+1. They are going to balance it and maintain it for a period based on antiquated industry standards. Most have to prove monthly tests at a store to keep the warranty valid and then claim they have the store recommendations at home already. ‘I’ll go right home and add them’ *giggles*. *goes home but does not add them*
New Pool Fill ... What Should I Have on Hand?
- Thread starter Stoopalini
- Start date
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,848
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
In no particular order.
I believe the sequestrant is for plaster dust, but it may be for metal, not sure.
I like your plan for the water, but you are risking your warranty if you do virtually anything to it. I would want to do what you're suggesting (I did, in fact), but I can't actually advise that (my pebble was from a local source, so PebbleTec was not involved). Unless you can get something in writing from the PB that he is OK with your plan. I think that's important. It's an unfortunate situation, especially for someone as pool-savvy as you, but that's the industry. See if the startup guy will work with you. Get the PB behind that, in writing if possible.
Don't be shy with the pump speed. The faster you suck any particulate (plaster dust) into your filter, the less of it will stick to your brand new finish. That's what the 24/7 pumping and multiple-times-a-day brushing is all about. Maybe not top speed, but near the upper end. Especially the first week. I let mine run for a month!
Personally, I wouldn't use tabs at all. Save them for when you need to add a little CYA next year. Especially with that warning about their use from PebbleTec. This is the only time you're going to know that your CYA is 0 (fill water has no CYA), and so be able to accurately dose with granules. That's assuming you verify your water volume with the meter trick. You can't really trust the PBs number, it's common for PB numbers to be even wildly off. Even with a good number, I would suggest you put in, say 75% of your CYA. Give that several days, and then test. It's not hard to overshoot CYA (the test itself is the biggest factor in deviation). If it tests at 75%, then your volume and testing procedure is likely good, so then go to 90%, wait a few days, test again, then top it off. Sneak up on the number to avoid overshooting, while gaining confidence with the test (it's a bear).
Your pH will not be too low. Even if it somehow is from the fill, don't push it up. The pool will do that in short order, like almost immediately. Stock up on acid, don't run out. pH is critical at this point. Any surplus will last (it doesn't go bad, really), and you'll be using that up anyway in the first year. And then some. (Keep those lemonade-looking jugs away from your kids!!)
I'd wait a week to put anybody in, at least. That's more of a rule for plain plaster, but I think there's something to it even for pebble. And even then I'd want an email from the PB saying it's OK to go in (warranty, warranty, warranty, warranty, warranty... getting the theme here?
)
Check on the first allowable use for a vac, too. Different schools of thought on that. And again, more for plaster. Ask your PB to add that to the email! But I'd wait a while anyway, even if he says it's OK.
You already know this: now's the time to spend a little more: money and effort. A little more electricity for the pump. Brush more often than they say. Wait a little longer for "firsts," etc. You won't get a second shot to do this as best as you can...
Did I cover everything? We most differ about the pucks. Do think that through...
I believe the sequestrant is for plaster dust, but it may be for metal, not sure.
I like your plan for the water, but you are risking your warranty if you do virtually anything to it. I would want to do what you're suggesting (I did, in fact), but I can't actually advise that (my pebble was from a local source, so PebbleTec was not involved). Unless you can get something in writing from the PB that he is OK with your plan. I think that's important. It's an unfortunate situation, especially for someone as pool-savvy as you, but that's the industry. See if the startup guy will work with you. Get the PB behind that, in writing if possible.
Don't be shy with the pump speed. The faster you suck any particulate (plaster dust) into your filter, the less of it will stick to your brand new finish. That's what the 24/7 pumping and multiple-times-a-day brushing is all about. Maybe not top speed, but near the upper end. Especially the first week. I let mine run for a month!
Personally, I wouldn't use tabs at all. Save them for when you need to add a little CYA next year. Especially with that warning about their use from PebbleTec. This is the only time you're going to know that your CYA is 0 (fill water has no CYA), and so be able to accurately dose with granules. That's assuming you verify your water volume with the meter trick. You can't really trust the PBs number, it's common for PB numbers to be even wildly off. Even with a good number, I would suggest you put in, say 75% of your CYA. Give that several days, and then test. It's not hard to overshoot CYA (the test itself is the biggest factor in deviation). If it tests at 75%, then your volume and testing procedure is likely good, so then go to 90%, wait a few days, test again, then top it off. Sneak up on the number to avoid overshooting, while gaining confidence with the test (it's a bear).
Your pH will not be too low. Even if it somehow is from the fill, don't push it up. The pool will do that in short order, like almost immediately. Stock up on acid, don't run out. pH is critical at this point. Any surplus will last (it doesn't go bad, really), and you'll be using that up anyway in the first year. And then some. (Keep those lemonade-looking jugs away from your kids!!)
I'd wait a week to put anybody in, at least. That's more of a rule for plain plaster, but I think there's something to it even for pebble. And even then I'd want an email from the PB saying it's OK to go in (warranty, warranty, warranty, warranty, warranty... getting the theme here?
)Check on the first allowable use for a vac, too. Different schools of thought on that. And again, more for plaster. Ask your PB to add that to the email! But I'd wait a while anyway, even if he says it's OK.
You already know this: now's the time to spend a little more: money and effort. A little more electricity for the pump. Brush more often than they say. Wait a little longer for "firsts," etc. You won't get a second shot to do this as best as you can...
Did I cover everything? We most differ about the pucks. Do think that through...
With new plaster your PH will jump around, or at least mine did for 30 or 45 days until things cured
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So I found my PB's procedure in the documentation they provided when I signed.
Start-Up - Occurs within 2 days of the pool being filled with water. They add chemicals and set the pump to run 24/7, and for pebble finishes, they set the cleaner to run for 1-4 hours each day (for non-pebble plaster, they say they don't set the cleaner to run until after 30 days). They require me to brush the pool at least 2x a day for 5-7 days.
FYI: I plan to follow Pebbletec's recommendation and not run the robot cleaner for the 1st 28 days.
Pool School - Occurs 7-10 days after the Start-Up. The tech breaks down the filter and cleans it, balances the chemicals, configures the pump to run a 6-10 hour daily cycle, and they teach me how to operate the equipment.
Maintaining chemistry for warranty purposes - They require the following:
So based on that, I think I am good to stick to the plan I outlined above. And will be good to use 100% non-soft water for the fill and have CH of 300ppm.
I'm sure I can get the water to those specs even before the Start-Up appointment occurs, as it seems to me waiting 2 days after filling with water, to add chlorine and turn the pump on, is too long. It seems like a recipe for algae to start from day 1, doesn't it?
I get I am not like most of their customers, so they have these processes to account for the lowest common denominator ... I'll talk to my construction manager and let him know what I plan to do, and I think he'll be fine with it. We've had some really great discussions on water chemistry already, so he knows I'm learning this stuff fairly quickly.
Start-Up - Occurs within 2 days of the pool being filled with water. They add chemicals and set the pump to run 24/7, and for pebble finishes, they set the cleaner to run for 1-4 hours each day (for non-pebble plaster, they say they don't set the cleaner to run until after 30 days). They require me to brush the pool at least 2x a day for 5-7 days.
FYI: I plan to follow Pebbletec's recommendation and not run the robot cleaner for the 1st 28 days.
Pool School - Occurs 7-10 days after the Start-Up. The tech breaks down the filter and cleans it, balances the chemicals, configures the pump to run a 6-10 hour daily cycle, and they teach me how to operate the equipment.
Maintaining chemistry for warranty purposes - They require the following:
- Chlorine = 1 - 3 ppm
- pH = 7.2 - 7.8
- TA = 80 - 120ppm
- CH = 200 - 400ppm
- CYA = Less than 100
So based on that, I think I am good to stick to the plan I outlined above. And will be good to use 100% non-soft water for the fill and have CH of 300ppm.
I'm sure I can get the water to those specs even before the Start-Up appointment occurs, as it seems to me waiting 2 days after filling with water, to add chlorine and turn the pump on, is too long. It seems like a recipe for algae to start from day 1, doesn't it?
I get I am not like most of their customers, so they have these processes to account for the lowest common denominator ... I'll talk to my construction manager and let him know what I plan to do, and I think he'll be fine with it. We've had some really great discussions on water chemistry already, so he knows I'm learning this stuff fairly quickly.
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Listening to pool school and the nice folks here will keep you at 70-80 and there will never be a need to drain from CYA.
Many pools take several days to fill either because they are huge or have crummy water pressure. Most don’t add half their chlorine as it’s filling. Unless they landed here first.
- Jul 17, 2019
- 3,714
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
It's your pool, but I would seriously re-consider turning on the equipment yourself. If their guy flips the switch and something is broken, its a clear warranty item. If you flip the switch and something is broken, I worry you will get a "What did you do?!" from the PB. The risk is much higher than the reward of getting your pump running ~1 day earlier.
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I definitely don't plan to drain every 1-2 years, LOL. That's been a lot of the conversation with my construction manager ... about using LC or SWCG instead, to avoid the accumulation of CYA and calcium.
My water pressure is a bit over 90PSI
I plan to drop 2 hoses in, and turn the water off to the house while it's filling ha!Ya, good advice. I'll talk to the PB and see what they think. I definitely want transparency with them through this, and feel as long as I can give them a sense of confidence in my knowledge and ability, they'll be fine with it.
FWIW: Here are the actual pages from the book they gave me:
I didn’t touch mine and within 5 minutes of running, the heat pump exploded and blew some sort of sensor off the compressor. I got to yell at the electrician ‘What did you do?’ Not the other way around. It was a mess of finger pointing between the PB, the electrician and Pentair. You know darn tootin well that all 3 would have blamed me if I touched it.
- Jul 17, 2019
- 3,714
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The more logical solution is to bug your PB enough to give you then startup guy's cell phone so you can bug him that it is full, complete with pictures My startup guy showed up a few hours after mine was full so I would stop bugging him.
Good luck with the fill and startup.
My startup guy showed up a few hours after mine was full so I would stop bugging him. Good luck with the fill and startup.
My plaster guy helper put the hose in the spa which would have overflowed and probably dented or stained the plaster
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
So I ran to Walmart today, and they were sold out of anything liquid ... then I ran across to Lowes, and picked up the following:
9 gallons of 10%
1 gallon of 31.5% muriatic acid (they only had 1 gallon left).
And I grabbed a bad of CYA granules, just to have on hand if I need them.
Considering my fill water has 300ppm CH, I think this is all I'm going to need to get started.
9 gallons of 10%
1 gallon of 31.5% muriatic acid (they only had 1 gallon left).
And I grabbed a bad of CYA granules, just to have on hand if I need them.
Considering my fill water has 300ppm CH, I think this is all I'm going to need to get started.
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Oh, and the "born on" date for the chlorine reads "20 209" for all 3 cases (3 gallons per case).
Assuming this is a Julian date, it would be July 28th.
How long can I expect the chlorine to maintain it's strength when stored? Does it matter if it's stored in climate controlled (ie: in the house) vs. out in the 100*F heat (ie: in my shed)?
Assuming this is a Julian date, it would be July 28th.
How long can I expect the chlorine to maintain it's strength when stored? Does it matter if it's stored in climate controlled (ie: in the house) vs. out in the 100*F heat (ie: in my shed)?
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thanks for the heads up. This gallon was actually $7, still more than 2 gallons for $12, but it is 31.5%; so it probably works out to about the same cost per volume/potency as the pool acid stuff.
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just spoke to the pool builder, and he's fine with me doing the initial startup once the pool is full.
He said they'll do the plaster tomorrow, then let it sit overnight, and come back on Wednesday to acid wash it. Then the filling begins.
I'll need to remove the skimmer plugs, insert the baskets and weir doors, fire the pump up to high speed 24/7, and then balance the water.
The construction manager said to add muriatic acid 1st, to bring the TA down from 160 to 100 before worrying about pH. This seems opposite to what I thought though. i thought I'd balance the pH, and let the TA come down on it's own as I add more MA to combat the natural rise of pH. But he said the TA needs to be 90-100 1st thing, even if it means the pH tanking down to the low 6's.
Either way, we are good to go. I'll use the muriatic acid to control the TA and pH, and LC + CYA to sanitize the water. Then on Friday, the tech will come out to do the official start up, where he will install the valve actuators, fill the chlorinator with pucks, add sequenserant, and check water balance. Then pool school will happen some 7 - 10 days afterward.
He said they'll do the plaster tomorrow, then let it sit overnight, and come back on Wednesday to acid wash it. Then the filling begins.
I'll need to remove the skimmer plugs, insert the baskets and weir doors, fire the pump up to high speed 24/7, and then balance the water.
The construction manager said to add muriatic acid 1st, to bring the TA down from 160 to 100 before worrying about pH. This seems opposite to what I thought though. i thought I'd balance the pH, and let the TA come down on it's own as I add more MA to combat the natural rise of pH. But he said the TA needs to be 90-100 1st thing, even if it means the pH tanking down to the low 6's.
Either way, we are good to go. I'll use the muriatic acid to control the TA and pH, and LC + CYA to sanitize the water. Then on Friday, the tech will come out to do the official start up, where he will install the valve actuators, fill the chlorinator with pucks, add sequenserant, and check water balance. Then pool school will happen some 7 - 10 days afterward.
Nice, just remember once you start filling don't stop It seems to take forever.
You will have a pretty pool soon
It seems to take forever. You will have a pretty pool soon
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Nice, just remember once you start filling don't stop
You will have a pretty pool soon
Yep, definitely soon!
The kids start back at school on Thursday, and I was hoping they could swim after their 1st day back to school. Having it filled on Wednesday, but not operational until Fri or Sat, would have been torture for them LOL!
Flying Tivo
TFP Guide
- Jan 24, 2017
- 2,948
- Pool Size
- 7500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I would not worry about TA, just keep Ph in check which is the most importan, which will be already low due to the acid wash. The pump does not need to run full speed, 1200rpms is just fine.
- Jun 8, 2020
- 590
- Pool Size
- 14060
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thanks ... that's my plan. Control the pH (which will naturally rise due to plaster curing and running our waterfall) by adding MA, which will bring the TA down.