New member - getting started

Grenademonkey543

Active member
Apr 5, 2019
33
Sacramento, CA
Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have a ~12K gallon pool (non-SWG, cartridge filter, solar heating but isolated for now for winter) here in north California. First time pool owner (since Nov) and have handed off the maintenance to a local pool company for the last 5 months. They report weekly readings and have noticed that since January the pool has been regularly reporting 0 ppm chlorine during their weekly checks. Up until January it was @ 4 ppm. There were two weeks or so in February where chlorine was reported at 3 and 4 (so the pool sort of held it's own for a bit). No *visible* algae that I can see. Periodically the water could get cloudy after some rain.

Company suggested getting a floated and they are using some sort of tablets.

As of January they tested CYA and hardness:

350 ppm total hardness
110 ppm cyanuric acid


Obviously this is quite high and I've asked numerous times regarding the chlorine value. I am not sure if they are measured FC or TC (but most likely the former). Last week they recommended replacing filters (which... were not really looking bad, but nonetheless.. why not). They have also recommended a copper-based product for filling in the weekly chlorine deficiency. That's what prompted me to order my TF100 kit (arriving next week) to sort of get an idea as to what's happening. I'm not too comfortable as many have stated here putting in stuff that normally doesn't go into pools. Plus their ongoing reliance on chlorine tabs has me wondering about that quite high CYA reading from January (which may be even higher... not sure they tested with dilution or not).

We've had quite a bit of rain since end January so I'm hoping CYA dropped from those elevated levels. But if I was to be looking at a water replacement I read that the norm is to drain via sump pump and refill via hose. We have a overflow drain (water-level type) at the deep end. Would I be able to get away with filling from shallow and leveraging that for draining out some of the water? Or is a sump pump a must?

I'm just getting ready for taking things into my own hands. A bit concerned about the costs of purchasing my own chlorine (as I was told that cost would be higher than the copper-based algaecide) in the long run... but then again, if what I read here is true then if i fully switch to my own maintenance I might actually come out to the same monthly costs as current monthly fees for chemical balancing (do my own brushing, skimmer cleaning and whatnot).

Any advice as to first things first and how to handle addressing any findings with my current pool maintenance? They are great folks but I appreciate they have to work with the reality of touching the pool once a week but I'd like to have numbers a bit more in line with what everyone recommends here.
 
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Welcome to the forum!
Great job on ordering a quality test kit. Did you order the SpeedStir too? If not, email TFTestkits now and see if they can add it to your order. Makes testing far easier and more accurate.

Do not let the pool service add any copper based products. They will lead to staining, turning blonde hair green, etc. And it is not needed.

With a steady diet of trichlor (tablets) your CYA is most likely elevated. When you get your test kit, post up a full set of test results. I would suggest you add 5 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine/bleach every day until you get your test kit and get some real numbers. And remove the tablets.

Can you put a city in California the pool is located? Depends on if you are in Mammoth Lakes or Brawley. Also filling out a signature really helps us help you. See ours for examples.

I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.
 
WOW! Your pool company is trying to take you to the cleaners, so to speak. Selling you on new filters when you might not need them, adding problematic copper (but hey, later on they'll sell you the cure for its staining!) is smarmy.

Just adding copper does not make a pool sanitary. Sure it may kill algae or help you avoid algae but algae by itself isn't harmful like bacteria, viruses and other cooties are, which is what the chlorine is for.

Yet they've jacked up your CYA so high that it just about makes your chlorine ineffective unless kept at an equally high level.

Your choice of a test kit is an excellent one, and you probably have a bit of draining and refilling of water in your future, but we can help you manage this pool and make it sparkle like its never done before! A much less cost too <whew!>.

Get the test kit and run a full panel. Then tell us:
FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

and we'll help guide you from there.

Maddie :flower:
 
A bit concerned about the costs of purchasing my own chlorine

It won't be as much as you think. You will probably go through about 8-10 gallons or so of 10% per month during the hot months. That'll work out to about $30-$40 per month. That's probably about the same as a single bottle of the magic potion stuff they sell at pool $stores. Off-season chlorine consumption will be much less. If your CYA is as high as initial tests indicate, you'll need to drain down 60%. WAIT for your own test results and post here. You may find the number reported to you is inaccurate.

Start thinking about what you're gonna do with 7000 gallons of water. Check pool draining requirements for your local area. Some areas require you drain to storm drains, some to sewer, some don't care, and some don't allow it all. Google "City of xxxx swimming pool draining discharge" and you should get some results for your area.

For now, get some bleach (liquid chlorine) into your pool to avoid algae.

Best of luck!
 
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Thank you all for the support.

I am always of the approach that the root cause should be solved, not symptoms treated so i am happy to find a place such as TFP that shares this approach and has such a supportive community. I will post results as soon as get the kit!

I have taken out the floater a few days back and will respect/humor the request of the maintenance company to not add anything so that they can see if the new filters improved anything without altering too many variables (i have a suspicion it did not). As soon as they're in testing in a few days, I should have my kit the day after and start working on it myself!

I was looking at this as a liquid chlorine source: Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid - Walmart.com seems to come out the cheapest so far per % of sodium hypochlorite.
 
Welcome to the forum!
Great job on ordering a quality test kit. Did you order the SpeedStir too? If not, email TFTestkits now and see if they can add it to your order. Makes testing far easier and more accurate.

Do not let the pool service add any copper based products. They will lead to staining, turning blonde hair green, etc. And it is not needed.

With a steady diet of trichlor (tablets) your CYA is most likely elevated. When you get your test kit, post up a full set of test results. I would suggest you add 5 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine/bleach every day until you get your test kit and get some real numbers. And remove the tablets.

Can you put a city in California the pool is located? Depends on if you are in Mammoth Lakes or Brawley. Also filling out a signature really helps us help you. See ours for examples.

I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.

I certainly got the speedstir! I ended up going for the TF bundle - so am very much looking forward to trying out the wall whale brush as well (mine is fine but hey... marketing looking promising for it :) not sure how much is a gimmick from all that. The skimmer angel is an OK addition I guess, I didn't care much for it - but it would be nice to have something other than rocks to hold down the basket with. I did also get the digital ph meter, but based on reading opinions of it after the fact that might have been an extra thing to have. Ah well, we'll see.
 
Kit came in today!

So here are the results (one day after pool company came in and added X ammount of what looked like powdered chlorine into the skimmer area).


FC - 5.5 (11 drops of R0871)
CC - 0 (liquid never stopped being clear)
CH - 350 (14 drops of R0012)
TA - 80 (8 drops of R009)
CYA (man... this one took many tries):
undiluted - 90-100
Diluted (filled 20 ml of pool water and another 20 ml of tap, then poured the mixture up to the bottom of label) - 80-90ish.

pH - 7.2-ish? Have the digital meter, will try tomorrow.

So... looking at the chart, went and bought some Walmart 6% bleach (their 10% pool chlorine was from July 2018!!!) and as per PoolMath poured the full gallon into the pool to bring up FC up to 10-10.5. Not sure how I'll keep measuring a minimum FC of 7 if the basic kit only goes up to 5.5-6 i think. Tough decisions regarding draining now I guess to reduce CYA as there's no more rain in the near future :/ Thoughts from anyone?

Regarding their zero chlorine reading, if CC came back at 0, should I still be concerned about excessive loss or do the OCLT to figure out if I should SLAM or not.


In any case, excited to start tracking and looking forward to hearing your thoughts! Thank you
 
Use the FAS-DPD, R0870 and R0871 reagents for the FC test. Use a 10 ml sample. The OTO (same color matching thing as the pH) is rarely used.

I am concerned on the CYA level. Unless you have a SWCG, you really should consider draining 30% or so of your water and fill with fresh. Did the pool builder really put that much CYA in the pool?? Or is this not a new pool?
 

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I guess i will have to do that until i drop the CYA to ensure I maintain the appropriate FC.

The pool is about 15 years old. I think it's the trichlor tabs the pool company started using around November (not sure what the CYA was before them). No SWCG present - I agree, it's quite high.

Regarding draining/filling - do you think i can take advantage of the water-level overflow? ANother alternative is using the hose-bibs from the solar pipes, but that would mean buying another hose :(
 
You should always use the FAS-DPD test. The OTO test, color match, is not accurate. It is a 'yes or no' there is chlorine in the water.

Are you in an area of Davis that has a high water table? Some of that area is near the Delta, right? You may want to be careful draining.

You can use the auto fill but it will be slow. You will need a hose for the sub pump you will use to drain the pool.
 
Oh .. that's good to know! Might need to proactively-stock up on reagents based on usage.

Regarding the auto-fill, I was actually thinking of putting a hose in from the city supply and letting the overflow plumbing (Which i guess should go to the sewer system) take care of the increase water level. I am not sure though how effective that will be (if I fill with cold water at the shallow end and the overflow is at the deep end, I hope that may optimize things a bit).

Not certain about water tables - but i would definitely opt for the safe route and do a simultaneous drain and refill.
 
You can exchange some water without draining.

If you place a low volume sub pump in the deep end and pull water from there while adding water in the shallow end (through a skimmer or into a bucket on a step so you lessen the water disturbance) you can do a fairly efficient exchange. That is assuming the water you are filling with is the same temperature or warmer than your pool water. If your fill water is much cooler than your pool water, then switch it. Add the water to the deep end (hose on bottom) and pull water from the top step.

The location of the pump and fill hose may change if you have salt water, high calcium, etc.
In my pool, with saltwater and high calcium when I drain, I put the pump in the deep end and hose in shallow end. The water in the pool weighs more per unit volume than the fill water from the hose.

Be sure to balance the water out and water in so the pool level stays the same. Also be sure your pool pump is disabled during this process. Once started do not stop until you have exchanged the amount of water you wish.
 
Most pools consume between 2-4 ppm of FC per day during the swim season. Less on the shoulder seasons.
 
Hi all,

Quick update thus far. I've tried doing a water exchange - not sure how efficient it was, but I think my CYA dropped from wherever it was to ~ 70-80. I have been maintaining FC around 10 ppm, however notice loss of 2-4 ppm per day... which I guess is normal. Bright side, i dropped my CH from 350 to 275 and my TA is around 90 (was at ~ 80 before... but this might just be a testing error).

Furthermore, for sanity check i performed an OCLT (between 22:30 till 06:15) and saw a drop of 0.5 PPM in FC which should be good too.

I think i will keep chlorinating for as per PoolMath now and won't touch the pool with refills any more this season (CYA levels do not influence FC consumption, just raise your baseline, correct?). If this is the case, might wait it out until end of season and then let the rains take care of the rest throughout next winter (and since i'll be avoiding the trichlor pucks, this strategy should hopefully work out nicely as well with ever so slow CYA burnoff).
 
You can operate at that level CYA. Just be sure to get your sample for pH testing when the FC is 10 ppm or less.

You are correct, your FC consumption should not be appreciably higher. Just the target level.
 
~ 1 month update.

So far it's been an easy and enjoyable journey. The chlorine consumption is indeed on the higher end (4-5 ppm/day) but we do get 3/4 sun exposure every day + I run the solar loop for ~ 5 hours or so (I am not sure if UV exposure penetrates the rubber tubing there). OCLT shows ~ 0.5 ppm loss so I don't think I am in need of a SLAM process as of now.

I go through about 64-80 oz of 10% (or whatever it drops down to as I store it) a day to maintain 10-11 ppm FC based on my CYA (which seems to be closer to 80). Definitely not sure there is much cost savings right now compared to the pool company, but at least I am 100% aware what my pool is doing and am certain it is always safe to swim in.

Thank you all - this resource is truly amazing. Nothing horrible happened yet since I took over the pool maintenance and so far it looks and feels great when we use it.
 

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