New Home Owner - Green Pool

[kimkats]

Let me ask you this......can you pull the water for your flowers or grass? Just a little at a time then refill. It will take longer but much safer for your pool in the long run.

Kim

 

[WASP]

I'm curious as to how the city would know how much chlorine is in the water that you drain?

Do they come out and sample it?

Watering your yard might be the way to go.

 

[Alex_H]

Well, second tests confirming isn't a good sign. Good luck with the high CYA issue. I would recommend seeing if you can live with the high CYA and see if it comes down on it's own (my pool seems to drop CYA like a rock). But if you're going to water the plants, let the FC drop a bit first.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

(my pool seems to drop CYA like a rock).

Alex, I'm sure that you being in Florida with frequent rains is what is doing your CYA in. Each time the pool level rises from the rain and requires a little draining you'll lose some. Florida folks have an advantage there with that.

 

[aeh0603]

Hmm... lots of food for thought on the draining vs. reverse osmosis options. I did a little googling and it does look like both are options for me. I need to do more research on the cost difference though.

WASP, I have no idea if the city enforces the no chlorine thing. I do know that most pool owners will inform the city and/or water department when they drain their pool because while draining a pool is allowed, you can get fined for things like water run off from a sprinkler system. When my parents neighbor drained their pool a while back a neighbor down the street reported all the water running down the gutter and someone from the city stopped by to check it out. No one got in trouble but I guess my point is that the guy who showed up could potentially check the water for chlorine too.

For now, my plan is to wait for the FC level to come down a bit. Once it's closer to target I may try watering some plants with the pool water to see how they do.

 

[duraleigh]

Not sure how I missed the continuation of this thread.

aeh0603, you need to replace some water in your pool....period.

Going to the pool store to "double check" your results is a waste of time......don't do it.

Your CYA of 200+ is unmanageable and no one here can give you accurate advice since you are so far out of our normal parameters. CYA does not come down on it's own so you will continue to be in this condition until you lower your CYA.......and that can only be done through a series of partial drains and refills.

If that was my pool, I would immediately drain half, refill, and then drain half again, then test for CYA. Once you get your CYA around 50 ppm, you can begin to manage your pool normally and stop dealing in chlorine levels so high you cannot reliably test for them.

You will soon be out of R-0013 (CYA reagent) in your kit so I suggest you order refills now. As the summer progresses, you do NOT want that pool in it's current condition.

 

[aeh0603]

Hi duraleigh, it has been less than a week since my test kit arrived and we are still researching the options for reducing CYA/CH (Cycles of draining/refilling water vs. a reverse osmosis treatment). Draining the water is not our only option, if it were, I would have started already. At the moment we are leaning towards the reverse osmosis option but we still need to get some quotes from local companies. From what I can tell, by the time we drain and refill several times the cost of the two options may be similar. I think both options will likely end up in the $300 to $500 price range. With a reverse osmosis treatment, we will not waste as much water and will be completed in one or two days. With cycles of draining and refilling water I will use more than the current volume of my pool to get the levels within range. We have tiered water prices so this cost will add up fast and the process will likely take a couple days per drain/refill cycle. With my current CYA level well over 200, I will need to drain half my water at least 3 times, maybe more. With our current drought, this is not a decision I take lightly.

I do understand that CYA does not come down on it's own and makes maintaining the water chemistry much more difficult. I do not feel like waiting another week or two while we make our decision will be detramental to my pool.

I also do not plan on going back to the pool store for testing. I trust my testing, especially now that I have had a chance to test several times with similar results.

 

[aeh0603]

I have been testing my pool water every day or two as I let my FC come down. I know I will still need to treat (i.e. reverse osmosis) or drain the water to lower CYA and CH, but In the mean time since we are still researching options, I just wanted to check and make sure I'm maintaining the water correctly. I also know that pH is not accurate at high FC levels, but I tested it tonight anyway just because I was curious. Here are my current test results:

FC - 25
CC - 0.5
TA - 130
pH - 7.3
CYA - 200-240 (it was between 50 and 60 using 1/4 dilution)
CH - about 1100

My plan is to maintain FC at about this level until we drain or treat the water, I have not added anything to the water since before my test kit arrived last week. I do have a question about TA and pH though. Over the past week my TA has risen by 10 every couple days, is this normal? Also, I know the pH test is not accurate when FC is over 10, but I thought it read higher that it is. It's it bad that mine appears to be on the low end of the range?

 

[otter86753]

 

[Texas Splash]

Well, you're doing the best anyone can under your circumstances. FC is a bit of a guessing game at that level. As for the pH reading itself with a high pH, take a look at these previous quotes:

There is a chlorine neutralizer already in the Taylor (and TF-100) kits for the TA test. The R-0007 reagent is sodium thiosulfate which is a chlorine neutralizer. This is done to neutralize the chlorine for the TA test. However, such neutralizer solutions are themselves high in pH and the reactions with chlorine are inconsistent in their effects on pH (depending on factors such as the TA level). So while you can add some R-0007 before adding the pH reagent, you may still get a "too high" reading, though at least you won't get the bleached-out half-indicator result of purple. You can certainly add a couple of drops of R-0007 to see what it does -- just don't trust the final result.

What if you dilute the sample 1 to 1 with distilled water. The FC level will be half of what it was before, and the PH shift from the dilution should be quite small because the TA level of distilled water is very low. It should even be possible to calculate what the PH shift from the dilution will be and correct for it.

The key to making dilution with water work is that the water really does need to be distilled water because it must be unbuffered. Otherwise, it will have a large effect on pH, so one cannot use tap or filtered water since they have too much TA (i.e. buffering). Distilled water cuts down all concentrations by an equal amount. However, water itself will dissociate to fill in for any reduction in hydrogen and hydroxyl ions with their product remaining the same. Mostly though, the main pH buffer relationships have their ratios the same so they keep the pH the same. I'll work on this, but I think the pH remains essentially the same so would be a good approach, assuming one dilutes to get the FC below 10 ppm -- say to 5 ppm FC for safety.

Testing pH with high chlorine levels
Accurate pH test during shock levels with R-007?

 

[aeh0603]

Thank you Pat, those quotes and links are interesting to read. I sort of went off on a tangent in the deep end of pool chemistry posts after that and wound up reading about how to treat staining and it got me thinking... I originally assumed all the staining in my pool was more of a cosmetic thing, so I was planning on getting the water properly balanced before looking in to if it would be possible to do anything about the staining (there are two types of stains. It's worse in some spots than others but the main kind basically covers the whole pool).

Long story short, I did the test and vitamin C tablets lifted the predominant dingy looking stains so that means they are probably metal stains. I still haven't figured out what the black spots are (they don't scratch off, and neither vitamin c nor chlorine seem to do anything to them). Since the treatment for metal stains basically just pulls the metal back into the water, and I need to do reverse osmosis or drain and refill anyway to lower CYA and CH, I should treat the pool for metal stains first right? That way when I treat the water, I am removing the metals too?

 

[Texas Splash]

If you are able to a significant water exchange or reverse osmosis in your area, that would certainly help. Of course those of us with FB pools know that generally we aren't supposed to empty our pools 100%, so not sure how that would work in your area or limit your options. Just something to keep in mind.