New Construction Plumbing Diagram

[jsteve17]

Hello. I am building my own pool, and am working on figuring out the plumbing. I would love some expert input on my design.

Here are a few design features:
- I have 2 channel drains in my pool: the main circulation drain and a water feature drain.
- I have floor returns in the pool to use when heating the pool. Planning ahead for a future heat pump.
- I have a floor return in the spa to use when in pool mode to create the overflow. I think this is typical, but not sure.
- I have 3 bubblers with the outer two tied together, and the center home run. This is so if we have 2 chairs in the middle of the sun shelf, I can run the outer 2 bubblers, or if not, run all 3.
- I have 2 water bowls that are tied together.
- I have a 24" waterfall (sheer decent) in the pool.
- I have a 24" spillover from the spa into the pool.
- I have 2 pumps: one for pool circulation and spa mode, and another just for water features.

Here are a few questions:
- I've read that I need a water feature filter for at least the waterfall. So, should I just put a water feature filter on the waterfall, or just do another filter for all of the water features (as drawn)?
- Do I need a check valve on the spa floor return only? I assume this is necessary when in pool mode so that the water doesn't try to equalize with the pool through the pool returns.
- I am using Pentair IntelliCenter and IntelliChlor. I believe when in spa mode, it turns off the IntelliChlor so that you don't over chlorinate the spa. Or, should I take the jets off before the IntelliChlor, since I have a separate spa floor return for the spillover?




- Yellow circle: 2-Way Diverter Valve
- Orange circle: 3-Way Diverter Valve
- Green circle: Check Valve
- SWCG: Salt-Water Chlorine Generator (IntelliChlor)
- The valves that have an "A", indicate actuators for automation.




Thank you in advance!

 

[Poolbreh]

Looks cool man, are you doing the expansion module for intellicenter? I count 6 A. Do you want the jets to always be on when heating the spa? (Usually return actuator is pool/spa and additional actuator T on spa for jets) The filter for the water features isn’t necessary. Was that in the sheer descent manual? The bowls and sheer descent will drain out into bubblers when pump shuts off. Are you using intellivalves? Looks pretty darn good though.

 

[jsteve17]

Poolbreh, I appreciate it!

- Yes, I am using IntelliValves, and am getting the expansion module for the IntelliCenter.
- I figured the jets would be on when heating the spa. I just thought I wouldn't have the blower on, and maybe reduce the flow to the jets when just heating. However, is this what you are suggesting? In this case, I would need another actuator.



- Yes, both the CMP Natural Wonders and Pentair Magic Fall manuals specify a filter. The Pentair specifies a 20-micron filter (no DE or sand). I would prefer not to have one but wasn't sure. It would probably be a total PITA if the waterfall got clogged with debris. That's why I was thinking I'd just run a small filter on the waterfall, instead of filtering all water features.
- As for the bowls and waterfall draining into the pool, I figured the wouldn't be an issue, but do you think I should have a check valve on those lines to prevent that?

One new question:
- Do you think I'll have enough flow running 2 bubblers off of a single 2" run? Or should I home-run the outer bubblers too? I don't plan on running them independently, but want to make sure they work well.

Thanks for your input!

 

[ajw22]

A vacuum pool cleaner is the worst type of pool cleaner. I would never build a new pool with a cleaner suction line. Eitehr use a pressure side cleaner with a booster pump or use a robot cleaner.

There is no benefit to floor returns for heat in a 6' deep pool or less then 5' deep spa.

In the IntelliCenter you can set the Intellichlor output % for POOL mdoe and SPA mode. Youw ant the SWG to be able to chlorinate both pool and spa.

You say future heat pump and you have gas heater in the diagram. What are your plans?

Having the heater in the spa jet flow will reduce the spa jet pressure.

What model pumps and filter do you plan?

How many jets will you have in the spa? Consider having a dedicated spa jet pump if you want really good pressure from them.



Where will the pool water feature drain be placed in the pool?


Will you have a spa air blower?

 

[Poolbreh]

Yes, both the CMP Natural Wonders and Pentair Magic Fall manuals specify a filter. The Pentair specifies a 20-micron filter (no DE or sand). I would prefer not to have one but wasn't sure

That makes sense because the sheer descent do get clogged occasionally with small debris.

As for the bowls and waterfall draining into the pool, I figured the wouldn't be an issue, but do you think I should have a check valve on those lines to prevent that?

It’s up to you. I probably would. Depends on a few things, if the inlet to the bowls is at the very bottom, it would take some time for them to fill before spilling over. It could allow the water to drain out in lines, so when bubblers turn on you get a bunch of air first.


Your newest diagram was exactly like I was suggesting. But like Allen said a stand alone jet pump would give you the best performance.

You may want to calculate the total gpm on all water features and compare it to the pump/filter gpm if you plan on running them all at once.

 

[jsteve17]

ajw22, thank you for your reply.

Unfortunately, I've already go the gunite shell in the ground with the stub-out plumbing. I'm getting ready to run the rest of the plumbing. So, the floor returns are in there. However, I could remove the pool cleaner port. However, I had planned on using that for a manual vacuum initially. Then, I could switch it to pressure down the road if I go with a robot.

I was thinking of adding a heat pump in the future if we want to extend the season on either end.

So, would you suggest having the spa jets split off before the heater, and then mix between the jets (recirculated water), and the spa floor heater (heated water). I really don't want to add another pump. I have 6 jets in the spa.

Yes, the water feature drain is next to the main circulation drain in the deep end of the pool. They are channel drains.

Yes, I will have a spa air blower.

One more question, they pre-plumbed all of the channel drains in 3". Should I run the 3" back to the pad, and then reduce it to 2-1/2" to go through the valves and into the pump, or should I just reduce down to 2-1/2" at the side of the pool and run back to the equipment pad at 2-1/2"

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[jsteve17]

I'm doing the plumbing now, and am stressing a bit about how I have to turn the corner to go from the pool (which is behind my house) to the equipment pad which is around the corner (along the side of the house). In order to get it in front of the equipment pad in a logical manner, I have to add a few 90s and 45s to a couple of runs to cross over other pipes.



I hope I'm just way overthinking this, and it is normal in pool plumbing to add fittings to cross over pipes.

To see if I had an issue, I wanted to calculate the TDH of my return loop as an example.

I used this site as my resource: How Do I Calculate Feet of Head for My Pool? - INYOPools.com - DIY Resources

For my return loop, I have around 150 ft pipe, (7) 90 elbows, (5) 45 elbows, (5) T's. Based on those numbers, if I do the calculation:

90 elbows = 8.7 * 7 = 60.9' (effective length of 2" pipe)
45 elbows = 3.1 * 5 = 15.5'
T fittings = 7.5 * 5 = 37.5'
2" pipe = 150'

Total effective length = 263.9'

My pool is around 15000 gallons. So, that would be 42 gpm for the filtration flow.

So, at 40 gpm, a 2" pipe has 2.75 feet of head per 100' of pipe.

Based on 263.9', the calculation would be (263.9 / 100) * 2.75 = 7.25 total feet of head. Is that correct?

If that is correct, then the pipe is a minimal part of the TDH. The filter and heater add most of the TDH to the system, correct?

I guess another way to look at it, is if I had to add (4) 45's to a run to jump other pipes, I would be adding (3.1 * 4) 12.4' of length, which @ 40 gpm would be adding ((12.4 / 100) * 2.75) 0.341 TDH to the run. Correct?

If that is all correct, then it seems like I'm way overthinking it.

Thoughts or corrections?

 

[ajw22]

What size pipes are you using for your suction and returns for your pool and spa?

@mas985

 

[jsteve17]

What size pipes are you using for your suction and returns for your pool and spa?

@mas985

Sorry, forgot to mention that. The returns are all 2", the suction are all 3" back to the pad and then reduce to 2.5" (for the Pentair valves).

Also, there are 2 pumps. One for circulation and another for water features. So, for the returns, that's all that pump is doing.

 

[ajw22]

My vote is you are overthinking it. Do whatever elbows or 45s you need to navigate your run.

 

[jsteve17]

My vote is you are overthinking it. Do whatever elbows or 45s you need to navigate your run.

Thank you!