Need Refurbish Hybrid Pool Help

[SHOdiver]

After deep-diving (pun intended cementing the sidewalls like sktn77a, I decided this fix would not be practical for me for two reasons: 1. Indoor pool with very limited access and recently refiinished floors 2. Gunite pool builders are few and far between in my area, with no one willing to get involved. I have a friend who's in the cement business and he stated that most people putting in new outdoor pools are doing the fiberglass shell pool, and he just does the walkway on the perimeters.
Plan B is now in action, and I called Joe from Mid-America. They are fluent in hybrid/fiberglass wall pools and fiberglassing a layer inside the entire pool is what they do every day.
I would be glad to document each step on this site, but would like to hear if anyone else is interested. Otherwise, I would like to thank all who helped me to understand my pool, and will make the decision for a temporary, or more permanent fix soon, based on my new knowledge.
Thanks again to all!
SHOdiver

 

[sktn77a]

1.So you would definitely go with the concrete walls rather than the fiberglass interior or the liner?
2. Is there a reason you tore out the fiberglass walls, instead of using them as a form in the back of the gunite?
3. What did the area behind the fiberglass walls look like?
4. In your photo where the gunite is being sprayed, there are two men holding a 2x10 sheet of (plywood?) Is this to prevent overspray?
5. I have two return hoses, steps, and a skimmer in the first three feet of pool the walls occupy. Can you recommend a process or give thoughts for each?

1. Well, it depends on what's available and your budget. My first thought was the liner but I heard all sorts of excuses why they couldn't do this (most of them a combination of laziness and incompetence on the part of pool companies in my area). Then I wanted to fiberglass all over the interior surface but couldn't get a definitive answer from east coast - I think they were just too busy. So I eventually found someone to gunite the pool and went that way.
2. They just cut down about 12" and used the remaining 2' as a form.
3. just fill dirt
4. yes, just to stop overspray.
5. hard to tell without seeing them

If you can get the fiberglass option, that should be good for another 15 years. Just make sure they are meticulous with the prep. Please do post detailed follow-ups. There are hundreds (thousands?) of these hybrid nightmare pools out there and most people will be looking to renovate them by now.

Good luck!

 

[SHOdiver]

Mid-America is the way I have decided to go. Hybrid pools were spoken fluently by my contact Joe, who is a project manager for Mid-America.
Upon signing the contract (pending) we will be scheduled for a complete rehab, which will likely be scheduled for mid-February since we are an indoor pool. They will send a crew-chief with a crew of 3 skilled people from KC, and they will stay at a nearby hotel when working on my pool. They do not use any outside contractors. My contacts are the crew chief and Joe through the duration of the process. Each pool price is different depending on the condition. My pool is 30 years old but appears like a 3-5 year old pool. Wall leaks are my only problem, and since I drained 1 1/2ft of water out, I'm losing less water to leaks each day. Being indoors, tramp water can never be a good thing, because you don't know where it is going. I feel an urgency to get this fixed for that reason.
There's a large option selection. We chose the white floor and walls (colors would have added 5k) remove and replace the tiles at the waterline (ours are stained and decomposing) fill in all seams between the panels, and remove and repair blistering. The same finish (think fiberglass boat) will appear on the walls and gunite floor, and is comparable in appearance to a high-end full gunite pool. 25 year guarantee on parts and labor, and they do all of the repairs if repairs are necessary.
My price total will be 43k, and it will be paid in two checks. One during the process, and one upon a satisfactory completion. My pool and pool house would cost 25k to duplicate, so I consider 40-50k to be a bargain to give me the same pool, only nicer and guaranteed not to leak.
Thanks again to Keith, my best consultant for this decision. I will update this thread as things progress.
SHOdiver

 

[SHOdiver]

Mid-America is the way I have decided to go. Hybrid pools were spoken fluently by my contact Joe, who is a project manager for Mid-America.
Upon signing the contract (pending) we will be scheduled for a complete rehab, which will likely be scheduled for mid-February since we are an indoor pool. They will send a crew-chief with a crew of 3 skilled people from KC, and they will stay at a nearby hotel when working on my pool. They do not use any outside contractors. My contacts are the crew chief and Joe through the duration of the process. Each pool price is different depending on the condition. My pool is 30 years old but appears like a 3-5 year old pool. Wall leaks are my only problem, and since I drained 1 1/2ft of water out, I'm losing less water to leaks each day. Being indoors, tramp water can never be a good thing, because you don't know where it is going. I feel an urgency to get this fixed for that reason.
There's a large option selection. We chose the white floor and walls (colors would have added 5k) remove and replace the tiles at the waterline (ours are stained and decomposing) fill in all seams between the panels, and remove and repair blistering. The same finish (think fiberglass boat) will appear on the walls and gunite floor, and is comparable in appearance to a high-end full gunite pool. 25 year guarantee on parts and labor, and they do all of the repairs if repairs are necessary.
My price total will be 43k, and it will be paid in two checks. One during the process, and one upon a satisfactory completion. My pool and pool house would cost 25k to duplicate, so I consider 40-50k to be a bargain to give me the same pool, only nicer and guaranteed not to leak.
Thanks again to Keith, my best consultant for this decision. I will update this thread as things progress.
SHOdiver

$250,000 to duplicate my pool and pool house. Typo above

 

[sktn77a]

Wow, that's not cheap ($45k). But I guess its a pretty complex job being indoors and all. And you've got travel and room & board expenses.

Keep us updated.

 

[SHOdiver]

Update time. Flew back to Ohio yesterday and bought a Wayne submersible pump from Home Depot for $98. This morning the water is down to about 3" above the step for the fiberglass walls, which is 3ft down from the floor. With the waterline down, I can easily see the blisters which were not obvious with the water in the pool. There are ALOT of blisters, about 1-2" in diameter and averaging 1ft apart. Literally hundreds of blisters! I'm no longer wondering where the leak was, and I'm happy to be the pioneer on this forum for doing the inter-glass system. sktn77a already did the cement thesis. BTW, I would have followed his fix to the tee if my pool was not indoors, which makes cement work almost impossible.

 

[Newdude]

I always say that with each new member the collective hive gets smarter/stronger. Thanks for joining and bringing your project/ideas to our table. Your story will in turn help others down the road.

 

[SHOdiver]

some before photos

 

[SHOdiver]

more before photos. I have a new phone and am not entirely sure of the best way to post these.

 

[SHOdiver]

If the tile comes in, and the weather between Ohio and Kansas is okay, the pool is scheduled to be refurbed the week of March 8th.

 

[SHOdiver]

link to above photos
Pool

 

[sktn77a]

Wow, that could have been my pool! Looking forward to the March update!

 

[SHOdiver]

Mid-America called to say they have an opening to start Wednesday, the 9th. Mainly due to the cold and my pool being indoors. Will fly home Sunday to be there and take photos. Can't wait.

 

[SHOdiver]

Mid-America techs arrived today. Tile is remove and a plastic bubble is going up to protect the room from some very nasty old epoxy paint removal. I was told there were two coats of epoxy on the gunite and a different type of paint on the fiberglass walls. Originally, I did not know if my pool walls and floor were painted, but now know they are. It will cost $4400 and add three days to the process. The new material will not stick to old paint.
They will work every day until the job is complete.

 

[SHOdiver]

I was worried about the 30 year old natural stone tile coming off of the fiberglass wall. The tile was shabby looking. Some individual tiles were still solid and shiny, while others were flaking off and deteriorated, leaving stone fragments on the bottom of the pool. My fear was that the tile would tear off the surface of the fiberglass wall leaving a re-install nightmare for the techs. 95% of what I worry about never happens, as is the case here. Old tiles were removed from the entire pool wall in about a half hour, and the cement left on the wall will come off relatively easy, leaving a straight, solid wall for the new tile. The new tile will be flush with the new wall, not sticking out like the old tile, leaving a very professional looking surface. Tile will be added to the steps, also flush with the new fiberglass surface (like a shiny fiberglass boat). Note how the waterline bled through the old tile.

 

[sktn77a]

I'm sure they've worked on pools much worse than yours! You can ask them what happens if the old tile pulls off some of the fiberglass finish. I suspect they will just say nothing - they encounter this all the time and the new surface will be fine to tile on top of.

Keep an eye on it but I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[SHOdiver]

When old paint must be removed from your hybrid, there is ALOT of dust, which is no problem in an outdoor pool. Foreman Eric is thorough and careful with our indoor pool room. They worked under this 'tent' for five hours grinding two layers of old epoxy paint yesterday. Today, they expect to finish paint removal and start to place tiles, which will be flush with the new, layered, fiberglass pool surface.

 

[kolczk]

Have any of the Hybrid pool owners with leaky walls used, or received a quote from Mid-America Pool Renovation. I am considering calling them regarding my 30 year old, slow leakinig fiberglass walls. Any input is welcome!
SHOdiver

Really sorry I'm late to the party on this one and you already have info. I am in a similar situation with trying to refurb a hybrid pool in Chicagoland. Mid America was insanely expensive. After all was said and done it was going to cost me 40+k to have the work done. They make you also pay lodging for their guys when they are staying to do the work.

It was not really an option for me since that's almost the cost of just having a new pool installed.

 

[SHOdiver]

Really sorry I'm late to the party on this one and you already have info. I am in a similar situation with trying to refurb a hybrid pool in Chicagoland. Mid America was insanely expensive. After all was said and done it was going to cost me 40+k to have the work done. They make you also pay lodging for their guys when they are staying to do the work.

It was not really an option for me since that's almost the cost of just having a new pool installed.

Expensive, yes. But with my pool indoors, it was either going to be an asset or a liability. A new pool and pool house with tearback starts at $250,000.00. $40k sounds like a bargain for me. If it was an outdoor pool, I would agree with you that a tearout and new pool, or adding in cement walls, may be more economical. But will the new pool carry a 25 year warranty? (like I should live so long!)

 

[SHOdiver]

Bottom is down to cement and walls were roughed up for good adhesion of the new fiberglass material layers.