New Hot Tub Owner. Lot to Learn

[mayberry32]

Liquid chlorine is simply bleach with a higher residual of sodium hypochlorite. Chemically the same wxcept for the strength. That's the difference. The salt system manufactures the sodium hypochlorite "on site". They are the same chemical. Salt is a wonderful way to go for your tub. Based on all your postings you need that system. You will love it, especially when used with the Aqua Clarity Weekly Maintenance. They are synergistic with one another. Great combo. You can go away for weeks with zero issues for a covered hot tub.

That’s what I’m looking for. I ordered a small tub of awesome for future purges and a bottle of Aqua Clarity. I believe I ordered them off Amazon and they should be here today or tomorrow. I plan on starting to use the aqua clarity immediately.

Only reason I did not order the salt system was because it was an extra $1000 and the salt cartridge have to be changed every four months. That just seems so different from my pool, I thought I should probably give the manual chlorine shock. That frog system seemed very promising, but my chlorine was constantly rising up to 6 or 8, even at the lowest setting. And it is nothing more than Dichlor and metals , the more I learned, so keeping my CYA in check would have been impossible.

Testing this morning, my chlorine, it was much lower than I anticipated. Added last night after using it, and this morning it was 1.5. So I should have used a little more bleach.

But, the alkalinity is now down to 70 after lowering my pH several times and letting it naturally rise. My pH is back to 7.8. My calcium is still at 200, where the frog system told me to get it too early on. So, my water is not soft at all, but it’s causing no issues or rash or anything like that. And that’s coming from someone with pasty Nordic skin that breaks out easily! So, I am good for now, it seems. I just have to figure out the actual rise in Chlorine for every 10ml of liquid bleach.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

You will not need the Frog System when using Aqua Clarity. You only need the chlorine. Doesn't matter if it is Dichlor or liquid. Both are great. If you have not purged as yet you MUST purge before adding the weekly dose of Aqua Clarity. Get a good bottle for dilution. Do not use a milk or water jug For the Aqua Clarity. Follow the instructions. You will love it and your annual cost for chlorine and the AC will be under $100.00-$125.00.

 

[mayberry32]

You will not need the Frog System when using Aqua Clarity. You only need the chlorine. Doesn't matter if it is Dichlor or liquid. Both are great. If you have not purged as yet you MUST purge before adding the weekly dose of Aqua Clarity. Get a good bottle for dilution. Do not use a milk or water jug For the Aqua Clarity. Follow the instructions. You will love it and your annual cost for chlorine and the AC will be under $100.00-$125.00.

I have purged with Ahhsome a few weeks ago.

And dang. I just used a gallon water for the mixture. I’ll change it out tomorrow to another jug. I just have to find a better jug to use.

As for the chlorine, I’m seeing inconsistency with the bleach and it’s making me mad. Yesterday, 40 ml added around 3ppm. This morning, the same amount seems to have added online half that much.

 

[mayberry32]

Wow. Ran the aqua clarity through it earlier and just got in. Foam everywhere. I’m scooping it out, but how long does that last when using the aqua clarity? I purged really well with Ahhsome just under 2 weeks ago.

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

How much diluted Aqua Clarity did you add? Excessive foaming means your water is softer and yiu can use less per week. This is a good thing. Decay rates of sanitizer are all over the place. Just like people, some eat more than others. A variety of things can influence the amount of sanitizer your water will demand. If you purge periodically, maintain cyanuric acid between 30-40 ppm, monitor the pH and Total Alkalinity weekly or bi-weekly, you will be golden. No need to purge again before you begin with the Aqua Clarity since you recently purged. You need to find a gallon jug that was used for bleach, windshield washer solution or vinegar. Rinse it out and use that for the AC. The bottom of the jug will have a recycling number 2 in the triangle. Just use as directed and you will love your water and the water will love you back.

 

[Mdragger88]

Please use PoolMath to calculate bleach/liquid chlorine doses based on the percentage you have & your tub volume to ensure you stay ABOVE minimum for your cya until your next dose FC/CYA Levels. Raising fc to or near slam level for your cya is fine to do & should allow for replacing fc loss from current bather waste & account for standby fc loss until the following day.
10ml of bleach/liquid chlorine is likely insufficient.
I have a 200 gallon tub & use 1-2oz of 10% after use depending upon my needs.
Dedicated Liquid chlorine is preferred mainly because it’s generally 10% strength or a little higher as well as being unadulterated.
Household bleach is generally 6% or less & it has become increasingly hard to find unadulterated versions without scents, fabric protection/cloromax (polymers), or non splashless as of late.

 

[mayberry32]

How much diluted Aqua Clarity did you add? Excessive foaming means your water is softer and yiu can use less per week. This is a good thing. Decay rates of sanitizer are all over the place. Just like people, some eat more than others. A variety of things can influence the amount of sanitizer your water will demand. If you purge periodically, maintain cyanuric acid between 30-40 ppm, monitor the pH and Total Alkalinity weekly or bi-weekly, you will be golden. No need to purge again before you begin with the Aqua Clarity since you recently purged. You need to find a gallon jug that was used for bleach, windshield washer solution or vinegar. Rinse it out and use that for the AC. The bottom of the jug will have a recycling number 2 in the triangle. Just use as directed and you will love your water and the water will love you back.

I think it said 1oz per 200 gallons. My tub is 450 gallons. So, I used 2.5 ozs.

 

[mayberry32]

Please use PoolMath to calculate bleach/liquid chlorine doses based on the percentage you have & your tub volume to ensure you stay ABOVE minimum for your cya until your next dose FC/CYA Levels. Raising fc to or near slam level for your cya is fine to do & should allow for replacing fc loss from current bather waste & account for standby fc loss until the following day.
10ml of bleach/liquid chlorine is likely insufficient.
I have a 200 gallon tub & use 1-2oz of 10% after use depending upon my needs.
Dedicated Liquid chlorine is preferred mainly because it’s generally 10% strength or a little higher as well as being unadulterated.
Household bleach is generally 6% or less & it has become increasingly hard to find unadulterated versions without scents, fabric protection/cloromax (polymers), or non splashless as of late.

So, where are you finding the unadulterated liquid chlorine? I've looked online (Amazon, etc) and find some 12.5% liquid shock, but that's all I'm finding.

 

[JoeSelf]

12.5% is what I can get from a pool store. Check hardware stores for pool shock.

 

[phonedave]

There is CYA in the granulated chlorine. So I guess it’s just accumulated really fast and crept up by me adding it every time I use the tub.

I did not realize you were using Dichlor. Using dichlor in a tub will cause CYA to SHOOT up,

 

[phonedave]

Stupid question, but since you have to deal with liquid bleach every single time you get out of the hot tub, has anyone found a really good container with a spigot, sort of like a laundry detergent jug, to dispense the bleach? Something with a small pushbutton bulb poured into a pre-marked jar would be really simple for adding bleach every time you get out.

Some people use the "perfect pour" containers meant for liquor. They are quite pricey and you can find cheaper ones if you look around.

I have a bunch of plastic cups with measurement markings on them. In the summer I keep them with the bleach in a cabinet next to my tub. I just pour the bleach into the cup and then into the tub when I get out.

In the winter, when it is too cold to mess with all of that, I keep the bleach and cups in the house (in my laundry room ironically) I fill up 2 oz of bleach and take it with me when I go out to the tub. I just keep it off to the side on a table. When I am done, I dump it in, and bring the cup back inside.

 

[phonedave]

so, would you definitely recommend a liquid chlorine product over regular bleach? I'm not concerned if it's a little more expensive. I'm looking for consistency and ease of maintenance. I run my own business and have 3 kids, all in different sports. I bought the hot tub for stress relief and relaxation.....not to have one more job to do. I'm maintaining the water pretty well, and learning quite a bit about how the chemistry works together. I've ready the dichlor/bleach thread on here for maintenance and I'm following it now. If this proves to be too much work, I'll be looking into a salt system fast....they seem much more set and forget, and add a little chlorine manually, when needed. If that's true, I'd rather go that route.

We routinely take our boat saltwater fishing and are gone for a week to 10 days. This happens several times a year. So, I'd like something I can leave for a week and it still be okay and ready to use when I get back home.

I am going to try and answer a lot of your questions in one shot.

Bleach and liquid chlorine and liquid shock are all the same thing. Just different strengths. As others have said, you can be sure liquid chlorine / pool chlorine / liquid shock etc do not have other "stuff" in them. Bleach on the other had may have stuff in it. You want plain bleach. You do not want scented bleach, splashless bleach (it has a thickener in it), or some of the other "improved" ones. Just plain old bleach

All forms of liquid chlorine will loose strength over time. Heat, light, and time are what degrades the product. If you are using something, and you are not getting the expected results based on reported strength and pool math, it may be old. No need to get rid of it, it is still good, just weaker. So adjust your dosing.

AquaClarity does foam, it has a surfactant in it. When I started using it, it got a LOT of foam as well. I raised my CH and also lowered the amount that I use, and now it is beautiful.

Maintaining a hot tub is really not that much effort once you get it dialed in. When I drain and refill I start with dichlor, and add it daily until my CYA gets to 30 and then I switch to bleach.

For the first week after a refill, it is a daily task to test pH, FC, CH, and TA. After a week things are in balance, and by that time I have switched to bleach. I add 2oz of bleach like 4 times a week. If we are going in the tub I test and add bleach if necessary. Every so often I test pH just to make sure things are not out of whack. Usually on the weekend I do a full series of tests, add Aqua Clarity, pop out the jetpacks and wipe down behind them, wipe the waterline, and spray the filters out. I have left my tub for over a week. I just run the FC up to shock levels. Then when I get back home, I shock it again.

 

[Methuselah]

(since the ph test is invalid at fc levels above 10ppm)

Sorry to butt in, I stopped catching up on this tread at post 88 when I saw this (it turned on a light bulb in my little brain...)

I'm 6 months new to hot tub stuff (not pool, but that was decades ago). When I was adding dichlor I was driving the FC above 10 and seeing PH rise maybe by maybe .3 to .4 --- at that time I presumed since it came back down with the FC readings it was causing the rise. After getting enough acid into the tub to get ALK down to 40-50 (don't recall exact), it didn't do that or do it to that degree when shock level bleach dosing (again, hoping I am recalling correctly, my logbook's at home, I'm at work).

So I'm wondering maybe the PH was not actually rising at the onset with the diclor, and later, maybe the acid changed the equation and put the taylor HP kit more on track even with higher PH?

THIS STUFF IS INTERESTING, ESPECIALLY FOR THE UNINITIATED

 

[Methuselah]

Thank you! Someone mentioned that a few weeks ago, and I completely forgot that existed.

As for CYA dropping off, how fast does that happen in a hot tub? If it's at 40-50 now, how long before it gets back down below 30, if the tub is used daily?

Mine lost 2 or 3 in about 5 months and splash out and evaporation only had me adding about 5 gallons of water to a 515 gallon tub (< 1%). Was set at 100. YMMV

 

[Methuselah]

That would be fine to use. Be sure to clean one out and rinse completely. Just know that sodium hypochlorite, regular household bleach, MUST be kep't in n opaque container out of the sunlight. Store it in a dark area. Also, the chlorine dissipates over time. Try this as you have mentioned and only use a half gallon to start with. Periodically add the bleach and test periodically to make sure that the concentration is still available in it. You never know the age of the bleach you buy. Some may be super fresh and will last longer. Great idea. I strongly recommend the liquid chlorine or bleach products. Just be absolutely sure that when you purchase bleach at a retailer that it says "sodium hypochlorite" on the label and that it has an EPA Registration number on it. Do NOT buy the splashless or scented bleach for use in a hot tub, swim spa or swimming pool.

Also, higher concentration bleach looses concentration faster than the 5 or 6% stuff at big lots. My 10% after about 5 or 6 months is now 7.5%, but I expect the other 3 unopened bottles to be as the first one which was an actual 10% per label. I got the 10% stuff on sale at Rural King.

 

[Methuselah]

I am going to try and answer a lot of your questions in one shot.

Bleach and liquid chlorine and liquid shock are all the same thing. Just different strengths. As others have said, you can be sure liquid chlorine / pool chlorine / liquid shock etc do not have other "stuff" in them. Bleach on the other had may have stuff in it. You want plain bleach. You do not want scented bleach, splashless bleach (it has a thickener in it), or some of the other "improved" ones. Just plain old bleach

All forms of liquid chlorine will loose strength over time. Heat, light, and time are what degrades the product. If you are using something, and you are not getting the expected results based on reported strength and pool math, it may be old. No need to get rid of it, it is still good, just weaker. So adjust your dosing.

AquaClarity does foam, it has a surfactant in it. When I started using it, it got a LOT of foam as well. I raised my CH and also lowered the amount that I use, and now it is beautiful.

Maintaining a hot tub is really not that much effort once you get it dialed in. When I drain and refill I start with dichlor, and add it daily until my CYA gets to 30 and then I switch to bleach.

For the first week after a refill, it is a daily task to test pH, FC, CH, and TA. After a week things are in balance, and by that time I have switched to bleach. I add 2oz of bleach like 4 times a week. If we are going in the tub I test and add bleach if necessary. Every so often I test pH just to make sure things are not out of whack. Usually on the weekend I do a full series of tests, add Aqua Clarity, pop out the jetpacks and wipe down behind them, wipe the waterline, and spray the filters out. I have left my tub for over a week. I just run the FC up to shock levels. Then when I get back home, I shock it again.

Your good! Took me 2 - 2 1/2 weeks to bump with dichlor to hit 30...

 

[Methuselah]

I have purged with Ahhsome a few weeks ago.

And dang. I just used a gallon water for the mixture. I’ll change it out tomorrow to another jug. I just have to find a better jug to use.

As for the chlorine, I’m seeing inconsistency with the bleach and it’s making me mad. Yesterday, 40 ml added around 3ppm. This morning, the same amount seems to have added online half that much.

Increased demand for CHL could be a sign of nasties in the water, so best when that happens to test for combined chlorine as well (CC). An ozone generator eats up FC some, mine eats up .25 to .5 ppm with the pump filter setting 2 hours, but it also "polls", running pumps to check and if necessary run the heat.

I think 1.5 is a bit low for 40-50 CYA, below recommended minimum, so you probably need to check the sticky or pool math stuff just in case.

For as long as this tread is running, not to criticize in any way, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that in the end if you find daily dosing or like me, twice testing/dosing too burdensome, that I have seen so many folks here proclaim they felt like the Denevin (a Star Trek reference) after switching to a salt water system. They seem to report it is less maintenance and easier to take vacations using it. You definitely don't NEED one, but then some folks drive Mercedes and Cadillacs...

I hope you get it all worked out, you really are asking the right questions!

 

[Methuselah]

This is the exact reason behind the dichlor then bleach method as mentioned in this article

How do I use Chlorine in my Spa or Hot Tub?

If you have a question about any information within this Sticky, please start a new thread for yourself where you will receive very quick responses to your specific questions. Thank you! Introduction There are two main things to consider when maintaining your hot tub water, Water Balance and...

www.troublefreepool.com

Time to switch to liquid chlorine- always follow the FC/CYA Levels
Cya of 40 isn’t a crime lol but above 50 makes it hard to keep things sanitary while also maintaining ph properly (since the ph test is invalid at fc levels above 10ppm)
The cya in a hot tub gets depleted slightly over time because of the hot water so I try to replenish it with a dichlor dose every couple weeks or so. Don’t sweat that it’s 40ppm - just chlorinate accordingly

I'm going to add something totally un-necessary, kinda like you having a calculator and a slide rule (useful when you have a dead battery).

The calculations for adding CHL are just math, like percentages but for such small needed quantity, you use ppm, parts per million, instead. So if you divide by 100 you get parts of a dollar, cents (per cent), ppm is just divide by a million.

So, first, you are adding ounces but you have gallons in the tub. So make it ounces, apples to apples you know. 515 gallons (my tub), 128 ounces in a gallon:

515 X 128 = 65,920 ounces of water

So now, you want to add some CHL. What you add is ppm. One ppm is one millionth of a part of that 65,920 ounces, or:

65,920 / 1,000,000 = .06592 ounces

This means for every .06592 ounces of CHL you get in there it should read 1 ppm on your test kit.

So, bleach used to be mostly 5.25%, but I'm now seeing it left off the labels when it's bargain unscented stuff and it seems to be anywhere from an intentional 3 - 3.5% (Kroger comes to mind), to 5 or 6%.

You expressed in interest in 12.5%? I recommend 10% and will base the rest of the calculation on that (because it takes very little, you will be measuring even smaller quantity with more potent product. So this actually gets easier. Dose in ounces, compute when you need less than an ounce is simply proportionate --- meaning if an ounce added 3 ppm and you need one ppm, just add a third of an ounce.

Enough over-explaining, sorry. So an ounce of bleach or whatever you buy as chlorinator that really is the same thing but stronger, if it's 10%, an ounce has 10% of CHL, or 1/10 ounce (.1 ounce CHL) per 1 ounce solution. 12.5% solution of course has .125% CHL (.125 ounce CHL) per 1 ounce solution.

So that ounce is how many ppm of the water in the tub? For each ounce of CHL you get .06592 ppm CHL, divide:

.1 / .06592 = 1.52 ppm CHL for every ounce of 10% solution you add to a 515 gallon tub.

(.125 / .06592 = 1.9 ppm CHL for every ounce of 12.5% solution you add to a 515 gallon tub, if you must )

I use a Taylor scale that also measures in grams, making the readout higher makes it easier to stop pouring, gives me better resolution, and may be more accurate since the scale is expanded. An ounce of solution is 28.3 grams (just multiply ounces by 28.3).

I'm adding 3.15 ppm an ounce for my tub with that 10% solution, but the pool math calculator agrees with the above 1.52 ounces. Still, when all is said and done, your solution will vary in concentration, so you can just use this to add a few ppm, run a couple minutes to mix, and retest with a drop tester and adjust accordingly. Now that the container is almost empty it's 7.5% BC I needed more to hit my target number. Kinda makes regular testing a thing, and an accurate DPD kit seems prudent.

One last note bc I'm very long winded ... I use a medicine dosing cup. When I used low % bargain branded bleach I used a plastic cup. My scale has a tare button to cancel out the container but the dosing cup I just read off it. Of course pouring a scant 1/2 ounce from a full gallon bottle isn't fun, so I just used the old cup and added an ounce or two and repoured, then put the rest back in the jug. I'm cheap. That first (of 4) gallons lasted me about 5 months before I purged (demand dropped after using ahhSome! to about half what it was).

 

[mayberry32]

I’m just going to add on questions as they come up, since I started this thread a few weeks ago.

My water looks really clear and I have been using the aqua clarity for the past few weeks. My pH is around 7.6, my chlorine is 4.5 with no cc. Alkalinity is between 60 and 70 and calcium is in the 150 range. The only thing that is out of range at all is the CYA is still around 60, but coming down since I started using bleach instead of Dichlor.

However, as clear as the water is, when I first turn on the jets after pulling off the cover, I am smelling something that is best described as a body odor smell. It seems to dissipate after the Jets have been running for several minutes. Or, maybe I just get used to it. It’s not overwhelming, just a slight odor.

What could that be , since I purged with Ahhsome a few weeks ago and have been using Aqua Clarity since ?

 

[Ahhsomeguy]

It is probably simply a whiff of the sanitizer. Does it get more pungent when the water is at 104 degrees?