Need opinions, please!

[dz1rfj]

I have a pool guy giving me the run around, and need some help!

On 6/30, we had a party for my sons birthday. 60 kids were in and out of the pool. My liner is two years old, sand not changed since we moved in ~4 Years ago. Before that, who knows when it was changed.

We have always had an easy time , shocking weekly, putting in 4 tablets each week. My pool store told me to cutback on chlorine, from 4 tablets to two per week (my chlorinator adjuster was broken, so it would not regulate.

Then...we had the party, some pretty hard rains, the chlorine got too low, and now we have a green dust on the bottom of the pool. I put shock directly into the skimmer to blast any algea out, and this might have been a mistake, perhaps that caused the green dust to go to the pool and spread... I am not very knowledgable in pool chemistry, so looking for some help here.

The pool store hates my zodiac baracuda vacuum, and told me to keep it out of the water, but to manually vacuum to waste, which we started today, as water levels permit, then we fill and repeat. So, I called the dealer who installed the new liner, and he told me, if your pool is green, you have a chemical problem. He described it as more of a chemical residue than an algae. This guy, Johnny, very nice, also told me that chemical residue is so small, the sand, DE, or any filter will not catch it, and it goes back into the pool. Is that true of filters with new sand too?

I have attached two pictures, one of the most recent chemical readings by my store, and a picture of the pool.

I know I need to change the sand, my pool store guy wants to wait untill winter, so I am calling a different guy. My pool store guy sent two guys out to vacuum today, and sent them away saying they cant vacuum untill they can see the bottom of the pool. By the way, I replaced the broken Chlorinator today, as it sprung a leak.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[tim5055]

Welcome to TFP!!

Well, as with most folks who show up here you are getting poor advice with a sparkling of good advice tossed in.

First, whoever said this was not a filtration problem, but a chemical problem is right. No need to change the sand, it doesn't wear out.

You need the correct amount of chlorine and filtration. Plus, you need ot stop with the solid chlorine (tabs and shock) as they raise the stabilizer/CYA level of the pool.

While it may seem like it, I will tell you, it didn't turn green overnight and it will take time to clear. But, we can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that way for a lot less money than the pool store.

Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit. Order a TF100 and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

While you wait for it to get delivered, you have a homework reading assignment. Start with ABCs of Water Chemistry and Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis

 

[dz1rfj]

Thanks Tim, for the advice.

I will order a test kit, and read those articles. Reading your equip. list, I am a bit envious. I have what is known as a Medallion pool in our area, single return, single skimmer, no main drain, pool is from 2001, and they are selling now for $~15K, Think its time to build a proper pool with multiple skimmers, main drain ,etc.

What are your thoughts about a sand filter as a pre filter to a Cartridge or DE filter ? Overkill?

Thanks again for the advice.

Welcome to TFP!!

Well, as with most folks who show up here you are getting poor advice with a sparkling of good advice tossed in.

First, whoever said this was not a filtration problem, but a chemical problem is right. No need to change the sand, it doesn't wear out.

You need the correct amount of chlorine and filtration. Plus, you need ot stop with the solid chlorine (tabs and shock) as they raise the stabilizer/CYA level of the pool.

While it may seem like it, I will tell you, it didn't turn green overnight and it will take time to clear. But, we can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that way for a lot less money than the pool store.

Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit. Order a TF100 and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

While you wait for it to get delivered, you have a homework reading assignment. Start with ABCs of Water Chemistry and Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis

 

[tim5055]

What are your thoughts about a sand filter as a pre filter to a Cartridge or DE filter ? Overkill?

Overkill

 

[dz1rfj]

Homework began , read the articles, changed my filter to a 300 pound Hayward 244t, a bit oversized for my 16,300 gallon pool. Vacuumed to wast with the old filter in place, made some decent progress. Shut down to do the filter change for 24 hours. New filter installed, vacuumed to waste until water became too low, then switched to filter.

It appears I have living algae as it got a bit greener. So, I have read that chlorine tabs increase the cya level, requiring more and more chlorine to kill the algae. I used liquid bleach tonight, and running the pool vacuum head upside down in the deep end to draw water from the bottom of my non main drain pool.

Let's see how this works tomorrow.

A question, if too much CYA is bad, and if using liquid chlorine/bleach has no stabilizer, would using maybe 1 tablet in the chlorinator on a low setting adding a little bit of stabilizer in conjunction with liquid chlorine, be beneficial to keep the cya protection at a very low level to protect the liquid chlorine during sunlight ?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[mknauss]

See post #2. You need to purchase a proper test kit and perform a SLAM. Adding more CYA with solid chlorine tablets when you may have sky high CYA makes no sense.

Please get a test kit (TF100 or K2006C) and post your test results here.

Take care

 

[Akathisia]

Thanks Tim, for the advice.

I will order a test kit...

Thanks again for the advice.

Wait, no test kit yet?

 

[Sidecarist]

First don't be intimidated by a test kit. Get it ASAP it's not hard to use, and will give you consistent testing and reliable results. Those results will guide you in the right direction using what you learn from Pool School and using the Pool Math page.

Vacuuming to waste is still helpful because you are replacing some of the pool water every time, that reduces your CYA. Keep up using Liquid Bleach rather than any form of solid chlorine. In the future IF you need to add CYA do it as a stand alone product, not part of tabs or shock. Doing it this way puts you in control of the amount. When I do add CYA to my pool I add 2/3 of the dose I think I need then wait two days to test for it. It takes time to fully dissolve. Use the sock method too, don't just dump it in.

Get that test kit and then post your results here, some of the most helpful folks ever! They got me from a swamp, to an easy to maintain CLEAN pool in just a few weeks. Now I don't waste time on the pool store, I spend it enjoying my pool.

Good Luck!

 

[Teald024]

Homework began , read the articles, changed my filter to a 300 pound Hayward 244t, a bit oversized for my 16,300 gallon pool. Vacuumed to wast with the old filter in place, made some decent progress. Shut down to do the filter change for 24 hours. New filter installed, vacuumed to waste until water became too low, then switched to filter.

It appears I have living algae as it got a bit greener. So, I have read that chlorine tabs increase the cya level, requiring more and more chlorine to kill the algae. I used liquid bleach tonight, and running the pool vacuum head upside down in the deep end to draw water from the bottom of my non main drain pool.

Let's see how this works tomorrow.

A question, if too much CYA is bad, and if using liquid chlorine/bleach has no stabilizer, would using maybe 1 tablet in the chlorinator on a low setting adding a little bit of stabilizer in conjunction with liquid chlorine, be beneficial to keep the cya protection at a very low level to protect the liquid chlorine during sunlight ?

Thanks,

Brian

Your filter wasn't the issue and a new one won't fix your algae issue. You need chlorine, in the form of bleach. Your pool will continue to get greener until it turns black if you don't add enough chlorine to kill the algae. We use the SLAM process to elevate chlorine levels and maintain them there until the algae is gone and you pass the criteria to stop.

The issue with CYA (stabilizer) is that it never goes away until you drain your water. All the tabs and shock you used added CYA (stabilizer). Even though the bleach doesn't have any stabilizer (CYA) in it, there is still plenty, too much actually, stabilizer (CYA) in your pool. The chlorine gets used up, but the stabilizer is still there. You don't need to keep adding stabilizer (CYA). Don't add any solid chlorine products to your pool. This will only make things (CYA) worse.

Also, if you could Edit your signature , to include your pool and equipment details, it would help us, help you better.

 

[harleysilo]

We need the CYA test results to help accurately. Larger filter may allow for reduced pump run time.

 

[dz1rfj]

Your filter wasn't the issue and a new one won't fix your algae issue. You need chlorine, in the form of bleach. Your pool will continue to get greener until it turns black if you don't add enough chlorine to kill the algae. We use the SLAM process to elevate chlorine levels and maintain them there until the algae is gone and you pass the criteria to stop.

The issue with CYA (stabilizer) is that it never goes away until you drain your water. All the tabs and shock you used added CYA (stabilizer). Even though the bleach doesn't have any stabilizer (CYA) in it, there is still plenty, too much actually, stabilizer (CYA) in your pool. The chlorine gets used up, but the stabilizer is still there. You don't need to keep adding stabilizer (CYA). Don't add any solid chlorine products to your pool. This will only make things (CYA) worse.

Also, if you could Edit your signature , to include your pool and equipment details, it would help us, help you better.

Dave - Thanks for the tip on the signature, hopefully added all the relevant items..

I now have a CLEAR pool! I put the liquid chlorine in, ran it a day, floc'd it yesterday, vacuumed to waste, and looks great.

As I await delivery of my Taylor test kit, I had the pool store run its computerized analysis today:

CYA=145, FC=11.2, TC=17.4 If I understand what I have read here at TFP, I cannot worry too much about other numbers until I get the chlorine in check. Do you all agree? PH shows 8.6 and TA shows 59

I have stopped the solid tablets, thanks everyone for that advice.

So if CYA helps stabilize chlorine, and mine will not go down unless I replace water, does that mean my liquid chlorine will be protected as long as my CYA is a certain number, and if so, should I try to get down to a CYA of 80 as a starting point from 145 ?

Very grateful I found this site last week, and for all the advice. I cant wait to see my test results vs the pool stores.

 

[Teald024]

The signature looks good. Great to hear you ordered a test kit. We don't really trust the PS tests. Once you get your shiny new kit, run all the tests and post them here. Then we can offer quality advice.

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temp

We can't trust the pH value because the FC is above 10ppm thus invalidating the pH test.

You are right about the CYA. If accurate it is very high and will require replacing a good portion of your water. For a non SWG pool, we recommend 30-50ppm of CYA. How much sun does your pool see a day? Any shade/ full sun/ something in between?
You put this in perspective, with a CYA of 145, the SLAM level of FC is 58ppm and a daily maintenance FC level of around 16ppm (min of 11ppm FC).


I wouldn't make any chemical adjustments until you personally run the tests with the Taylor kit.

While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, continue to add bleach and brush often. Backwash when/if filter pressure goes up 25%. And no other chemicals besides bleach!!

 

[dz1rfj]

The signature looks good. Great to hear you ordered a test kit. We don't really trust the PS tests. Once you get your shiny new kit, run all the tests and post them here. Then we can offer quality advice.

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water temp

We can't trust the pH value because the FC is above 10ppm thus invalidating the pH test.

You are right about the CYA. If accurate it is very high and will require replacing a good portion of your water. For a non SWG pool, we recommend 30-50ppm of CYA. How much sun does your pool see a day? Any shade/ full sun/ something in between?
You put this in perspective, with a CYA of 145, the SLAM level of FC is 58ppm and a daily maintenance FC level of around 16ppm (min of 11ppm FC).


I wouldn't make any chemical adjustments until you personally run the tests with the Taylor kit.

While you are waiting for the test kit to arrive, continue to add bleach and brush often. Backwash when/if filter pressure goes up 25%. And no other chemicals besides bleach!!

Dave -

I get about 7 hours of FULL sun per day.

 

[Teald024]

Dave -

I get about 7 hours of FULL sun per day.

A CYA of 40 would be your target then.