Doesnt matter on orientation really. Adding a waterfall return isn't worth it if your teying to solve this problem. The aeration will drive up your PH all the time using it that way. How old is the filter and has it ever been deep ceaned? On older pools I have seen the main drain and skimmer on a T below the skimmer. If you had that setup you would never be able to vacuum the pool manually. If you are sure you have no leaks or blockage save the 500 bucks and add 250 to that and get a dolphin robot from marina pool and spa. As for the vs pump a full size moves twice the water as the current pump does and any sketchy old plumbing connections could be damaged with just a single return. You can set max rpm lower but you need 2500+ to get full prime.
Need Input!
- Thread starter sprewitt38
- Start date
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,687
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thanks Jimmy, that clears up a lot. Especially about her being careful with that VS pump with just the one return.
Thank you for the advice. The filter was purchased in 2018. New tile and marcite in 2017. 2hp vs pump (not installed)
How does the sand look inside? Sometimes backwashimg isn't enough if theres plaster dust or after algae breakouts. Just rule out the obvious. Asking because you stated after backwash things improved
Honestly had not checked. Was told the filter should be fine. We also went with the more expensive sand vs the other stuff. Yes the pump gets probably 98% full prime after the filter is backflushed. I want to say the guy checked the filter through the "recycle?" Part on the filter. I dont recall the exact outcome but was told it's not the filter ... ?
So I just left pinch a penny picking up the Jandy 3 way valve. The gentleman asked what I was doing with it so I explained. Of course he seemed shocked and thought he could come out and diagnose my lack of suction or how to clean the pool with a automatic vacuum. So after messing around with it, he said essentially they are tied into each other. When a vacuum is connected to the skimmer the pressure is just pushed into the main drain. He thought closing off the main drain may put too much pressure through the lines. He said if it were him "just turn your return into a wall suction"
He said dig up the suction line at the pump and dig up the return line at the pump. Put a valve into the suction side to be able to either have the skimmer/main drain or the wall suction on. Then run the line I was going to run to the rock waterfall and put a splitter or T on that line (have it separated into 2 lines. Run one up the fountain and run the other underneath the fountain so I don't have a massive amount of water coming from the Rock. He checked the pump out and said just program it prior to turning it on. I was under the impression you couldn't program it until it was turned on. He said no it can be done before.
Would this work???
My thoughts: I was already planning to run the 2nd return line to the fountain. (Kids 12 and 2 want a fountain
)
To put the valve I have on the suction side seems easy since I don't need to dig that much. I will be guaranteed to have suction because I will be able to partially close the main/skimmer side.
All this is contingent on double checking that the "flap piece" will fit into the return line inside the pool.
Hopefully this makes sense and I have it correct. What would you guys do?
Side note. When the pavers go in we are eliminating the large ledge around the pool, more crushed concrete and base! So the pool will be flush w the pavers.
He said dig up the suction line at the pump and dig up the return line at the pump. Put a valve into the suction side to be able to either have the skimmer/main drain or the wall suction on. Then run the line I was going to run to the rock waterfall and put a splitter or T on that line (have it separated into 2 lines. Run one up the fountain and run the other underneath the fountain so I don't have a massive amount of water coming from the Rock. He checked the pump out and said just program it prior to turning it on. I was under the impression you couldn't program it until it was turned on. He said no it can be done before.
Would this work???
My thoughts: I was already planning to run the 2nd return line to the fountain. (Kids 12 and 2 want a fountain
) To put the valve I have on the suction side seems easy since I don't need to dig that much. I will be guaranteed to have suction because I will be able to partially close the main/skimmer side.
All this is contingent on double checking that the "flap piece" will fit into the return line inside the pool.
Hopefully this makes sense and I have it correct. What would you guys do?
Side note. When the pavers go in we are eliminating the large ledge around the pool, more crushed concrete and base! So the pool will be flush w the pavers.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,687
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That's an interesting idea. Yes it would work. Yes you absolutely have to have the safety flap in place on what will be your new suction port. I don't like it as much as the idea I PM'd you, of digging up the skimmer and finding where the main tee's in and fixing it that way. But his idea is certainly less work.
Two returns on the falls is also interesting. I'd be tempted to run one into the water, over the edge of the coping. Then in one mode there is no water splashing onto the surface, which would help with the pH issue JimmyTheGreek mentions (which is real). Then you just turn on the falls when you and the kids wanted to enjoy them. It's a bit funky, but maybe the pipe running over the coping could be disguised well enough with rock?
Yes, the pump should be programmable before it starts moving water. And with these two new returns, I'd say that eliminates the concern about damaging the old return pipe (because it'll now be a suction pipe).
It doesn't solve for being unable to balance the suction between skimmer and drain. If your skimmer has been working well enough, then I guess you just leave well enough alone. Is digging up under the skimmer to find the tee even an option? If not, then I guess you go with this latest plan. None of it sounds irreversible, so if it doesn't work, you can revert some or all of it. The materials necessary are not that expensive, so we're only talking the labor involved...
Two returns on the falls is also interesting. I'd be tempted to run one into the water, over the edge of the coping. Then in one mode there is no water splashing onto the surface, which would help with the pH issue JimmyTheGreek mentions (which is real). Then you just turn on the falls when you and the kids wanted to enjoy them. It's a bit funky, but maybe the pipe running over the coping could be disguised well enough with rock?
Yes, the pump should be programmable before it starts moving water. And with these two new returns, I'd say that eliminates the concern about damaging the old return pipe (because it'll now be a suction pipe).
It doesn't solve for being unable to balance the suction between skimmer and drain. If your skimmer has been working well enough, then I guess you just leave well enough alone. Is digging up under the skimmer to find the tee even an option? If not, then I guess you go with this latest plan. None of it sounds irreversible, so if it doesn't work, you can revert some or all of it. The materials necessary are not that expensive, so we're only talking the labor involved...
Yes I planned on placing the other return under the rock. It has a lip on it so you would not see it at all. Is it ok to run it completely into the water? Or leave some out?
Merged threads - TFP Mod.
Hi everyone!
So long story short I am not able to vacuum my pool possibly due to the suction being forced into the main drain and having no way of turning off any of the main drain. I have had probably 10 "pool" professionals out and none can assist except one guy last week that suggested a crazy solution. I have 1 return, skimmer and main (suction together).
The current plan : switch the return to a wall suction, run the line to join the skimmer/main and put a 3 valve on it.
Run a return over the a fountain and one under the rock fountain with also a 3 way valve (so the rock/fountain can be on just for kids) line under the rock to circulate and become the new return line.
I understand this seems crazy but I have not had anyone else come up with any solution except "100k we can built you a new pool."
If for whatever reason this does not work I can always switch it back
Side note: new pavers are being installed new week.
My questions: what size PVC should be used ? (Switching out 1hp pump to 2 hp VS pump) Should I run these approx 6 ft away from the pool so they won't be under the pavers? Initially was planning to run 1 return with valve splitting at the fountain but not sure how I could hide that. Is it ok to run the lines seperate to the other end of the pool and have the valve at the equipment? Am I crazy?
3rd picture pavers are going out to the left of the white sewer line (opposite rock side)
Current PVC is 1 1/2.
Thank you!!
Samantha
Pool 22x15
Sand filter (replaced early 2019)
New marcite and tile (2018)
2 hp VS Jandy
Hi everyone!
So long story short I am not able to vacuum my pool possibly due to the suction being forced into the main drain and having no way of turning off any of the main drain. I have had probably 10 "pool" professionals out and none can assist except one guy last week that suggested a crazy solution. I have 1 return, skimmer and main (suction together).
The current plan : switch the return to a wall suction, run the line to join the skimmer/main and put a 3 valve on it.
Run a return over the a fountain and one under the rock fountain with also a 3 way valve (so the rock/fountain can be on just for kids) line under the rock to circulate and become the new return line.
I understand this seems crazy but I have not had anyone else come up with any solution except "100k we can built you a new pool."
If for whatever reason this does not work I can always switch it back
Side note: new pavers are being installed new week.
My questions: what size PVC should be used ? (Switching out 1hp pump to 2 hp VS pump) Should I run these approx 6 ft away from the pool so they won't be under the pavers? Initially was planning to run 1 return with valve splitting at the fountain but not sure how I could hide that. Is it ok to run the lines seperate to the other end of the pool and have the valve at the equipment? Am I crazy?
3rd picture pavers are going out to the left of the white sewer line (opposite rock side)
Current PVC is 1 1/2.
Thank you!!
Samantha
Pool 22x15
Sand filter (replaced early 2019)
New marcite and tile (2018)
2 hp VS Jandy
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Samantha,
What you say does not make a lot of sense to me, pool operation wise...
If you have 1 skimmer, and 1 pipe coming out of the ground, then your main drain is plumbed into the bottom of the skimmer..
I would not do what your last "pool guy" suggested.. He is a little more than Crazy ...
Before you add pavers or do anything else, let's see if we can get your pool running the way it should.
Show us a couple of pics of your skimmer with the basket removed.. I want to see what is there.
The very cheapest and easiest things to do is quit using 1960's technology to clean your pool.. Step up into this Century and buy a $700 pool cleaning robot like this..
Thanks,
Jim R.
What you say does not make a lot of sense to me, pool operation wise...
If you have 1 skimmer, and 1 pipe coming out of the ground, then your main drain is plumbed into the bottom of the skimmer..
I would not do what your last "pool guy" suggested.. He is a little more than Crazy ...
Before you add pavers or do anything else, let's see if we can get your pool running the way it should.
Show us a couple of pics of your skimmer with the basket removed.. I want to see what is there.
The very cheapest and easiest things to do is quit using 1960's technology to clean your pool.. Step up into this Century and buy a $700 pool cleaning robot like this..
Thanks,
Jim R.
I thought of just purchasing that vacuum and be done with the entire situation but I feel like its putting a bandaid over the issue. I came across a site that listed all the types of skimmers installed many years ago. I believe its the Sylvan skimmer.
Sylvan Pool Flex Pipe Skimmer Repair | InTheSwim Pool Blog
The issue with these is the black poly line they used. Adding in the fact that the home was treated for both termites and sub termites I'm afraid we may have a ticking time bomb under the pool. I think its best to have it repaired by a company. With that being said do I need to keep the main drain. If they used the same black poly to tie the main drain into the skimmer, I would imagine they would have to go under the pool to replace that line. Could the professionals just do anyway with the main drain? I'm in Florida, I know years ago they made it seem like the main was required for water level purposes. Im going to let them do it but I like to know the do's and dont's of a main drain.
These are imagines from myself attempting to locate the end of the mystery line that comes out next to the suction/pump.
Sylvan Pool Flex Pipe Skimmer Repair | InTheSwim Pool Blog
The issue with these is the black poly line they used. Adding in the fact that the home was treated for both termites and sub termites I'm afraid we may have a ticking time bomb under the pool. I think its best to have it repaired by a company. With that being said do I need to keep the main drain. If they used the same black poly to tie the main drain into the skimmer, I would imagine they would have to go under the pool to replace that line. Could the professionals just do anyway with the main drain? I'm in Florida, I know years ago they made it seem like the main was required for water level purposes. Im going to let them do it but I like to know the do's and dont's of a main drain.
These are imagines from myself attempting to locate the end of the mystery line that comes out next to the suction/pump.
Attachments
Samantha,
Most pools do not "need" a main drain for anything.. I have two rent house pools and neither of them have an operating main drain and they work just fine..
Assuming that your skimmer is somehow leaking or bad, I would replace the skimmer and just replumb from the new skimmer back to the equipment pad.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Most pools do not "need" a main drain for anything.. I have two rent house pools and neither of them have an operating main drain and they work just fine..
Assuming that your skimmer is somehow leaking or bad, I would replace the skimmer and just replumb from the new skimmer back to the equipment pad.
Thanks,
Jim R.