new house, new pool, first opening

[old_and_busted]

Hi all,

Two week lurker, first time poster.
I've done some things wrong already and some things right, hopefully the TFP gods will be merciful and generous with their advice.

I have just bought a house and initially wanted to outsource the pool for the first season since I have a long list of things to get accomplished.
(I think I put my pool details in sig, but ~25,000gal plaster/concrete)

• I hired a pool company to open the pool,
  • they suggested I replace a 30yo brass always-on pump and a sand filter with a cartridge and and intelliflo vs+svrs.
    • this was agreeable to me for safety feature (single drain on my very old pool) and power consumption, and locally I have rebates
    • cartridge filter seemed like it would ultimately waste a lot less water vs backwashing the sand, and filter more finely
    • that's now installed and running, so post-hoc criticism of this choice I will submit to as penance, but I can't undo it and it would only make me feel bad.
• They got everything going and sold me a big package of BioGuard I didn't need, which I read this forum in between that purchase and now, before even using a single tablet or cal-hypo pack, and am now attempting to return unused (wish me luck)
• They did open the pool using a shock product I didn't write down the name of, and old tablets from previous owner in the skimmers. Those are now mostly dissolved.
• The tested the water at that time using a 1200v fas-dpd multitest and had mostly acceptable parameters, from hazy memory
  • 180 hardness
  • 7.6 Ph
  • 50-60alkalinity (? not 100%)

Now here is the sequence of events since that opening, after reading this forum and reading about the BioGuard poo they sold me, I've now decided to do this myself:

• The pool improved in color for three days, but didn't improve in clarity.
• The previous owner appeared to have left the pool open and unmaintained into late autumn before last-season closing,
  • I leaf-skimmed literal pounds of leaves off the bottom during this time
• I brushed as well
• I vacuumed and got more small leaf matter
• Then I read this forum really a lot and decided to do the SLAM using liquid chlorine.
• I started that process and noted the Ph was very low,
  • my TF100/digital Ph isnt here yet
  • the strips I am using show <6.8 reliably, the Phenol Red test shows < 7.1 reliably.
  • I understand Ph isn't reliably during slamming but from everything I've read, It should skew _higher_ than normal if adding liquid chlorine with Ph of 13.
• test strips also show 40 alkalinity, 0 CYA. I do have a black dot CYA test from another kit I have lying around and that also confirms low CYA.
  • test strip other results:
  • 250 hardness
  • > 10TC
  • > 10FC
  • <40 CYA
• Yesterday I added 8lbs borax and 3lbs baking soda to work on Ph, test strips show no change.
  • The calculator calls for 27 lbs of borax if the Ph is actually 6.5
  • I don't know what the Ph actually is so I hedged my bets here, but have seen no change on strips or Phenol Red test
• I also added 1lb of dry CYA in a sock and that has been dissolving very slowly, like hardly at all unless I squeeze the sock.
  • The calculator calls for 4lbs
  • I hedged my bets in case there is a delayed load from the tablets, and also I don't have a sock big enough for 4 lbs of CYa.
• OCLT this morning showed 10FC --> 3FC while I slept (i didn't intend to let it drop, I just left that house at 8pm and didn't get back til 7AM, so i guess that counts as OCLT right?)

Other observations:

• General water quality is blue/teal but cloudy. Drifts of pollen on the floor of the pool, don't think it's mustard algae, not on the walls.
  • I can see light/dark on the floor of the shallow end that gets distrubed when I use brush or leaf rake (pollen?)
  • I can't see the tool I'm using when it's on the floor of the shallow end.
  • I can't see anything at all in the deep end, including the bottom of the ladder.
• Suspect previous owner used lots of copper, think I see a blue stain near return jet.
• previous owner mentioned he had flocced it , attempting to open before the house changed hands. I don't think that was ever vaccuumed to waste.
  • I don't think I have the capability to vacuum to waste with my current setup? I did vacuum normally as stated.
  • this sucks
• I have worked really hard to try to clear leaf debris off the deep end, but I can't see it and don't really know how well I've done.
  • I can no longer bring up huge scoops of leaves, the leaf rake gets 1-2 occasionally, most deep-end rakes bring up nothing now.
  • The vaccuum only partially filled the pump basket with bits last time I did it.

Here is are my questions and comments:

• Should I keep trying to bump PH up while I SLAM?
• I would like to continue to SLAM while I wait for the test kit if at all possible to not have wasted the chlorine so far. Should I abandon and write it off as learning experience until test kit in hand? (Not sure how many days out it is, post office has sucked lately in my area though and it's coming USPS)
• I apologize in advance for posting this without proper TF100/Taylor reagent results in hand.
• I understand that accurate test results are the cornerstone of pool maintenance.
• I am wondering if such a low Ph is an urgent corrosion issue or affecting the slam and I should be dumping borax or soda ash even before I have the kit in hand.

Thanks, be kind if possible, but all useful criticism is welcome.

 

[ajw22]

"They" did not do you any favors.

• Should I keep trying to bump PH up while I SLAM?

No. Stop fooling with your pH. pH tests are invalid at high FC levels.

• I would like to continue to SLAM while I wait for the test kit if at all possible to not have wasted the chlorine so far. Should I abandon and write it off as learning experience until test kit in hand? (Not sure how many days out it is, post office has sucked lately in my area though and it's coming USPS)

Add 5 ppm of liquid chlorine to your pool daily until you get your TF-100 test kit. That will keep your water from backsliding.

• I am wondering if such a low Ph is an urgent corrosion issue or affecting the slam and I should be dumping borax or soda ash even before I have the kit in hand.

We don't know what your real pH is. Once you get your TF-100 do the FAS/DPD chlorine test and see what your FC level is. If your FC is below 10 then do the pH test. If above 10 then stop adding liquid chlorine until the FC is below 10 and you can do a good pH test. At that point post a full set of test results and we will see what the next steps are...

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

 

[IceShadow]

Without reliable test results you are flying blind. Wait for your kit before you try to adjust anything. Add chlorine while you wait (5ppm a day) but otherwise hold fast until you can post some reliable numbers.

 

[old_and_busted]

Thanks for the advice @IceShadow @ajw22. I will wait. Chlorine drop was not noticeable on the crappy tests overnight and clarity has improved.

 

[IceShadow]

Once you get the good test kit (Taylor K2006C or TFT-100) post up your numbers and we can help further as needed. Without that somewhat accurate CYA test, you can't even be sure what FC level you're targeting. And you don't want to far overshoot SLAM level FC and damage any equipment or anything.

 

[old_and_busted]

FC 5
CC 5.5
TA 100
CH 250
CYA 30
PH 7.1-7.2 by uncalibrated meter, will redo later, its 44F and my hands were freezing off

1. pool looks much clearer, can see shallow to bottom now, can't see tools at bottom of deep end yet.
2. overall numbers look good, seems like a good time to get the rest of the borates in and go up to 50ppm once i finish SLAMing, based on the PH
3. added enough bleach this morning to get up to 12FC based on this test
4. gonna test for copper based on the blue staining around return

Other thoughts?

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Hey there- Just to let you know that 160ounces of 10% Liquid Chlorine will give you 5ppm. Add that daily and brush while you wait for your test kit to arrive.

Check out PoolMath for help with chemical additions. I just used the old web version page found at the bottom of this on my computer, but there is also an APP you can download for your phone.

PoolMath

Discover the calculator behind the perfect pool, PoolMath. Dealing with pools has allowed TFP to become the original authors of the best calculator on the net.

www.troublefreepool.com

PoolMath

www.troublefreepool.com

Maddie

 

[IceShadow]

FC 5
CC 5.5
TA 100
CH 250
CYA 30
PH 7.1-7.2 by uncalibrated meter, will redo later, its 44F and my hands were freezing off

1. pool looks much clearer, can see shallow to bottom now, can't see tools at bottom of deep end yet.
2. overall numbers look good, seems like a good time to get the rest of the borates in and go up to 50ppm once i finish SLAMing, based on the PH
3. added enough bleach this morning to get up to 12FC based on this test
4. gonna test for copper based on the blue staining around return

Other thoughts?

Are these numbers from your TFT-100?

 

[amwillg]

I have just bought a house and initially wanted to outsource the pool for the first season since I have a long list of things to get accomplished

As you settle into the season and get better/faster at the day to day, you'll find that the time you invest in your pool will more than pay for itself in water quality and saved dollars and less heartache.

that's now installed and running, so post-hoc criticism of this choice I will submit to as penance, but I can't undo it and it would only make me feel bad.

I don't think you'll find anyone criticizing those equipment choices. Variable speed pump not only gives more options for varying flow speeds based on what you want to accomplish, but a VSP running slower 24/7 will save a lot of money in the long run vs a single speed that runs 24/7. Many people switch from sand to cartridge, or from cartridge to sand; it is personal preference and both will work fine in most all pools. Cartridge size seems just fine for the pool size to help keep you from having to clean the filters too often.

If they didn't install a valve before the filter that lets you vacuum to waste, that would be something to look into. Would save you a lot of filter cleaning, especially during opening or a SLAM.

 

[old_and_busted]

Are these numbers from your TFT-100?

yes sir

 

[old_and_busted]

The numbers today are

FC 8.5, boosted back to 12 based on poolmath calc
CC 0
TA 110
Ph 7.5
CYA 30
CH 250

I added a few pounds of calcium chloride. building an aerator to do the acid+aeration to get TA lower.

pool looks really good, now.

beginning of slam April 27:

today:

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Making headway! Keep going.... it takes patience once its all blue but you want gin-clear water and sanitary water.

Maddie