New DE filter grid or replace?

[strangiato]

Hi All,
We currently have an Anthony VA-52-2 DE filter for our ~19K gal in-ground, enclosed pool. The filter grid needs to be replaced and I'm seeing prices starting at about $500. I can do the work to replace it myself. The filter is the original equipment from when the previous owners had the pool built in about 1981. I've been told be a few "pool folks" that I should not replace the filter because it will never stop working. Same with the pump, which is also the orig. Obviously, from the model number, it is a 52 sq ft filter. We use chlorine, usually 3" trichlor tabs (a couple of tabs lasts a couple weeks for us) or bleach, with Dichlor to start the season.

I'm considering having the filter replaced with a new cartridge filter just to get a away from the annoyances of this old filter and getting the seal tight when putting it all back together each spring. I'm guessing that I would also need to replace the push-pull valve with a multiport valve as well. I rarely need to backwash since the pool is enclosed. In looking at filters on Doheny's, I see most cartridge filters are A LOT bigger than 52 sq ft. I have a few questions...

1. I found one 50 sq ft filter. Would that suffice?
2. Is it okay to go over the sq ft'age? 120, 150 sq ft?
3. Are the ones that are 300-400-500 sq ft meant for commercial size pools?
4. Is there a more appropriate filter type to get?
5. Do I need to replace the valve also? The current one is metal. Copper, I'm assuming.

Thanks for any help you can give!
Tim

 

[mknauss]

Cartridge filter are sized differently than DE filters.

The issue I see is your pump is very strong. So a cartridge filter will need to be sized for that more so than your debris load with an indoor pool. A small VS pump would work very well with a smaller filter, but pool equipment is in very short supply this year, so up to you what you want to address. EDIT -- just saw a spa, so regardless, you will need a filter to handle higher flow rates.

There is no valve used for a cartridge filter.

With your indoor pool and current pump, I would not go under a 200 SF cartridge filter.

 

[anthonypool89]

We currently have an Anthony VA-52-2 DE filter

I have the exact same filter. Interesting that you were told to never get rid of it - I was told the same thing, that it is the "cadillac" of filters. Lifetime warranty to original owner. Just thought I'd mention that, if you are considering keeping it, the grids are readily available either separately (sort of goes together like stacking dominoes on end - they fall over the place like dominoes also and is best to have an extra set of hands) or you can buy the entire assembly.

Curious as to what the "annoyances" are that you refer to when reassembling? Are you talking about the rubber o-ring not sealing? There is an occasional very small drip from where the metal band goes around the filter depending on how you put it back together.

Is there a rating as to how many gallons the 52-sq. ft. filter can handle? Given that it was installed with the pool, I suspect it was deemed suitable for 19k gallons. One consideration would be that DE filtration is finer (handles smaller particles) compared to a cartridge filter -which works better for larger particles. It's no secret that DE filters require the most maintenance but also provide the best level of filtration.

 

[strangiato]

Cartridge filter are sized differently than DE filters.

The issue I see is your pump is very strong. So a cartridge filter will need to be sized for that more so than your debris load with an indoor pool. A small VS pump would work very well with a smaller filter, but pool equipment is in very short supply this year, so up to you what you want to address. EDIT -- just saw a spa, so regardless, you will need a filter to handle higher flow rates.

There is no valve used for a cartridge filter.

With your indoor pool and current pump, I would not go under a 200 SF cartridge filter.

Okay, thanks. I was kind of thinking that could be the case with cartridge filters. I didn't realize that they didn't use a valve either. I guess that is becasue there is no back washing?

Just thought I'd mention that, if you are considering keeping it, the grids are readily available either separately (sort of goes together like stacking dominoes on end - they fall over the place like dominoes also and is best to have an extra set of hands) or you can buy the entire assembly.

Curious as to what the "annoyances" are that you refer to when reassembling? Are you talking about the rubber o-ring not sealing? There is an occasional very small drip from where the metal band goes around the filter depending on how you put it back together.

Is there a rating as to how many gallons the 52-sq. ft. filter can handle? Given that it was installed with the pool, I suspect it was deemed suitable for 19k gallons. One consideration would be that DE filtration is finer (handles smaller particles) compared to a cartridge filter -which works better for larger particles. It's no secret that DE filters require the most maintenance but also provide the best level of filtration.

I've seen the grids available, but I was considering replacing the whole assembly. Maybe I will just try the grids first. Yes, the annoyance is seating the rubber o-ring and getting a good seal. My filter is also tight up against a wall, so the metal clamp tends to be hard to move out of the way. It's also SUPER noisy when I tighten the clamp. I usually wonder what the neighborhood thinks is going on.

I am not sure what the ratings are for the filter. I think I might have the manual around here somewhere. The previous homeowners left a briefcase full of pool docs, including the original drawings, which is kinda cool.

I am aware of the DE filters being able to handle smaller particles, which is really why I want to keep it and just replace the grids. And I'm definietly aware that it needs more maintenance.

I think I'll see how much just the grids cost and might end up going that route.

Thanks to both of you for your help.

 

[anthonypool89]

Maybe I will just try the grids first.

I would. That filter is stainless steel and built like a tank. No plastic anywhere on those. I swear these devices will still be working fine long after all of us are gone! I will advise one thing...IF you just replace the grids and not the whole assembly, it can be tricky to get it all back together. It's truly like messing with (really big) dominoes that keep falling over! There is a long shaft that goes through the thing - threaded on the one end with a bolt. Other end requires an allen wrench. Just have to jockey it back and forth until it's all tight - BUT making sure that you don't leave too much sticking out on the one end of the shaft or else the grids won't fit inside the tank! You'll see what I mean when (if) you decide to go that way. Wishing you the best of luck with it!! Please let us know how it goes.

the annoyance is seating the rubber o-ring and getting a good seal.

OK....first of all...do you put a waterproof lube on the o-ring? That really helps with creating a tight seal. I hate the stuff cause it's hard to get off your fingers, but it does the job. I've been using "Aladdin Magic Lube" for years - available many different places. Now, if your tank is slightly bent anywhere / out of round, etc. that could also be an issue that would prevent a tight seal from forming. When I put the top of the tank back on, I hit on it really firmly (with my hand - not a tool) at several places to help seat it.

It's also SUPER noisy when I tighten the clamp.

This sounds like a problem with either the nut or the threads on the clamping ring....kind of like tightening a bolt on rusty threads, etc. Take a stiff brush and clean off the threads. Then you could also apply lube on the threads. Also probably a good idea to buy a new nut, since it might be original (?) Can't remember where I got them but at one point bought several so I have extras.

I think I'll see how much just the grids cost and might end up going that route.

I think I bought them here last time - I now have two sets so that I never have to take the pool out of service while one set is soaking in a large plastic bucket with the filter cleaner solution. Anthony Apollo VA-52 DE Pool Filter Repairs | InTheSwim Pool Blog I will say, since you mention possibly getting the entire assembly - that's the easiest way to go and not sure that it wasn't much more expensive than getting all 10 individual grids. IF you do individual though, make sure that the grids all the way on the end have all the mesh material underneath the round circular pieces so as to prevent DE from escaping. Same, of course, for the plastic spacers in between all the grids. They fit together well actually, but it really helps to have someone assist.

 

[strangiato]

Awesome, thanks for the link! I ordered the individual grids for about $190. That's way better than $455 for the assembly. I'll gladly fumble with them for a $265 savings.

I appreciate all of your tips. The clamp ring is in good shape. The threads look clean and the nut is in good shape (it might be the orig - it's half inch). I think it's just metal of the nut on the metal of the clamp causing the noise. I did take the o-ring off and cleaned it and the body of the filter. The o-ring is still mostly round. I think I replaced it about 3 years ago, so it's still pretty good. I don't put any lube on it. I did start it all up since I took the cover off the pool and I have no leaks from the filter, which is unusual. I typically get the single drip like you mentioned.

I'll report back after we get the grids replaced.

 

[anthonypool89]

I think I replaced it about 3 years ago

I had forgotten to mention about replacing the o-ring if it's fairly old - so sounds like yours should be in good shape.

Awesome, thanks for the link! I ordered the individual grids for about $190

Great! Glad I could be of help!

The clamp ring is in good shape. The threads look clean and the nut is in good shape

Ok. Out of curiosity - what is your starting pressure, generally speaking?

 

[strangiato]

Ok. Out of curiosity - what is your starting pressure, generally speaking?

It was about 14. I rarely see it ever get much higher than that.

 

[anthonypool89]

Wow...I can only wish. Mine starts around 14 lately, and then doesn't waste much time going up to around 20, where it's soon time to backwash again.

 

[strangiato]

Well, I got the grids replaced this weekend. The shipping was pretty quick - only about 3 days to get them.

I pulled out the old grid and it took a long time, with my wife's help, to get the bell nut loose form the shaft. I guess it has been many years since it was apart, but we eventually got it off and only scapred up the shaft a little bit with vise grips. Unfortunately, in the process, I broke the air bleeder hose off. With the two of us assembling, we got it back together without too much trouble and got the bell nut back on and fastend with the set screw.
Since I broke the air bleeder, I had to try to find another, which was not easy. Tried a local pool service company's store, which is the kind of place that has tons of random parts available, but they did not have it. Leslie's didn't have it. Tried another regional store, which did not have it, but had something else that I bought to try it. That did not work. I had found it online, but it would have taken at least 4 days to get it and at that point (yesterday), my pool had already been off for two days. I finally found another local store a couple towns over that had it in stock. It didn't fit perfectly, but I was able to use the old nut with the new hose and got it installed. Got the filter back together (back to single water drip - GRRR!), new DE into the system, and all is good now. Tested the water after the system ran for 30 minutes and the chem was still in good shape, so we got it vacuumed, fired up the heater, and we were able to go swimming last night!

I forgot to take pictures most of the way through the process, but did snap one of the old grid sitting in the filter tank before I ordered the new grids.