New (+1st timer) Pool Build - North DFW

TampaKathy

Gold Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
580
Tampa, FL
Pressure test tomorrow or Wednesday.

Start up guy added chlorine and cya for first time today. Here are my numbers a few hours after he left - PoolMath Logs

FC I measured at 15.5 on a drop test. No or 0.5cc. The Taylor 3 way shows orange for CL. Is this okay?! Should I do anything tonight. I take over on Wednesday so 2 more visits from him.
15.5 on FC?! What does the start up guide say it should be or is there a reason it's that high?
 

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
2,779
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I would not let your pH drop below 7. That is causing your CSI to be really negative. So let the pH creep up via aeration.
It may take a day or 2 after the additions of stabilizer for your CYA to register in your test. Your FC will come down naturally.
Test daily to monitor the changes. Is your CH staying at 325ppm?
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
15.5 on FC?! What does the start up guide say it should be or is there a reason it's that high?

I haven’t talked to him yet. He added chlorine without CYA twice last week but both times I tested later that evening I couldn’t measure any chlorine. So not sure if he just dumped a lot more in today to try and get a reading or the CYA add is throwing things off. I also haven’t really been reading much if any CCs so not sure why he’d try to shock it already. Especially with how cold it is.

Test daily to monitor the changes. Is your CH staying at 325ppm?

Nah it’s dropping slowly because still having to add water due to leak. I’ve added more calcium once to compensate and will probably add more later this week. If I’d guess it’s probably around 300 now, but probably not below yet.
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Pool guy hasent shown up today yet, I’m guessing so far that perhaps he got his days wrong and yesterday was really his last day (14 day startup Tuesday to Monday). Waiting on confirmation from builder.

If so, I’ll take over chemicals tonight and get this on track. Chlorine dropped from about 14 to 11 today. Should I let it go tomorrow to drop some more? I have a bottle of SC-1000 which I know would both neutralize FC, as well as help reattach to any metals in the pool that the high chlorine would’ve brought out. But if we have a sunny day tomorrow I’m guessing that the FC will be close to normal.

How off will my TA test be at this chlorine level?

I’ll plan on borax tonight to get pH back up, as well as calcium as that continues to drop due to water leak.

Plumbers came out today and the pressure test actually held steady with rubber stoppers in the returns, but dropped when they used threaded caps. So their assessment is the leak is in the threaded PvC fittings on the returns, which the now famous plaster company installed. They’re thinking under water epoxy / putty to fix. Thoughts? They singled out a single return that’s culprit for most of the pressure drop, but suggested to patch them all. But plaster company has to come out to do it and probably dive/dye test again.

My FIL who’s a retired pool builder from the 70s-80s wants to come by and put dye on the returns himself as he’s not convinced that’s the cause of the leak. 🤷‍♂️
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Hey all...might need some help directing this question to the right people: Does the following story mean I have a potential bond/electrical problem?

I noticed today while I was checking pool levels and such that every time I walked over to the pool ledge to empty out my test tubes I'd get a little "static shock" from the pool water. Upon some experimentation, this seems to only happen in one specific area in the pool (you might even have to be standing on a specific coping tile - trying to determine for sure) and also seems to only happen if you build up some "static electricity" ... as in drag your feet across the ground. I tried doing this in other areas around the pool and didn't seem to happen. I also haven't noticed this before today, but my routine wasn't really any different - in fact I typically go to this same spot in the pool to empty out / rinse test tubes.

My wife was also able to replicate.

Now, the pool is brand new mind you and the bond wire was inspected. I remember visually checking the bonding wire myself - it went all around the gunite shell with several anchor points, and back to the equipment pad and attached to each piece of equipment. I remember confirming the bond wire with the project manager, and the inspector when he came out. That doesn't mean there's not a bond problem, I'd just be surprised if there was. I don't know how the water gets bonded - I think I see the water bond at the equipment pad - there looks to be a small wire leading to what looks like potentially a metal probe that goes into a PVC pipe. Has to be either a water bond or a temperature probe. This wire goes back to the OmniPL box though, so might just be a thermometer. Edit: yeah, it's just the Omni PL thermometer that I'm seeing

I'm a "novice" when it comes to electricity, but since this "shock" only appears to happen when I build up some static electricity, I believe this problem means that there's probably not a voltage leak elsewhere, but that it could be a bonding problem?

The area of the pool this seems to happen is near the light niche that was damaged and replaced. I ASSUME the new light niche was bonded (if it's supposed to be) - the electricians were the ones that installed the new light niche and it was one of their more senior people doing the work. But I didn't check myself, and I don't even know if the niches are supposed to be bonded themselves or not...since they're all plastic.

Lastly, I did take a multimeter and tried attaching one end to the ground, as well as the metal hide lids, and the other into the water. I would get around 0.1v but not consistent...jump around. 0.1v was the peak. But clear increase in voltage anytime it touched water. But not sure if this is just interference?

Happens regardless if lights are on or off. Haven't experimented with rest of equipment yet.

Is this a valid concern, or am I just going paranoid due to the myriad of other problems we've had?
 
Last edited:

HermanTX

Gold Supporter
May 20, 2020
2,779
Katy TX
Pool Size
14600
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
in fact I typically go to this same spot in the pool to empty out / rinse test tubes.
I let others address the bonding issue, but I would recommend that you do not dispose of your test reagents back in the pool. Can you not dump in a old plastic container and then dispose of in a drain?
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
I let others address the bonding issue, but I would recommend that you do not dispose of your test reagents back in the pool. Can you not dump in a old plastic container and then dispose of in a drain?
Got it. Was Only doing that cuz both the startup guy and the orenda tech that came out that’s how they disposed of their reagents. I can totally dump somewhere else. Didn’t know it’d be a problem.
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,608
NY
The only one you have to be concerned with is the salt test which uses silver nitrate. You don’t want that in the pool and it will stain your hands or anything else if spilled. The rest of them are mostly harmless, but still. A nearby bush or a drain is plenty easy enough to find to dump them.
 

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convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Talked to the new PM about the static shock. He was pretty dumb founded lol. Two grown men dragging their feet around the pool touching the water to try and figure it out. He’s going to talk to their electrician and see if it means anything. But we don’t think it does at this point. I’ve been able to figure out it will happen anywhere around the pool and not just in the one spot like I originally thought. If anyone wants to conduct a science experiment for me….put on some comfy sweats and fuzzy slippers with rubber soles and fresh dryer socks and see if you can get your pool water to shock you! 🙃

The PM also told me that they include starting up the salt cell, the purchase of salt, and adding salt for me at the 30 day mark. I’ll probably let them do this since it saves me some $$ but will want to double check their math on how much salt they’re adding.

Plaster is supposed to be here today to fix leaks…we shall see if that happens.

Oh here’s something I haven’t asked y’all about yet. These HIDE skimmer lids - I also got one for the autofill. Unfortunately, the HIDE lid is a lot thicker then the lid the autofill was designed for, and I can’t adjust the float valve up high enough to keep the water at the right height because it runs into the lid. It’s a pool miser autofill which uses what looks like a generic toilet fill valve. I’m going to try and swap out the generic float valve with a Korky long life valve as it appears the water line is about an inch closer to the top of the unit…so it should provide just the clearance to keep the water at the right height. I didn’t know if I’d have any problems doing this…
 

Turbo1Ton

Gold Supporter
Dec 26, 2019
875
NE Oklahoma
Pool Size
14500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The valve used in the pool miser does not have the bowl fill line on it. I would think you could just plug that line or run it down into the can but it might cause issues, not sure.

--Jeff
 

Newdude

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jun 16, 2019
11,608
NY
I’ll probably let them do this since it saves me some $$ but will want to double check their math on how much salt they’re adding.
Great catch !!! The pool store machine is so-so measuring salt. Strips are worse. *If* they even check it before they start adding. We had a member in the spring be 600 ppm from startup alone.

So know your start point near the 30 day mark and let pool math figure out the difference. (y)
 

KCNM

Silver Supporter
May 20, 2021
235
Tampa Bay, FL
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Pool Math shows 319 ppm salt for every 40# bag for 15k gallons. You want to shoot for around 3000 ppm, so that's about 9.4 bags. So they should show up with 10 40# bags. I would have them add 9 bags, then test the level after a couple days. (Or 8 bags if you think you're pool sizing is overstated...) Then use Pool Math to reverse calculate how much you actually gained from the 9 bags to determine how much of the last bag to add.
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Thanks for the salt advice. I have some Taylor strips I a bought from tftestkits a while back. Is it worth it getting a drop test? Still haven’t spent my Gold Supporter coupons so totally can pick those up if worth it 😅

Also the putty on the returns did nothing. Still dropping just as much. Based on the amount of water that’s leaving daily there has to be a major bust somewhere. They haven’t pressure tested the main drains yet so i will probably push them to do that. I will occasionally see air bubbles (big and small) in the pump. If I leave the pump running for a long time they typically go away. Consistent air here would be a sign of a suction side leak yeah?
 

KCNM

Silver Supporter
May 20, 2021
235
Tampa Bay, FL
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
I would 100% get the drop test. I got the drop test and added the strips from TF Test Kits, and I find the strips worthless to me. I'm sure it's user error, but I just don't get them. I end up with each square having different colors between the edges and the center, matching different levels... And even if you do figure them out, the granularity is 1000 ppm. The drops give you an exact amount at 200 ppm per drop.

Yes, air in the pump is 100% suction side. I had to get one of those fixed on my build. Here's a video I had found while troubleshooting mine that shows exactly what it looks like:


It does not take a big leak to get to the amount of air you see in that pump. Mine was so small they couldn't even find the leak on sonar and had to just trench the pipe until they found the wet spot. If you are only getting a few bubbles, check the skimmer. Given that you have a leak, the pump can pull air down the skimmer like a bath tub drain if the water level is not high enough to prevent that.
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
Skimmers were pressure tested unless the leak is in the skimmer box but they both look pretty good. The air in the pump is not consistent….some of the time there’s no air, sometimes there’s small air bubbles, sometimes there’s a big air bubble. But nothing like in that video you linked to. Also the water continues to drop even with the pump off.
 

KCNM

Silver Supporter
May 20, 2021
235
Tampa Bay, FL
Pool Size
10000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Truclear / Ei
Skimmers were pressure tested unless the leak is in the skimmer box but they both look pretty good. The air in the pump is not consistent….some of the time there’s no air, sometimes there’s small air bubbles, sometimes there’s a big air bubble. But nothing like in that video you linked to. Also the water continues to drop even with the pump off.
It's not about the skimmer having a crack or leak. Again, it's like when a bathtub is draining. At first, the water just gradually drops. But once the water level gets low enough, it creates a vortex that sucks down air as well as water into the drain.

In the case of a pool, this effect is augmented by the pump. The suction from the pump into the skimmer can induce air vortices at a much higher water level than you might think. And even if you don't see a permanent vortex, it can still be pulling in air through small temporary vortices. The easiest way to see that would be to get underwater with a mask and watch for air bubbles being pulled into the skimmer line.
 

Cena_sea

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
97
Northern California
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
I don’t have a Hide cover but something similar at 2 inch thickness w/o issue for auto fill. But I looked at hide and it comes in different and slimmer widths so maybe you can exchange for a thinner cover
 

convan23

Gold Supporter
Sep 27, 2020
159
DFW
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Turbo Cell (T-CELL-5)
I don’t have a Hide cover but something similar at 2 inch thickness w/o issue for auto fill. But I looked at hide and it comes in different and slimmer widths so maybe you can exchange for a thinner cover

I talked to someone at HIDE and they said that concrete decking always varies due to how they slope the deck. Sometimes there’s room, sometimes there’s not. The thinner lids aren’t recommended for concrete.

However, I installed a Korky valve inside of my poolmiser and I can adjust it plenty high. So I’ll try this and see how it goes.
 

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