as well. Do you think that is a problem that I should have changed, or does it matter? Thanks for the quick response!!

You really should get some chlorine in the water asap. Personally, I wouldn't wait until tomorrow.

I don't know the Jandy equipment. Is your SWG indicating it's connected? LEDs lit, like that? You should either make sure it is off, set to 0% output, or unplugged. If unplugging it is all you can think to do, be sure you shut down all your power to the system before you yank any wires. That's all last resort, see if it is set to 0% first, before you do anything else. Report back.

Did your PB walk you through any of the equipment use?

 

[Gopokes okc]

HD or Lowes or Walmart may have CYA and liquid chlorine. They do in my area.

Do not us Clorox. It has additives. Plain bleach, I think Walmart calls it Cleaning Bleach. Or check their garden area for any leftover liquid chlorine.

You have automation. You should be able to program it to run the pump (at a low speed) and not have the SWCG on. Check your manual.

- - - Updated - - -

Will you be closing this pool for winter or do you leave it open and rely on freeze protection for the surface equipment?

I’ll have to try to figure out how to shut the SWCG off, and grab that other stuff in the morning.

You really should get some chlorine in the water asap. Personally, I wouldn't wait until tomorrow.

I don't know the Jandy equipment. Is your SWG indicating it's connected? LEDs lit, like that? You should either make sure it is off, set to 0% output, or unplugged. If unplugging it is all you can think to do, be sure you shut down all your power to the system before you yank any wires. That's all last resort, see if it is set to 0% first, before you do anything else. Report back.

Did your PB walk you through any of the equipment use?

I was covered up tonight and can’t get anything done until the morning. Hopefully it won’t mess it up too much. The SWG does show connected and on when the pump is running.

Unfortunately my pool guy didn’t walk me through any of this stuff. He is very old school and doesn’t do any of the automation stuff. Probably my fault for not finding that out up front. He basically put it off on the company that sells him the equipment to show me, and they haven’t been able to come out. I’ve just figured everything out myself so far. It’s a touchy subject around here right now. Haha

 

[Dirk]

I was covered up tonight and can’t get anything done until the morning. Hopefully it won’t mess it up too much.

If you don't get algae, then no harm, no foul. It was more of an "ounce of prevention vs pound of cure..." thing, not a dire prediction. It's cool tonight, right? That'll help ward off the evil algae spirits.

The SWG does show connected and on when the pump is running.

Could you find the setting for the SWG output? My SWG has buttons on it that control that, but they are locked out when the SWG is hooked up to automation. I don't know how the Jandy works. No matter, give the guys a call in the AM and have them walk you through the best way to turn it off (if it's even on). Or call Jandy support and ask them.

 

[Gopokes okc]

Ok, so Home Depot had HDX chlorinating liquid that is 10% sodium hypochlorite. I used “bleach” at 10% in the pool school app and it said to use 1 quart 3 cups and 6 ozs. So I’m going to toss that in. They also had “pool time” brand CYA. The app said to use 3 lbs and 8 ozs. I’m gonna put that in the sock and get started.

Also checked and the SWCG was on standby.

 

[Dirk]

OK, good on the SWG.

Your CYA dose sounds right, but not the chlorine. What settings did you use in PoolMath?

Size?
Both FC columns?
Suggested Goal Level settings?

 

[Gopokes okc]

OK, good on the SWG.

Your CYA dose sounds right, but not the chlorine. What settings did you use in PoolMath?

Size?
Both FC columns?
Suggested Goal Level settings?

The settings were
CYA-0
Current chlorine - 0
Target free chlorine - 3
sanitzer type - bleach
size - 128 oz
Bleach chlorine % - 10

I ran the test again this morning and got .5 for FC, but still no reading for cya. It got all the way to the top of the cylinder and I could still barely see the black dot at the bottom. My socks are still hanging in the pool as it hasn’t all white disolved yet, but it’s close. Another pool builder in the neighborhood came by and told me to go ahead and put salt in the pool and brought me 10 bags. He had me put in 8, and wait 24 hours and test the salt level then.

 

[mknauss]

Will you be closing this pool for winter or do you leave it open and rely on freeze protection for the surface equipment?

I see you added salt. Can you answer the above question?

I would not have added salt this late in the year. The SWCG will not operate below ~60F water temperature. If you drain water to close, you will be draining out the salt you just added.

Take care.

 

[Dirk]

The settings were
CYA-0
Current chlorine - 0
Target free chlorine - 3
sanitzer type - bleach
size - 128 oz
Bleach chlorine % - 10

I ran the test again this morning and got .5 for FC, but still no reading for cya. It got all the way to the top of the cylinder and I could still barely see the black dot at the bottom. My socks are still hanging in the pool as it hasn’t all white disolved yet, but it’s close. Another pool builder in the neighborhood came by and told me to go ahead and put salt in the pool and brought me 10 bags. He had me put in 8, and wait 24 hours and test the salt level then.

It can take a day or more to get a CYA result. If you're sure of your pool's volume, and the amount of CYA you added, don't add any more just now. But your target FC is too low. Once you get to CYA30, your target should be 5 or 6, so use that for now, too. For some reason, Pool Math uses the Now column to establish the FC recommendation. No matter, you use [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] to do that. Have a look. I actually use the low number in the target column as my minimum and then the high number as my target. That gives me a buffer should things go wrong (a super hot day, a lot of swimmers, a dead critter fallen in, whatever). So for CYA 30 the minimum is 2, target is 4-6. I prefer to never let the pool go below 4, and target 6. That way, I never even get close to 2.

Squeeze those socks out. Keep the pump running until you get a CYA test result.

Can I give you a little advice that might help? Don't mix and match advice from multiple sources. (Who was this mystery pool guy that happened along with bags of salt?) It is your pool and, of course, your are free to do with it as you please. But if you want to be successful with your pool using TFPC, then you should ignore what others tell you (PBs, neighbors, pool guys, friends, pool store) and stick with the advice you're getting here. Especially Marty's, he knows his stuff (he was my mentor when I first started learning here, and still is as I continue to). Answer his questions, follow his advice... Give TFP a real shot, and you'll be glad you did.

 

[Gopokes okc]

I see you added salt. Can you answer the above question?

I would not have added salt this late in the year. The SWCG will not operate below ~60F water temperature. If you drain water to close, you will be draining out the salt you just added.

Take care.

I assume we will close it, but want to leave the spa open. Sorry I am a total newbie to pools and got zero help from the installer. So I basically just wasted money on the salt, or did I potentially hurt something?

 

[Gopokes okc]

It can take a day or more to get a CYA result. If you're sure of your pool's volume, and the amount of CYA you added, don't add any more just now. But your target FC is too low. Once you get to CYA30, your target should be 5 or 6, so use that for now, too. For some reason, Pool Math uses the Now column to establish the FC recommendation. No matter, you use [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA] to do that. Have a look. I actually use the low number in the target column as my minimum and then the high number as my target. That gives me a buffer should things go wrong (a super hot day, a lot of swimmers, a dead critter fallen in, whatever). So for CYA 30 the minimum is 2, target is 4-6. I prefer to never let the pool go below 4, and target 6. That way, I never even get close to 2.

Squeeze those socks out. Keep the pump running until you get a CYA test result.

Can I give you a little advice that might help? Don't mix and match advice from multiple sources. (Who was this mystery pool guy that happened along with bags of salt?) It is your pool and, of course, your are free to do with it as you please. But if you want to be successful with your pool using TFPC, then you should ignore what others tell you (PBs, neighbors, pool guys, friends, pool store) and stick with the advice you're getting here. Especially Marty's, he knows his stuff (he was my mentor when I first started learning here, and still is as I continue to). Answer his questions, follow his advice... Give TFP a real shot, and you'll be glad you did.

Ok, I’ve got the pump running and I’ll check the cya again later today and this evening. The socks are getting close to empty now.

I totally understand the mixing and matching advise, I shouldn’t have done that. He’s a builder that’s been doing it since the 70’s so I just went with it. I’ll stick to the info I get here going forward. The chemical thing makes my head spin though. Guess after I get the FC and cya right I can deal with the rest?

 

[Dirk]

Absolutely. If you get stumped (like we all did at first), just ask for help here. You'll get all you need (like we all did at first)!

- - - Updated - - -

PS. Marty will be back to pick up where he left off. But for now, no, you didn't hurt anything by adding salt. You just maybe wasted some.

 

[mknauss]

Dirk is right, no harm with the salt. All water has salt in it. The liquid chlorine you will use at times has salt in it.

I just tried to keep you from wasting it. Part of TFPC is doing it the least cost way also.

If you are keeping the spa open, then you are keeping the pool open. In your area I do believe you get freezing temperatures, sometimes quite a bit below freezing. You will need a plan to protect your surface equipment if you have extended cold temperatures and/or a power failure during those low temperatures.

Take care.

 

[Gopokes okc]

Dirk is right, no harm with the salt. All water has salt in it. The liquid chlorine you will use at times has salt in it.

I just tried to keep you from wasting it. Part of TFPC is doing it the least cost way also.

If you are keeping the spa open, then you are keeping the pool open. In your area I do believe you get freezing temperatures, sometimes quite a bit below freezing. You will need a plan to protect your surface equipment if you have extended cold temperatures and/or a power failure during those low temperatures.

Take care.

Good deal on the salt not hurting, sucks to waste it though.

My automation appears to have a freeze prevention setup on it so I’ll need to get that dialed in I guess.

I checked again just just now and my FC is up to 1, and the CYA is up to 30. The pool math app shows to add 36 oz’s of the liquid chlorine to get up to 3 FC. Does that sound about right? Thanks again for all yall’s help! I’d be going nuts without it.