New Member, First Build...What have we gotten into?

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What a frustrating day! The electrician was out here by about ten after 8:00 this morning. He never does anything more than the minimum needed to allow the other crews to keep moving forward. In this case he needed to move some lights and wiring that were in the way of the chimney. He asked me all about the outlets for the outdoor kitchen and then didn't do any of that. I did tell him that we had changed our minds and now wanted an outlet in the middle of the brick inset on the fireplace. He reminded me that I already told him we didn't want that and I said I know but, now we do. I could tell he wasn't going to do it so, I called the project manager and told him that we wanted it if it could be done. The PM made sure it happened.

I was then surprised to see a couple of the stone crew show up. They started cutting the roof for the fireplace and I got concerned. I've been told for a couple weeks now that the carpenters would be out to cut the roof and box it in for the chimney. When the stone guys started doing it, I started watching them like a hawk. I was expecting temporary bracing to be put up to support the rafters while they cut them. Then I was expecting them to tie the cut rafters into a header run out to the uncut rafters which would be sistered to carry the additional load...ahem, no. They just built up stone under each rafter and then cut it off. I kinda freaked! I tried to call the PM but he didn't answer (have I ever mentioned that he doesn't accept voice mail?). Then I sent him a text saying I was very concerned. Then I tried calling him five more times.

The PM called me back about an hour later and I told him why I was concerned. He said the carpenter was supposed to be out here; I said he wasn't. He asked me to send him a picture and he would call the guys and find out what was going on. I went out and took a picture and fired it off. He called me back about 20 minutes later and said it all looked correct to him. He said that is how they always do it; the fireplace carries the load and when the stone is done, they will install ties between the rafters to attach the sheeting. If you are a framer or a builder, I would like to hear what you think of this technique. I really don't know what to think. Below are two pictures of the fireplace. The first shows what it looked like before they started today, the second shows how they supported the load. There is a 3x3x1/4" angle in there that may not be visible.

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

I also grabbed a couple pics of the stone work around the lounging area. It turned out pretty nice. They still need a few more sections of tile at one end.

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

The PM is supposed to be bringing out a sample of the poured countertops next week. I told him that if they couldn't make exactly what we wanted, I needed to know so we could find someone who could. He came up with the idea of doing a sample first. They actually make them in the shop instead of on site. Overall, I've been pretty happy with the pace of the work the last few weeks. I don't think we will be done by the end of October, perhaps November though.

Bob
 
I'm not a carpenter. But hubby worked as one in the 80's. I asked him if that was to code. Now unless codes have gotten a lot laxer in the last 30 years. His answer was "oh (insert word that rhymes with duck) No! Best picture can find online refers to opening for a skylight but the framing principle is the same. I have a framing book back at home I can check too if you need. (I am out shooting pool tonight).

hb132QA01-01_lg.jpg


The seating area looks great from both sides though!
 
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Ok Bob....I don't know where to begin. This is exactly what I knew what would happen when, what a month ago now, ....anyway, you know where I'm going.

First off...they should not of even cut the raters in the first place, much better to brick thru and around...IF, your carrying the stone THRU the roofline for aesthetic purposes. All they had to do is cut the decking for Christ's sake. Post Edit...what kind of chimney is it...is it fire brick or aluminum flue? if it's fire brick they might have had to cut the rafters.....(in which case I would have talked you out of it from the jump :cool:)

After the framing fiasco, (in which they didn't rough this chimney in on the bldg. rough in) I would've had them bring the chimney up to the finished ceiling, stop, and only carry the chimney flue thru the roofline, put a nice spark arrestor and chimney cap on it and call it a day. If it's an aluminum flue chimney. Which, I would have used above diagram in the above post if and only if a rafter needed to be cut to clear the flue. If they did this, you only need a chase to penetrate the decking which allows standoff of the flue.

They need to tie off the rafter ends and build support back to the stone so the decking can have some support under it. Geeeeeez. I don't even know where to go with this. Just make sure they use hangers on the rafter ends and the box rafter they're hanging on

Who is going to do the flashing around the chimney stone? I hope these guys aren't doing it.
 
Here is where we stand today....slow progress but we are moving forward. Workers were supposed to come out today to clean up and drain the pool and get ready for plaster next week (I will believe it when I see it). No workers yet and rain in the forecast. But still.....

Things left to do for the pool builder:
1) Brick to get inlaid / inset on the fireplace 2) Brick to get put on floor of fireplace 3) Cap to get put on top of chimney 4) flashing to be completed on roof around chimney 5) Stone (s) to be removed from right side of arch and replaced (Project Manager said this without us saying a word to him) 6) counter top to be installed on outdoor kitchen area 7) appliances to be installed and hooked up 8) steps to be finished w/ flagstone 9) pillars/columns to be finished w/ woodwork caps 10) pillars / columns to be caulked around stone 11) tongue and groove ceiling finished and rewiring of light fixtures and light fixtures & fan installed 12) pavilion stained 13) swale dug 14) backfill brought in 15) irrigation rerun 16) fix the pipes that were broken that bring water to the horses water tanks 17) plaster & everything related to finishing the pool (pipes, skimmers caps etc.) 18) finish the hook up and installation of equipment including the Easy Touch 19) foam inserts pulled up between deck and coping and replaced with mastic 20) river rock brought in to fill the run outs and planter areas, trim rebar and remove wooden stakes 21) all the other things that I have momentarily forgotten but seem like a long list

Things left to do for K & B:
1) figure out how to temporarily fix the fencing 2) Let the dogs out to run 3) get bids on landscaping 4) tell the patio furniture people they can deliver the furniture 5) drink

I finally sat in the spa today - the water was low enough I could get in and believe it or not - the flagstone coping is actually comfortable. I thought it might be uncomfortable and hitting the back of my neck but it was perfect for sitting in the hot tub and resting my head back on the flagstone and looking up at the sky. I also determined that the caps around the pillars are wide enough to support beer cans and the perfect height to lean on and rest your elbows/arms.

Some pics of the fireplace with chimney through the roof
Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr
 
That framing isn't going anywhere unless the fireplace shifts and takes it with it.

I assume there is a flue pipe or something so that beam running through the fireplace won't catch on fire?
 
I didn't see any flashing either. Is there a "header" going through the fireplace? All I saw was the three rafters being supported by superficial rock, and nothing structural. I would want it framed in, but I have snow loads to deal with occasionally; you may not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Glock said:
I stopped reading after this. You should lead with these important tidbits next time. :cheers:
Click to expand...

Duly Noted!

Beadedbiker said:
Also, you should reorder your list in order of importance. I would start with item 5).
Click to expand...

Good point. If I start with #5, 1-4 may not matter.

Beadedbiker said:
Also on a scale of 1 to all. How many football games are you intending on watching whilst in the spa...

(Asking the important questions)
Click to expand...

Ahh, so you noticed the line of sight from the spa to the newly added outlet on the fireplace....there is probably some advice somewhere that says to limit your time in a hot tub to so many minutes - but we'll see how many quarters of a football game I will last.

For those of you who noticed the flashing - you're right it's not on yet. It's on the to do list. They didn't put up any additional headers but the thought process is that the support is actually stronger with the rafter tails (about 4") going through the fireplace. The flue does go around the beams so no burning of the wood.

I brought my dad over to inspect. He's a retired general contractor who followed up that career as the Chief Code Administrator for both residential and commercial buildings in S. Florida (think hurricanes). Granted, he's now 78 and showing signs of early dementia but a daughter still trusts her dad :). With that said, the spa does lie outside of the covered area - so if I am in the spa watching football games and the pavilion comes down - hopefully it will lean towards the other outer edge (away from me).
 
The project is looking better and better everyday. That fireplace (hearth) is mammoth. It looks like the masons really came through with all the stone work. In looking at Bob's list of remaining work, you should be done in about 4 weeks hopefully
 
cwescapexlt4x4 said:
Coming along nicely but just seems that the cut in just isn't "right" nor supported for poor weather and later age.
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I agree, it is not properly supported right now. It is my understanding that when the carpenters come back out, they are going to block in around the chimney to support the sheeting and roof. I will not allow them to close in the ceiling until I am satisfied that the proper structure is in place. It does seem to me that they will have to pull back the sheeting that surrounds the chimney to gain access and place the jack rafters that will run along side the stone. I will try to get some pics when they do that work.

We had a few storms here over the past several days so no work has been done since last Wednesday. The ground is now dry enough to work so there is supposed to be a crew coming out tomorrow.

Bob
 
Not a lot to report. Several beautiful days gone by without workers but we had them for 3 days out of the last week. Our project manager is "out of town" on another job so we expect to see workers come back once he's back which is fine by us - he actually has a critical eye and expects as much out of the craftsmanship as we do so at least when we point things out to him, it's usually not an argument. It just takes awhile because of how busy he is.

Stone masons finished the fireplace (brick herringbone pattern, and put cap on chimney). They still need to replace some stone in the archways, chip the overhang away on the upper step, outside edge and finish the 1x1 tile over by the lounging area. But I am so happy with the fireplace.

Chimney Cap (and trim work on the columns - this trim work is actually okay)
Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Herringbone Pattern
Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Inspiration Photo
Photo_Video_1476114504_medium by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Upper Step with flagstone extended that will be chipped off (they did this to match the pattern of the other flagstone, but we think it will look better with an even edge to the step)
Untitled by Ranger_Bob, on Flickr

Carpenters did a terrible job at the finish work so we took pictures and sent to the project manager - which is why he is coming out on Friday. At this point, since we are so far past the date I had hoped to see this completed, I told Bob, I'm not compromising on anything. The carpenters boxed out the chimney, but still need to do the flashing. They finished the tongue and groove on the ceiling, started putting stain on the pillars (dropped stain on the concrete which still has to get fixed). We still need a counter installed along with all of the appliances. They cleaned up the yard, it took 2 tries.

The heated discussion this week was around the plaster. Initially we were told diamondbrite, then 4 months ago when Bob started talking to the PB about the plaster he said stonescapes. I said, really? the contract was pretty generic about an upgrade to an Hawaiian aggregate but the PB gave us Stonescapes samples to choose from. This week the Project Manager said it wasn't in the contract. So we asked the office girl (remember her?) to provide us a breakdown of what the cost was for "standard" finish, what the actual upgrade cost was to the Hawaiian aggregate and then what the additional upgrade is to the Stonescapes and then what the added cost is for the abalone shells. The PB offered to stain the DiamondBrite black (the color we are going with) but then later agreed it won't work with the dark colors and we won't be happy with it. (That was a non starting option for me anyway and although it sounds like he might be steering us to the Stonescapes I agreed with this logic). So now that I feel we have spent just about the same amount of money it probably cost to build our house 10 years ago....we're going with the Stonescapes mini pebble black with abalone shell. Thanks to all the TFP'ers who responded to my PM's about the colors and giving me tips about the abalone shells. I told Bob, I really, really want those. At this point, I can't see getting all this way and not finishing it with what I had always expected from the beginning - well or convinced myself I could get comfortable having. (I really wanted Pebble Tec but our PB doesn't work with any Pebble Tec installers so I settled for Stonescapes)

Still a ton to do - and we really can't see the plaster going down until all the other things are finished but the initial plan by the Project Manager is "next week"...6.5 months and counting. Original project timeline: 3 months. We are tracking close to Martin Kennedy's estimates (2x whatever you are told) - Karen
 
So stunning....

I wish I could provide insight on the plaster, as that was one of our easiest decisions. We saw Ryno's pool in person, and said, "We want that!". Like yours, our PB doesn't work with Pebbletec, so it would be a very big upcharge to find a sub that would do it for us, as far out from DFW as we are.

I agree at this point you shouldn't settle for something less this far into it and with the amount of money you've invested.

Can't wait to see it all done...it will be a show stopper for sure.
 

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