New Pool Build

[chrsdmry]

Hello everyone.
We just signed the contract for a new Gunite pool install here in New England. They are starting the dig mid to end of Sept. going to dig, spray Gunite and some pavers and then shutting down end of November until spring of next year where they will spray the pebble tech and hook up the rest of the equipment.
Pool is going to be free form, 20 x 36, 3.5’ to 7’0. 18” spa above pool line emptying into pool, paramount pv3 system (9 heads), 3’ sheer decent waterfall, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair whisper flow pump, jandy fusion soft, Pentair mastertemp heater (400,000btu), jandy rs8 remote automation.

Questions:
PB said I have to go with single speed pump because of in floor cleaner heads popping up with more pressure? I would have rather go with VS pump, but he explained it to me and I just didn’t get it at all what he said any input from you guys on this?

Will send drawings as soon as I can figure out how to post.

Thanks

 

[mknauss]

You can use a VS pump. It will need to run at a higher rate to make the IFCS work. Consider a robot, less electricity.

With a VS pump you can run the high rate a portion of the day to clean and the rest of the time at a lower rate to create your chlorine with the SWCG.

Why not go with all Pentair and use Pentair automation?

 

[chrsdmry]

Thank you. I am thinking about going with all Pentair. Not sure why they are requesting jandy system. Maybe they are used to going with jandy. I like the Pentair much better after reviewing it.
Is it worth going with vs pump? I would guess costs to run would be much better.

 

[mknauss]

With your water features, SWCG, and heater, I believe a VS pump is a very good idea.

Personally, I would reconsider the in floor cleaning system. It is costly to install, costly to operate, and costly to repair.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

Who's idea was the IFCS??? Why do you want one?

I am not a fan of IFCS, but if I did install one, it would be on a separate loop, with its own pump.. This way you could shut it off if you ever wanted too.

The problem for a lot of pools is the IFCS have become integrated into the pool returns, meaning you can't abandon or even just shut the system off.. Troubleshooting very simple problems become complex. With today's robots, having an IFCS is like using an old Rotary-Dial telephone instead of your cell phone.

I suggest seeing if it is possible to run the IFCS from a separate single speed pump and then your pool off of a VS pump.

I would go all Pentair or all Jandy, but not half an half..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[chrsdmry]

Thank you for this information. I decided to go with one as the PB gave me a really good price. Less than 3K. I think if its possible to do what you have suggested and go separate for the pumps. I am looking for the most easiest part of owning a pool and thinking that the IFCS would work out well with the gunite pool. I do have a separate pump for the Polaris 280 that will be running as well. Too much? They haven't started the digging yet and I am open to suggestions. I am more or less liking the IFCS because of the moving around the heated water to prolong the season in New England.

 

[chrsdmry]

If I decide to scrap the IFCS, will the Polaris 280 be sufficient to clean the pool adequately? Pebble Tech is being used on the gunite.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

It is your pool and you should get what you want.. We are just trying to give you our suggestions..

There are much better ways to distribute heated water other than an IFCS.. In your location, I'm sure your pool builder knows all about them.. Just as one example... with a couple of simple valves, you can switch the main drains between suction and pressure, so that when you want heat, it will come out of the main drains and the pool returns.. Simple to fix and works well..

I have never heard of a pool that has both a IFCS and a Polaris 280?? A lot of people here have Polaris pressure side cleaners and like them. I personally like robot cleaners that do not require any pumps to be running to clean the pool. It just depends on the type of pool owner you are..

Just for reference, here is a link to one of a billion robot cleaners...

Again... Don't let us talk you into anything you don't want.. Our job is to just make sure that your pool builder is not pushing you to buy things that often don't make sense.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[chrsdmry]

I appreciate the input Jim, I need to figure this out. Having two pool cleaners doesn't make sense. They are a reputable PB, but I also think they are trying to sell something I don't need. Need to do more research on this.

 

[Rich D]

Whe

I appreciate the input Jim, I need to figure this out. Having two pool cleaners doesn't make sense. They are a reputable PB, but I also think they are trying to sell something I don't need. Need to do more research on this.

Where in NE are you? I have a 2 yr old pool in Massachusetts with a IFCS and would definitely spend the money for it again. Can you pm me who you are using for a PB?

Thanks, Rich .

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

I would follow up with Rich as getting two sides of a story is always better...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Rich D]

You really needed to do your home work on the IFCS and come to you own conclusions on if it might be worth the additional cost. Do a few searches for IFCS and paramount. This has been discussed many times on this forum and there is some great information on both sides out there. My system is called the paramount PVR. It does not have a debris basket or venturi skimmer. Here is my list of bad vs good.

The bad...

-Expensive to purchase and definitely runs up the electric bill.
For me these costs are justified for the work and time it saves me as well as not having to look at a robot or other cleaner in the pool or on the deck.
The robot is now proclaimed to be the cleaner of the future. It cleans better then any suction or pressure cleaner and will brush the pool as well. However it does have its downsides as well.
I can jump in any time without worrying about having a robot in the way, and to be honest If I was a bit short on time and on the fence about jumping in, the extra time and effort to remove and store the robot would be enough to sway me to not jump in.
I have a great view of the pool from inside the house and having any type of cleaner in the pool would certainly have a impact on the view.
The robot would be one more additional daily (or perhaps every few days) maintenance item. If it was not required to run every day then I know I would find myself prolonging putting it in because it would look (clean enough). With the IFCS My pool is pristine every day (with the exception of heavy floating debris days)

- You are putting more holes in something you are trying to keep water tight.
I struggled with this one before deciding to go forward. I searched as many pool sites as I could find to include this one and at the time I could not find one instance of the in floor heads leaking. I have since found just a very few. In the end my justification was that they have been putting holes in pools for a long time now so I would think they have it pretty well figured out. The sealing around the heads is a process done by the same crew all at the same time. I would think I would "Almost" have the exact same chance of getting a leak at a return or main drain as I would at any of the heads.

- Poor skimming capabilities. I have only I skimmer and would really like the surface to be clean all day long. This could be achieved If I were to run the IFCS all day at 3000 rpms. This would be just too costly. So I run it with full suction to the skimmer at 1500 rpms. This does a good job on mid summer light debris days. However in spring and fall on heavy debris days it will not keep it clear. The issue is it does not create the whirlpool affect needed for efficient low speed skimming. I have found that if I pause (pausing the IFCS means it will just stop the zone rotation and stay on the current heads) the IFCS on a particular zone(one that is at the opposite end of the pool then the skimmer) and run it at 2000 rpms for heavy days it will work. Using this method I can also clear the entire surface in about 20 minutes If I am not satisfied with how clean the surface is. The fix for this would be to have a few returns installed that could create the swirl affect when you want to do some low speed skimming. These returns can also be used in the unlikely event you just want to ditch the IFCS and go to a robot. A additional skimmer would be the icing on the cake. If I were to build again I would definitely have the extra returns and additional skimmer.

I have no idea why your PB would say you "Need" a single speed pump for a IFCS. You can achieve the same rpms with a variable speed and it gives you so many more cleaning options.. I would never build without a vs pump.

Running short on time just now but I will post more later.

One other thing to keep in mind is I have only had this system for 2 yrs now so you need to factor that into your ultimate decision. At this point in in time I can say I love my IFCS and would definitely spend the money if I were to build again.

Do you have a lot of trees near by? Are you expecting heavy debris in the pool? Perhaps a pic of the proposed location would help.

 

[Rich D]

Some more home work for you... Ask your builder who does the actual layout design. There is one other current build on here where the OP had a IFCS designed specifically by paramount in a previous pool that worked perfectly. He did the very same with his current build.

 

[Rich D]

Pool is going to be free form, 20 x 36, 3.5’ to 7’0.

Just a FYI on the 7' depth. We originally had a 6' depth because the salesman had assured us that that is plenty for jumping in and the occasional cannon ball. When we received our first plan draft it had "Not A Diving Pool" in big red letters across the top. This really made use stop and consider the depth for safety reasons and whatever legal implications that could have. We changed the design to 8' and It was by far the best decision we made. We had to stretch the pool a bit to accommodate it but the extra cost was well worth it. I can know do a deep dive off my waterfall without issue and would have been very disappointed with a 6' depth.